UPDATE: BUSH COMMUTES LIBBY'S SENTENCE -Courts can't touch Libby.

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Jun 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: DonVito
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I really am just . . . stunned by this development. The shamelessness of this commutation is just unbelievable. President Bush is SO transparent and flagrant in his dereliction of duty that it's like he's trying to get himself impeached.

That's where I'm at. I figured at the very best, Libby would serve out a year or so in WCCCRP (White Collar Country Club Resort Prison) and Dub would pardon him on his way out the door, or, even ballsier... pardon him the day after the elections. Either waythe pardon would not be a surprise and somebody still would have gone to jail over this. Pretty safe. But even that would have still had a slight tinge of Dubbya thumbing his nose at the issue.

But this... THIS... Wow. This is just Dub looking at everyone and saying: "Oh yeah? Waddayagunnadoaboutit?"
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
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I'll be calling ALL of my congressmen/senators tomorrow. I mean NO PRISON TIME at all? That is fracking BS.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I'll be calling ALL of my congressmen/senators tomorrow. I mean NO PRISON TIME at all? That is fracking BS.

I don't know what good that will do. Technically Dubbya was within his rights to do what he did. It doesn't make it right. But he had the authority to do it...

This is definitely one of those times whrere what's legal and what's right don't meet eye to eye.
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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It's interesting that Martha Stewart is being mentioned . . . I've read legal opinions that her conviction was bogus, same as with Libby's.

All things considered, I wish he'd taken the time to pardon Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean while he had his pen out. The fact that he's letting these guys rot in prison pretty much indicates that this move is just pandering to the base.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
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I just finished reading this thread, and I just have to say.....Where were you all when a great Democrat was accused of perjury, later admitted to it, tried to change the definition of a word to avoid admitting another case of perjury, lied under oath and lied before Congress?

Back to the present:

Libby committed perjury...plain and simple he should have been punished for it. ALL government officials found guilty of perjury should be punished for it. It's not true that they are punished now, nor was it true then. Why the outrage? Par for the course is how it appears to me. Both parties are corrupt...get over it! What we should focus is not which party can do better than the other, rather we should be looking at alternatives to the broken system, and holding idiots accountable for their actions. Hollywood and "Me" generation has no place in my home or my country. The legacy of their "new" morality is apparent to all...

Morality is not new, and regardless of what many think, having a strict moral code does NOT cripple you. It guides you in every action. Your personal code is apparent in most things that you do. It is mostly irrelevant to world affairs for the average Joe, but a moral compass for a World Leader should be of the highest caliber.
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
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Libby was the fall guy, and to save him from jail time Bush saved him. What we really need is a large party for all these politicians and let the terrorists nuke the building they are in. I hate to say it, but corruption is so prevalent in our government these days that they don't even try and hide it much anymore. We need to sh!t can all of them and start over.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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Heh. Most people don't seem to really get it, at all. Libby's sentence was commuted for one reason only- he couldn't be allowed to roll over, tell the truth in return for leniency from the court. G Gordon Liddy he's not, and nobody expected that he would be. Honest disclosure on his part would have been much more damaging than this, likely implicating Cheney, Rove and even Bush himself in a conspiracy to smear Wilson.

Take a look at this statement in a new light-

?If there?s a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is . . . If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of.?

It's what Bush said Sept 30, 2003, and it doesn't mean what anybody thought it did, at all.

Final score in this round: Bush Clan- 1, ROTW- 0. The price of victory is clearly higher than anticipated, but it beats losing. Just the way it is.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: XMan
It's interesting that Martha Stewart is being mentioned . . . I've read legal opinions that her conviction was bogus, same as with Libby's.

All things considered, I wish he'd taken the time to pardon Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean while he had his pen out. The fact that he's letting these guys rot in prison pretty much indicates that this move is just pandering to the base.

This was not pandering to the base. He was returning the favor... pure and simple.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
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It seems to be pretty evident that this government no longer serves the will of the people, nor does it act in the best interest of the people.
 

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: TallBill
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Blain

>>> FREE Leonard Peltier <<<

>>> FREE Leonard Peltier <<<

>>> FREE Leonard Peltier <<<

>>> FREE Leonard Peltier <<<

>>> FREE Leonard Peltier <<<

>>> FREE Leonard Peltier <<<

>>> FREE Leonard Peltier <<<</end quote></div>

:roll: Innocent men dont flee the country.
Of course...
I don't see why a native american should think he wouldn't get a fair shake from the United States Government. :shocked:

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Maybe I am wrong, but I don?t see this as a long term thing Democrats will be able to use against Bush etc.
They have their own problems ala William Jefferson.

You mean the corrupt congressman every democrat here has said "investigate and punish him if covicted"? What's the 'problem'? If the dems were demanding a pardon you'd have a point.

You don't.

Two weeks from now we will be back to talking about Iraq and funding etc etc and no one will even remember this.

So your measure of the morality of an issue is how long the media cycle lasts. You say nothing about right and wrong, the totality of your view is how long it's talked about.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think this will Bush when it comes to the ?base?
The people who listen to talk radio etc who felt that 30 months was to long for the crime he was convicted of.
I highly doubt this has any long term affect on Bush, the people who are going to not like this already hate him anyway.

The same could be said of Bush imprisoning Michael Moore and Al Sharpton under his made-up 'unitary powers'.

And this would be your response to that, too? What nice logic - divide the American people into enough of a majority to get elected, and screw the rest any way you like.

You are really starting to show a pattern of a cynical lack of morality in your posts. Or maybe I'm just starting to notice it more.

Do you realize how you dodge the real issue of right and wrong to put on your little hat of 'political race horse analyst'? I wonder if it's intentional or not.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well at least Scooter Fibby is on probation for another two years. And as far as I know, as a convicted Felon, can't work for the Federal Government ever again. There is always talk radio---the preferred route for such rats as Ollie North, G. Gordon Libby, and druggies like Rush Limbaugh.

Don't worry about Libby, the right-wing organized crime network of money has taken care of him; last year when he left, he accepted a gig with the right-wing Hudson Institute.

For example, just as with the corrupt Medicare drug bill; the congressman who was in charge of it then resigned and headed up the drug lobbying company for $2M a year - a pittance compared to the $150 billion in windfall profit it's predicted to give to the drug companies out of the pockets of the elderly - and 14 congressional staffers on the bill left, too, IIRC from 'Sicko'. Talk radio and Fox News are just a couple of the places for the disgraced; and it even works both ways, e.g., Tony Snow.

Heck, ask the US Attorney who was gotten rid of to get a spot for a Rove protege to get the background for a future federal judgeship or other powerful position, as a 'made man'.

The honest and competent people are pushed aside for the loyalists of the right-wing organized crime family.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Craig finds it too painful to give me a QFT. :laugh:

It's OK buddy! I still love ya!

It's good to be loved.

It's not painful - I'm glad we agree on this issue (there aren't many, are there). But I rarely use 'QFT'; it just doesn't seem to add a lot usually.

You do stand out (in a good light) from some here, though, who reflexively defend the White House, however specious the argument.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Heh. Most people don't seem to really get it, at all. Libby's sentence was commuted for one reason only- he couldn't be allowed to roll over, tell the truth in return for leniency from the court. G Gordon Liddy he's not, and nobody expected that he would be. Honest disclosure on his part would have been much more damaging than this, likely implicating Cheney, Rove and even Bush himself in a conspiracy to smear Wilson.

Take a look at this statement in a new light-

?If there?s a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is . . . If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of.?

It's what Bush said Sept 30, 2003, and it doesn't mean what anybody thought it did, at all.

Final score in this round: Bush Clan- 1, ROTW- 0. The price of victory is clearly higher than anticipated, but it beats losing. Just the way it is.

QFMFT!!!! America you better wake up and take your country back.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Moonbeam
One thing I am absolutely convinced of is that we could have quickly gotten to the bottom of this rotten crime and cleaned out the criminals responsible for this treasonous act fast if instead of being questioned by Fitzgerald he'd have been water boarded in Guantanamo like the terrorist he is.</end quote></div>
Ummm we knew the original leaker right from the start?
Yep, Dick Cheney, and Scooter is being rewarded for protecting him. Scooter was convicted for lying and obstructing the investgation into the treasonous betrayal of a covert agent (and her cover company) in a self-proclaimed "time of war". Had someone on the left done this, you would be screeching for his hanging. Since it's your team, however, you twist and contort and outright lie to deflect the truth, flinging one lame excuse after another to protect your administration from accountability.

As I've pointed out directly to you before, and as you have dodged again and again, Armitage was only one of the TWO people who exposed Plame to Novak. What Fitzgerald was never able to prove is who exposed Plame to Armitage and Libby. Cheney is the obvious suspect, but thanks to Scooter's lying, we may never know for sure.

If you cared at all for America you would be outraged. Instead, you and the other BushCo shills have been out in force over the last 12 hours, catapulting the propaganda on every media outlet available, trying to divert attention from the real crime by lying about Armitage. You are as amoral as Bush himself.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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Originally posted by: Bowfinger
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ProfJohn
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Moonbeam
One thing I am absolutely convinced of is that we could have quickly gotten to the bottom of this rotten crime and cleaned out the criminals responsible for this treasonous act fast if instead of being questioned by Fitzgerald he'd have been water boarded in Guantanamo like the terrorist he is.</end quote></div>
Ummm we knew the original leaker right from the start?</end quote></div>
Yep, Dick Cheney, and Scooter is being rewarded for protecting him. Scooter was convicted for lying and obstructing the investgation into the treasonous betrayal of a covert agent (and her cover company) in a self-proclaimed "time of war". Had someone on the left done this, you would be screeching for his hanging. Since it's your team, however, you twist and contort and outright lie to deflect the truth, flinging one lame excuse after another to protect your administration from accountability.

As I've pointed out directly to you before, and as you have dodged again and again, Armitage was only one of the TWO people who exposed Plame to Novak. What Fitzgerald was never able to prove is who exposed Plame to Armitage and Libby. Cheney is the obvious suspect, but thanks to Scooter's lying, we may never know for sure.

If you cared at all for America you would be outraged. Instead, you and the other BushCo shills have been out in force over the last 12 hours, catapulting the propaganda on every media outlet available, trying to divert attention from the real crime by lying about Armitage. You are as amoral as Bush himself.

Fitzgerald didnt have a case if it couldnt get a grand jury to indict. You dont need a lot of evidence to do so and the defense doesnt get a chance to defend itself. Grand jurys are simply the prosecutor laying out the groundwork for a case in front of a jury to indict people for trial. If he couldnt convince a grand jury, your wild eyed theory about covert ops being outed are a figment of your imagination. Hell, even the author of the bill designed to protect covert ops admitted so much.

And what is there to lie about Armitage? He was the source for the leak. Why isnt he indicted for outing a covert op? Oh, that is right, she wasnt covert and hadnt been in the previous 5 years.



 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
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Originally posted by: TheSlamma
I find it interesting the American people give that power to the president.


I find it interesting that this has turned into a 7 page thread with several people "shocked". Seriously, if anyone thought Libby was going to do 1 night in jail they are a fscking moron.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
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I've noticed that Hillary has weighed in on Bush's pardon's. Given her husbands past behavior with presidential pardons, it would probably be best if she sat this one out.