*UPDATE: CAVE COMPLETE* Boehner's Caving: Say to allies I want a fiscal deal

[werepossum]

Of course they're willing to start with NIH and run down the list of everything else until Obamacare. This is their goal. They want to regularly use the federal budget process to defund existing laws they don't like, when they lack the votes to pass legislation to achieve their goal.

If you're comfortable with vocal minorities doing it this way from now on, wait until the tables are turned. I dare say your tune will change when the Dems are doing this to a Republican law. The cries of "treason" from the fringe right will be deafening (well, more deafening than usual).

I'm meh on it being done - we're getting hosed either way. Either we keep on funding the federal government at bail-out levels forever (or to be more accurate, bail-out levels minus the small mandatory cuts) or government shuts down. I would have been enthusiastic about it last year, but this year the Senate Dems actually passed a budget and the Republicans have not given an honest try at reconciliation. So not only will I not be comfortable with it happening in the future, I am not comfortable with it happening now. But since, to repeat myself, I think we're getting hosed either way, I'm not particularly worked up about it either.

What I would LIKE to see from the Republicans:
1) Pass a clean 90 day CR covering everything currently funded.
2) Pass a clean debt ceiling increase good for an estimated 90 days.
3) Have 48 hours' continuous House debate on the Senate budget, followed by an up or down vote.
4) Assuming it fails, spend the next 60 days in intense bipartisan negotiations about the budget level, taking into account the debt ceiling, with the understanding that 30 days in, every proposal with 1/4 support in the reconciliation committee goes before the House and Senate for an up or down vote.
5) Have an up or down on the budget with the highest support.
6) Go to reconciliation.
7) Decide what parts of Obamacare need to continue and draft legislation replacing the current monstrosity with only those parts, then take that directly to the American people.

I don't really see how the republicans can't eventually cave. I'm not a fan of government programs but the democrats have no incentives to take anything less than a 'clean' budget. Most of the media blames the republicans, the dems want to keep the ACA and the ACA was not effected by the shutdown.

There is just no incentive to negotiate. They know this can't go on forever and at this point in time the President holds all the cards (He likes the ACA, and has said he will veto anything that hurts it). The longer it goes the more the media will make the reps out to be the bad guys.

I think the dems know that all they need to do is wait. They have no incentive to negotiate by giving things to the republicans. If anything they have enough leverage to ask the republicans to give them some more things!

Sadly the populous won't see this and realize both sides are f'in morons who are playing political games with peoples lives. Instead they will see this as a validation of the hate they have for people with different beliefs then them.

Pretty much how I see it. If Harry Reid can say with impunity "why would we do that (fund studies for children with cancer)" rather than hold out for everything they want, I can't see what leverage the Pubbies can possibly have. Most of Obamacare is mandatory entitlement spending anyway, so most of Obamacare marches on regardless of whether the rest of government marches with it.

 

[glenn1]

Of course they're willing to start with NIH and run down the list of everything else until Obamacare. This is their goal. They want to regularly use the federal budget process to defund existing laws they don't like, when they lack the votes to pass legislation to achieve their goal.

If you're comfortable with vocal minorities doing it this way from now on, wait until the tables are turned. I dare say your tune will change when the Dems are doing this to a Republican law. The cries of "treason" from the fringe right will be deafening (well, more deafening than usual).

Again, deciding what to spend or not spend is the entire point of a budget. Which is the exact legislation they're looking to pass to reach their goal.

 

[K1052]

At this point I think the House should pass the budget they want and adjourn for the rest of the term, leaving no quorum to conduct other business.

It would never work not to mention stain the GOP for years (if not decades) as deserters. Enough moderate GOP reps would show to make a quorum and vote with the Democrats.

 

[Jaepheth]

If Boehner lasts for 4 or more days you have to call a doctor.

Everyone knows this.

 

[werepossum]

No, Congress can fund whatever it wants, or defund whatever it wants. There is absolutely no spending of any kind that Congress is obliged to fund (with the exception of repayment of federal debt), no matter how much you put the word "mandatory" in front of it.

At this point I think the House should pass the budget they want and adjourn for the rest of the term, leaving no quorum to conduct other business.

Passing their budget is only part of their job; they also have to reconcile with the Senate budget and pass one unified budget. That is intentional, as is giving the House the power of the purse. The House is more in tune with the people, and the Senate keeps the House from acting rashly because of the mood of the moment.

The Democrats' utter failure to do their jobs over the last three years does not relieve the Republicans of doing their jobs now. If they honestly cannot come to an agreement, fine, keep the damned government shut down until it's the next Congress' turn, but I expect them to keep working on it until they are re-elected and re-sworn in, or replaced. Because that is what they are paid to do.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Anyone who thinks Republicans are somehow holding a favorable hand in this is deluding themselves. The Republicans have been negotiating with themselves since this began, while the Democrats have stood back and watched. Every day Bohner seems to move the goalposts trying to find a way out. The Republicans are in a very bad place with this. I imagine Obama will eventually throw them some meaningless little nugget just so Republicans can say they got something, and they'll retreat from this with their tail between their legs and probably start working on another 100 bills to repeal Obamacare.

 

[dainthomas]

I'm meh on it being done - we're getting hosed either way. Either we keep on funding the federal government at bail-out levels forever (or to be more accurate, bail-out levels minus the small mandatory cuts) or government shuts down. I would have been enthusiastic about it last year, but this year the Senate Dems actually passed a budget and the Republicans have not given an honest try at reconciliation. So not only will I not be comfortable with it happening in the future, I am not comfortable with it happening now. But since, to repeat myself, I think we're getting hosed either way, I'm not particularly worked up about it either.

What I would LIKE to see from the Republicans:
1) Pass a clean 90 day CR covering everything currently funded.
2) Pass a clean debt ceiling increase good for an estimated 90 days.
3) Have 48 hours' continuous House debate on the Senate budget, followed by an up or down vote.
4) Assuming it fails, spend the next 60 days in intense bipartisan negotiations about the budget level, taking into account the debt ceiling, with the understanding that 30 days in, every proposal with 1/4 support in the reconciliation committee goes before the House and Senate for an up or down vote.
5) Have an up or down on the budget with the highest support.
6) Go to reconciliation.
7) Decide what parts of Obamacare need to continue and draft legislation replacing the current monstrosity with only those parts, then take that directly to the American people.

I think we're on the same page. If the voters elect enough people to Congress to overturn or amend the ACA, and a president who would sign it, then that's obiously what the people want and what should happen. I'm not passionate enough about the ACA to care either way. If Republicans want it done, do it the right way.

 

[werepossum]

I think we're on the same page. If the voters elect enough people to Congress to overturn or amend the ACA, and a president who would sign it, then that's obiously what the people want and what should happen. I'm not passionate enough about the ACA to care either way. If Republicans want it done, do it the right way.

Agreed, with the understanding that not everything about the ACA is bad and before replacing it, the Pubbies should have a plan in place to replace the good parts of it.

 

[Muse]

I think Boehner figures, and rightly so, if the US defaults his legacy will be goat and little more. Do you think he wants to spend the rest of his life thinking "everybody thinks I'm the goat. They're hiding it, pretending it isn't so, but it's true! They think I'm the guy who undermined the USA's status as the rock solid fiscal entity on planet earth." No way, Jose.

 

[First]

lulz bump

 

[fskimospy]

They don't need any more moves since the shutdown is already in place. Obama not negotiating leaves it in place, so Obama is the one who needs a move in order to get the shutdown lifted. Status quo favors Republicans, just as it did during the Sequester fight. There is really nothing for the GOP to gain by giving in and granting a "clean" continuing resolution, they've already taken the assault from the Democrats and news media for it happening in the first place so they might as well stick with it. It's not like the news media will start singing their praises if they do pass the clean CR.

lol.

 

[bshole]

Admit it Eski, the whack-a-doodle right made you just a tab bit nervous this time around. They certainly scared the crap out of me.

The DJIA is at 15,300, LOL, I never got out of the market. What a relief.

 

[fskimospy]

Admit it Eski, the whack-a-doodle right made you just a tab bit nervous this time around. They certainly scared the crap out of me.

The DJIA is at 15,300, LOL, I never got out of the market. What a relief.

They most certainly did. This is nothing to be fooling around with and I'm glad that it appears that the Republicans have given up.

My sincere hope is that they have been burned badly enough by this that they will think long and hard before trying to take the debt ceiling/budget hostage again in the future. I'm sure the ultra conservatives are busy convincing themselves that this isn't their fault somehow though, so I'm not sure how well the lesson will stick.

 

[child of wonder]

Our leaders are such abysmal fucking failures.

Their "great compromise?" Let's kick the can down the road a few months and then go through all of this again.

 

[Matt1970]

They most certainly did. This is nothing to be fooling around with and I'm glad that it appears that the Republicans have given up.

My sincere hope is that they have been burned badly enough by this that they will think long and hard before trying to take the debt ceiling/budget hostage again in the future. I'm sure the ultra conservatives are busy convincing themselves that this isn't their fault somehow though, so I'm not sure how well the lesson will stick.

The 18 times before didn't burn either party. This time will be different right?

 

[fskimospy]

The 18 times before didn't burn either party. This time will be different right?

You've been corrected on this too many times to bother doing it again.

The Republicans are currently the most unpopular they have ever been since we began measuring it, all because of their incredibly irresponsible behavior here. As the next election gets closer I doubt they will want to remind voters of that again.

 

[First]

I guess you don't know what caving means.

bump

 

[bshole]

Originally Posted by Matt1970
I guess you don't know what caving means.

Spelunking?

LOL!! That's a joke son, LAUGH!

 

[Incorruptible]

They most certainly did. This is nothing to be fooling around with and I'm glad that it appears that the Republicans have given up.

My sincere hope is that they have been burned badly enough by this that they will think long and hard before trying to take the debt ceiling/budget hostage again in the future. I'm sure the ultra conservatives are busy convincing themselves that this isn't their fault somehow though, so I'm not sure how well the lesson will stick.

Hostage? How about liberals stop the fear mongering and theatrics? Raising the debt ceiling is irresponsible and isn't addressing the root problems.

 

[bshole]

Raising the debt ceiling is irresponsible and isn't addressing the root problems.

I agree. To address the root problem we need to slap the stupid out of the Tea Party.

 

[NFS4]

Boehner 10/9/13: "This isn’t some damn game"
Boehner 10/16/13: "We fought the good fight. We just didn't win."

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I guess I can go back to still not worrying.

 

[Incorruptible]

I agree. To address the root problem we need to slap the stupid out of the Tea Party.

Let me guess, You went to a Tea Party rally and got your ass kicked and then Tea Bagged? We need to slap the stupid out of you.

 

[alien42]

Hostage? How about liberals stop the fear mongering and theatrics? Raising the debt ceiling is irresponsible and isn't addressing the root problems.

are you even familiar with the history of the debt ceiling raises?

or does you point only stand when a Democrat is in the White House?

 

[Incorruptible]

are you even familiar with the history of the debt ceiling raises?

or does you point only stand when a Democrat is in the White House?

Keep acting like an idiot. Both parties should cut spending and not raise the debt ceiling.