***update*** Computer questions on parts! Show off your computer skills:D

[harobikes333]

Alright I'm building a new computer for $1500 I've been looking up parts and learning about all this computer parts stuff now for a couple of months and I'm getting sick of it and I just want to get the computer built!


I'm not planning on OCing much at all and if I did I'd only OC @ stock voltage. O and I'm not going to OC at all until the three year warranty goes off the CPU....

Now, for my question:

I've been looking at ram and 512MB sticks seem cheaper.... Do you think I should go for 4 512MB sticks or two 1gig sticks? I'm just wondering if I'll need more than 2 gigs.. and if the computer would even be more effective past 2 gigs...

Any help would be appreciated

 

[Continuity28]

It really depends on what you use it for.

1GB is fine for most activities, including gaming and media work (encoding, etc).

2GB is becoming more common for certain games, and heavier tasks most would use a workstation PC for.

I'd advise against 4GB, not because I'm an overclocker, but simply because it won't offer you anything at this point.

I'd shoot for 2x 512MB or 2x 1GB depending on your uses.

 

[harobikes333]

Well I'm planning on playing some games.. so I thought mabe the 2 gigs would be a good idea...<0---Note: I don't even have any new games. My latest game I bought was Sims 1, and the expansion pack to play on my 800mhz processor computer that I'm using to post right now>_<.

Just so I don't look like I'm spamming the board could I ask another different question...? Here it goes...

What is the diff between these two cards@!!!!?:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130247

and

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130256

 

[Continuity28]

Originally posted by: harobikes333
Well I'm planning on playing some games.. so I thought mabe the 2 gigs would be a good idea...<0---Note: I don't even have any new games. My latest game I bought was Sims 1, and the expansion pack to play on my 800mhz processor computer that I'm using to post right now>_<.

Just so I don't look like I'm spamming the board could I ask another different question...? Here it goes...

What is the diff between these two cards@!!!!?:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130247

and

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130256

The second card is clocked faster in GPU and memory, it's also on sale.

2GB is very safe, even though it sounds like you'll only really use 1GB fully. Memory is relatively cheap, so I'd go with 2GB today. Keep in mind, a PC with 1GB can still be very close to top of the line today.

 

[harobikes333]

>_< I hate it when I don't state what I all ready know

Ok its clocked faster... but what does the.......

Ok thnx for the info I'll just get the one with the higher clock speed and thats on sale. Period.

 

[flipkc]

Originally posted by: harobikes333
>_< I hate it when I don't state what I all ready know

Ok its clocked faster... but what does the.......

Ok thnx for the info I'll just get the one with the higher clock speed and thats on sale. Period.

Great choice and good luck with your computer!

 

[harobikes333]

thanks alot I'm going to post a list of my picked parts once I figure out what CPU and mobo I'm gonna get.

I can't decide whether I should get the 3800 X2 or the Opteron 165

or the (Opteron 170<---Kinda is expensive thats all)

I don't plan on OCing past stock voltage and I don't plan on OCing until my computer starts to become out of date.

 

[ribbon13]

2x512MB means you'll either have a performance hit (4 sticks run at 2T) or two 512MB sticks to get rid of (because you want 2x1GB) if you ever want 2GB

I'd suggest getting one nice 1GB stick to start with. Dual-channel only doubles memory bandwidth, which won't be a big loss for an dual-core unless you're encoding/rendering as your primary task, which you aren't

 

[harobikes333]

Hey! Thank you for the reply!

If anyone would be so nice as to help me a little bit more I do have some more questions...:

Originally posted by: harobikes333
I can't decide whether I should get the 3800 X2 or the Opteron 165

or the (Opteron 170<---Kinda is expensive thats all)

I don't plan on OCing past stock voltage and I don't plan on OCing until my computer starts to become out of date.

Does anyone have a reccomendation? My budget is $1500 including a monitor

No need for OS though or keyboard or mouse and I can live without new speakers.

 

[imported_rod]

The main reason to go for the opterons is because they overclock alot better than normal X2's.

About the RAM: Go for the 2x1GB if you can afford it. RAM is getting so cheap these days anyway... And 2x1GB will be better than 2x512MB or 1x1GB.

RoD

 

[harobikes333]

Ok see well I'm trying to get a $1500 budget computer

Cpu= $300+ for the Opteron 165, which you can't get anywhere I thought...:?

Mobo=DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D ATX AMD Motherboard----10hr sale---$115

$45-$65 Case= Cool Master centurion 5or Centurion 5 but different...

$115 PSU=Seasonic S12-500 S12 Series 500W

$40 Optical Drive= NEC Black IDE DVD Burner Model ND-3540A - OEM

$220 after rebate Ram= OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Dual Channel Platinum System Memory<--Don't know what other ram to get:\ help? Please?

$111 HDD=Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 250GB 3.5" Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
^Don't know if I should buy a different HDD or buy from different store, is not on sale...

$356 Monitor= ViewSonic VX924 Black/Silver 19" 3ms gray-to-gray (avg.); 6ms white-black-white (typ)' LCD Monitor I don't really know what monitor to get

$319 Graphics Card=eVGA Geforce 7800GT 256-P2-N516<--Do I want this one or this one

Total= $1641<-- over my budget

Will anyone help me revise my list of parts:? Please.

 

[ribbon13]

Do you need front panel audio? If you don't you can still get a great case for $50 shipped

I'd suggest getting a cheap LCD and one stick of quality 1GB ram. You can get a nice LCD and run dual-monitor later, and you can always get a matching stick of ram later.

 

[harobikes333]

A cheap LCD...:? Don't you want a good monitor or else the thing will go to junk?

I'm mabe then looking for a good 1gig stick of ram for me but I donno which one to get:\ I've looked up timings and stuff and CAS, etc. and read very long guilds but I still can't decide

Is either case I put on my list though worth buying?

I don't think I'll every run dual monitor<==I have no need for two monitors:\ and I don't feel the need for two:\

I use my headphones alot but I also use my speakers too:\ so I donno I kinda would like a front one. But nothings perfect

 

[Googer]

Personaly I believe this is a betterPSU Sparkle PSU's are built like a tank.

Use http://labs.anandtech.com/ and might be able to find it for less.

My problem with that Seasonic Model is in the specificatoins:

• AC Input: 100-240V, 50/60 Hz
• Voltage Regulation: ±5% on all lines except -12V line ±10%

Problem #2 the 3.3volt and 5volt lines share one rail.

• 
  Good PSU's have separate rails for
  3.3v and 5v This Seasonic Does not-
  
• +3.3V: 30A / +5.0V: 30A
• +3.3V & +5.5V Combined: 180W

Problem #3 18A is not enough 12volt current to run most modern computers.

• +12V1: 18A / +12V2: 18A

Sparkle I belive has 5% or better on all rails.

PC Power and Cooling have much better regulation at 1% of the rated voltage. 10% is way too high, Intel and AMD only allow for a maximum of 5% over or under the rated voltage.



If you go with 4GB then you could edit 32bit windows BOOT.ini file and add the /nolowmem switch. Windows feels much snappier with it on, but only when 4GB is on the motherboad. My suggestion is to buy a few of these. Or just stick with 1GB, the performance will be about the same as 2gb you can always add more later for less money than what it costs today. Ribbon suggested this 1GB kit and it is a great deal



The Hard Drive is good but the Hitachi T7K250 250GB is cheaper and faster.
T7K250 PATA is slightly faster than SATA version.

The regular 7k250 is $20 cheaper and just as fast (or faster than) as the Seagate 7200.8 with more storage



Your monitor choice looks good.

Also it looks like your primary motive for building this PC is for games. Save some money and ditch the dual core. Even AMD admits that single core is a gamers best friend. A $275 AMD Athlon 3700+ with 1mb cache will be much faster than an opteron 165 in almost every task. Later when AMD 4800+ CPU's are less than $199 buy one, but untill then we should not over look the advantages of single core. Just remember that 99% of all software is not multi-threaded, so 1.8GHz will seem kind of slow compaired to 2.4GHz.


I have an NEC DVD Drive and it is a Piece of Sh*t. My plextor is much better: It's the Cadillac of Optical Drives.

Good choice of Graphics Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130256

 

[imported_rod]

Yeah, I dunno for sure, but you should be able to pick up a good PSU for cheaper than that.

RoD

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: Googer
Personaly I believe this is a betterPSU Sparkle PSU's are built like a tank.

Well, let's test your beliefs. (Edit: With the help of the PDF linked right there on newegg, even though when I wrote this post I found it from FSPs corporate page)

My problem with that Seasonic Model is in the specificatoins:

• AC Input: 100-240V, 50/60 Hz
• Voltage Regulation: ±5% on all lines except -12V line ±10%

Exactly... negative twelve. The FSP550PLG-SLI offers +9%/-4% load regulation on that rail, not too much different and totally moot since this rail doesn't need to have highly regulated power. Also, Seasonic's S12 offers 1% line regulation across all rails, while Fortron backs off to 2% on a the -12v and 5vsb

Problem #2 the 3.3volt and 5volt lines share one rail.

• 
  Good PSU's have separate rails for
  3.3v and 5v This Seasonic Does not-
  
• +3.3V: 30A / +5.0V: 30A
• +3.3V & +5.5V Combined: 180W

You're also incorrect here my friend. The FSP550PLG-SLI also uses a shared rail... only offering 150W combined maximum. Given how little these rails are used in this day and age (Not once on a ATX12v based system have I seen more than 8A draw on either, and I've done quite a bit of testing), this is common practice.

Problem #3 18A is not enough 12volt current to run most modern computers.

• +12V1: 18A / +12V2: 18A

Eighteen amps. Multiplied by two. And in no real world example that I have seen, has a quality dual-rail ATX12v PSU been incapable of running a full loaded system.

Now that we've concluded that the Seasonic is at least equal to the Fortron, lets go for the kill: The Fortron is >63% efficient. The Seasonic S12-500 (US version) is >77% efficient. The Fortron doesn't use a 120mm fan, and the Seasonic does. The Seasonic uses all Japanese caps. Fortron uses whatever is cheapest in Taipei that week. The Seasonic has a 3 year warranty. There is no warranty mentioned in the PDF or newegg's site for that PSU.

In short, be damn sure to keep that PSU choice haro. It's one of the few purchases you make that won't depreciate to half it's value in under two years.

Also it looks like your primary motive for building this PC is for games. Save some money and ditch the dual core. Even AMD admits that single core is a gamers best friend. A $275 AMD Athlon 3700+ with 1mb cache will be much faster than an opteron 165 in almost every task. Later when AMD 4800+ CPU's are less than $199 buy one, but untill then we should not over look the advantages of single core. Just remember that 99% of all software is not multi-threaded, so 1.8GHz will seem kind of slow compaired to 2.4GHz.

Single core may be a better choice in this case, but only because the budget requires it. Either way, Haro seems interested in stock voltage overclock now, so he should buy an Opteron 146 ($190 - AMD OSA146BNBOX) I have one comfortably sitting at 2.8GHz stock voltage stock cooler on the computer I'm posting from. And the 3700+ won't touch the Opteron 165 for gaming in a couple of years, and they'll both produce acceptable results now, which means he would only have to bother with GPU upgrades for a while if he did go dual-core.

Oh and your '99%' comment assumes WAY too much. 99% of software isn't written for single-cpu desktop users.

 

[harobikes333]

ummm I was hoping to get dual core:\ So the reason you suggest the single core is because of my budget? How much more do you think I'd have to spend to get a dual core set up...:\?

 

[orangat]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
Do you need front panel audio? If you don't you can still get a great case for $50 shipped

I'd suggest getting a cheap LCD and one stick of quality 1GB ram. You can get a nice LCD and run dual-monitor later, and you can always get a matching stick of ram later.

Thats a great link. Thanks.

 

[johnnqq]

windows 32 bit can only use 2 gigs

 

[harobikes333]

A cheap LCD...:? Don't you want a good monitor or else the thing will go to junk?
Any answers?


I'm mabe then looking for a good 1gig stick of ram for me but I donno which one to get:\ I've looked up timings and stuff and CAS, etc. and read very long guilds but I still can't decide I'm hoping to get some value type ram that OCs alright....can it be done?

Is either case I put on my list though worth buying?Any answers?

 

[johnnqq]

value ram is mostly the same. just make sure it's from a good company: crucial, ocz, corsair, mushkin, etc

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
2x512MB means you'll either have a performance hit (4 sticks run at 2T) or two 512MB sticks to get rid of (because you want 2x1GB) if you ever want 2GB

I'd suggest getting one nice 1GB stick to start with. Dual-channel only doubles memory bandwidth, which won't be a big loss for an dual-core unless you're encoding/rendering as your primary task, which you aren't

Going from 1T to 2T causes only 3% loss in performance. Compair that to the money spent on 2GB DIMMS. It is cheaper to use 4 DIMM with 97% of the same performance of 2 DIMMs.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: ribbon13

Originally posted by: Googer
Personaly I believe this is a betterPSU Sparkle PSU's are built like a tank.

Well, let's test your beliefs. (Edit: With the help of the PDF linked right there on newegg, even though when I wrote this post I found it from FSPs corporate page)

My problem with that Seasonic Model is in the specificatoins:

• AC Input: 100-240V, 50/60 Hz
• Voltage Regulation: ±5% on all lines except -12V line ±10%

Exactly... negative twelve. The FSP550PLG-SLI offers +9%/-4% load regulation on that rail, not too much different and totally moot since this rail doesn't need to have highly regulated power. Also, Seasonic's S12 offers 1% line regulation across all rails, while Fortron backs off to 2% on a the -12v and 5vsb

Problem #2 the 3.3volt and 5volt lines share one rail.

• 
  Good PSU's have separate rails for
  3.3v and 5v This Seasonic Does not-
  
• +3.3V: 30A / +5.0V: 30A
• +3.3V & +5.5V Combined: 180W

You're also incorrect here my friend. The FSP550PLG-SLI also uses a shared rail... only offering 150W combined maximum. Given how little these rails are used in this day and age (Not once on a ATX12v based system have I seen more than 8A draw on either, and I've done quite a bit of testing), this is common practice.

Problem #3 18A is not enough 12volt current to run most modern computers.

• +12V1: 18A / +12V2: 18A

Eighteen amps. Multiplied by two. And in no real world example that I have seen, has a quality dual-rail ATX12v PSU been incapable of running a full loaded system.

Now that we've concluded that the Seasonic is at least equal to the Fortron, lets go for the kill: The Fortron is >63% efficient. The Seasonic S12-500 (US version) is >77% efficient. The Fortron doesn't use a 120mm fan, and the Seasonic does. The Seasonic uses all Japanese caps. Fortron uses whatever is cheapest in Taipei that week. The Seasonic has a 3 year warranty. There is no warranty mentioned in the PDF or newegg's site for that PSU.

In short, be damn sure to keep that PSU choice haro. It's one of the few purchases you make that won't depreciate to half it's value in under two years.

Also it looks like your primary motive for building this PC is for games. Save some money and ditch the dual core. Even AMD admits that single core is a gamers best friend. A $275 AMD Athlon 3700+ with 1mb cache will be much faster than an opteron 165 in almost every task. Later when AMD 4800+ CPU's are less than $199 buy one, but untill then we should not over look the advantages of single core. Just remember that 99% of all software is not multi-threaded, so 1.8GHz will seem kind of slow compaired to 2.4GHz.

Single core may be a better choice in this case, but only because the budget requires it. Either way, Haro seems interested in stock voltage overclock now, so he should buy an Opteron 146 ($190 - AMD OSA146BNBOX) I have one comfortably sitting at 2.8GHz stock voltage stock cooler on the computer I'm posting from. And the 3700+ won't touch the Opteron 165 for gaming in a couple of years, and they'll both produce acceptable results now, which means he would only have to bother with GPU upgrades for a while if he did go dual-core.

Oh and your '99%' comment assumes WAY too much. 99% of software isn't written for single-cpu desktop users.

Let set efficiancy aside here. Second fans are inefective marketing aides that do not help much in cooling. I reality they remove or waste space in that should used by more important parts like Transformers, Capacitors, Heatsinks, etc. That is the stuff that matters. With limited space in there, they had to shrink those important parts to fit that second and almost poinless fan in there. Nice Concept but a bad idea.

Dont get me wrong Seasonic is nice, very nice; but for $20 less I would rather recomend this Antec over it (seasonic).

Shared 3.3 and 5v lines are things you find on cheaper PSU's costing less than $45-55. For $110 I would expect better.

But none of your points really matter much when the unit that you recomend has voltage on the 12v line that can be as loose as that, possibly violating some warrenties.

Please Confirm what you are saying, show me a link that says what brand each PSU maker uses?

 

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: Googer
Personaly I believe this is a betterPSU Sparkle PSU's are built like a tank.

Use http://labs.anandtech.com/ and might be able to find it for less.

My problem with that Seasonic Model is in the specificatoins:

• AC Input: 100-240V, 50/60 Hz
• Voltage Regulation: ±5% on all lines except -12V line ±10%

The -12V line is unused on modern PCs. Therefore the -12V performance of a PSU is irrelevant.

It is expected that the next time the ATX spec is updated, the -12V line will be gone.

Problem #2 the 3.3volt and 5volt lines share one rail.

• 
  Good PSU's have separate rails for
  3.3v and 5v This Seasonic Does not-
  
• +3.3V: 30A / +5.0V: 30A
• +3.3V & +5.5V Combined: 180W

Drawing the 3.3V line from the 5V line is a simple way of reducing the number of components in the PSU, improving efficiency, and reducing heat production. Both lines are independently regulated, so get clean power. Separating the 5V and 3.3V lines (as is done on some PSUs) has no benefit over the conventional method but has higher cost.

Modern PCs take very little power on 3.3 and 5V lines. Pretty much all power hogs (graphics cards, CPUs, etc.) have now outgrown these low voltages and take their power from +12V. 150W should be more than sufficient. 180W is pretty much overkill.

Problem #3 18A is not enough 12volt current to run most modern computers.

• +12V1: 18A / +12V2: 18A

The ATX spec recommends an 18A maximum. I'd be very worried if any ATX PC couldn't run on the highest specification allowed by the ATX spec.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Mark R

Originally posted by: Googer
Personaly I believe this is a betterPSU Sparkle PSU's are built like a tank.

Use http://labs.anandtech.com/ and might be able to find it for less.

Drawing the 3.3V line from the 5V line is a simple way of reducing the number of components in the PSU, improving efficiency, and reducing heat production. Both lines are independently regulated, so get clean power. Separating the 5V and 3.3V lines (as is done on some PSUs) has no benefit over the conventional method but has higher cost.

Modern PCs take very little power on 3.3 and 5V lines. Pretty much all power hogs (graphics cards, CPUs, etc.) have now outgrown these low voltages and take their power from +12V. 150W should be more than sufficient. 180W is pretty much overkill.

Problem #3 18A is not enough 12volt current to run most modern computers.

• +12V1: 18A / +12V2: 18A

The ATX spec recommends an 18A maximum. I'd be very worried if any ATX PC couldn't run on the highest specification allowed by the ATX spec.

You still cannot ignore problem #2, for $100+ separate 3.3 and 5v lines are almost standard.

Problem #2 the 3.3volt and 5volt lines share one rail.

• 
  Good PSU's have separate rails for
  3.3v and 5v This Seasonic Does not-

Bottom line: Unless this was a $40 PSU, I Avoid the Seasonic.

In the very near future 18A just won't be enough power. More AMPs means a cooler running PSU.

Even though it lacks PFC, this is the best value for the dollar.