Second, you don't need a die shrink to deliver more performance. If you were not aware, the 9800GTX was on 65nm and the GTX 280 was also on 65nm. The GTX 280 offered a good 35% to 40% more performance than the 9800GTX.
I think you miss the point, sir. AMD's new midrange 6 series card is going to make the GTX 460 unappealing, as their new cards will offer better performance for the same dollar.
The 9800GTX was 324MM^2. The GTX 280 576mm^2.
We're not talking about a 78% increase in die area with the 6000 series, now are we?
You miss the point. Why would you assume AMD would price them that way when the entire 5000 series isn't priced that way?
Having a performance advantage means you can jack the price, as AMD did with the 5870 and 5850. The 5850 is still selling for $20 over its own launch price even though it's performance no longer warrants it.
If AMD won't lower the price of the 5850 to reflect its performance, what makes you think a hypothetical 6770 at >5850 performance will be priced thousands of dollars less?
Do you know the die size of the 6870 ?
The 9800GTX was 324MM^2. The GTX 280 576mm^2.
We're not talking about a 78% increase in die area with the 6000 series, now are we?
You miss the point. Why would you assume AMD would price them that way when the entire 5000 series isn't priced that way?
Having a performance advantage means you can jack the price, as AMD did with the 5870 and 5850. The 5850 is still selling for $20 over its own launch price even though it's performance no longer warrants it.
If AMD won't lower the price of the 5850 to reflect its performance, what makes you think a hypothetical 6770 at >5850 performance will be priced thousands of dollars less?
The 9800GTX was 324MM^2. The GTX 280 576mm^2.
We're not talking about a 78% increase in die area with the 6000 series, now are we?
AMD is going to be bringing the pain soon.
Do you know the die size of the 6870 ? Please enlighten us. Most everything that has been released about the upcoming chips so far in reference to die size is saying it's a bigger die. The increased power requirement in 8+6pin speaks to this. Pointing to an increase in die size of 9800gtx to gtx 280 does nothing but further fortify the invalidity of your statement that the 6870 is not going to offer significantly more performance because it is not on a die shrink.
toyota said:The end point to take away is that the Radeon HD 6000 series is a new architecture, and that more than helps explains some of these insane early benchmarks that have been floating around. Die sizes are said to be about 10-15% bigger across the board, but the performance also looks to be 60%+ higher in some cases; more than a fair tradeoff.
Skurge said:4870 was 35% larger, but a lot more than 2x faster than 3870 with essentially the same architecture and same manufacturing process.
4870 has GDDR5. It stomps on the 4850 too.
Nobody's saying the 6000 series will have GDDR6 or 7. If they were then there's an avenue for such an improvement. As there is not, there is not.
4870 has GDDR5. It stomps on the 4850 too.
Nobody's saying the 6000 series will have GDDR6 or 7. If they were then there's an avenue for such an improvement. As there is not, there is not.
this rumor seems little hard to believe since most sources close to amd up to now is saying it's just a hybrid. and I don't see how amd can finish the new design so quickly either. my guess is a revised edition of the hd5xxx is more plausible at this point. of course all new core is much more welcome if true.
You know things are looking good for AMD when NVIDIA's shills are out in full force and this scared.
Here's what I find interesting - the leaked benches we've seen so far are of a card that is 30-40% faster than a GTX 480. For the sake of argument, I'll assume they're legit (hell, even Wizzard said the screens of GPU-Z looked original). I'm going to guess that means AMD really is following up with the 6970 right after, as I doubt the "6870" will have that kind of performance.
The other thing I'm wondering is if the 6870 will have performance that's on par with the 5850/5870. After all, it's supposed to have 320SP. I can't wait until next month .
Great summaryI don't know why you guys are arguing with Wreckage.
When the 4850x2 was cheaper and faster than the GTX 285, Wreckage would say "dual GPU cards do not matter, only single GPU cards do". When the 5870 came out and the GTX 295 was a tad faster in half of the benchmarks, Wreckage would say "the only thing that matters is who has the performance crown, it doesn't matter if it is dual GPU or not and DX11 doesn't matter". When the 5970 came out, Wreckage would say "the only thing that matters is market share, it's obvious that whoever has the most market share has the best cards, whoever has the performance crown doesn't matter". And when the GTX 480 came out, Wreckage would say "the only thing that matters is the single GPU performance king, dual GPU cards do not matter and DX11 is the most important thing there is" And when it was realized that Nvidia is actually the new underdog when it comes to marketshare, Wreckage stopped saying marketshare was important.
Looks like a struck a chord . Where's NVIDIA's benchmarks? Or leaked photos of hardware? And I don't mean any with wood screws.I thought only the mid range cards are coming out this year?, if so, then NV has nothing to worry about...And if the high end cards dont come out until next year, who is to say NV doesnt have Fermi 2 ready?
You know things are looking good for NVIDIA when ATi shills are out in full force are bleating about products not even close to released...yawn!
Agreed...new architecture or not, same crap ATi driver team..LOL
I thought only the mid range cards are coming out this year?, if so, then NV has nothing to worry about...And if the high end cards dont come out until next year, who is to say NV doesnt have Fermi 2 ready?
You know things are looking good for NVIDIA when ATi shills are out in full force are bleating about products not even close to released...yawn!
Great summary
Looks like a struck a chord . Where's NVIDIA's benchmarks? Or leaked photos of hardware? And I don't mean any with wood screws.
This is that same cowpile about drivers we hear all the time.
Currently GTX 460 and 460 SLI has huge issues for many users with gpu usage, stuttering and poor performance with current drivers.
4XX series SLI also has tons of issues with current drivers.
For the past three weeks nvidia has been promising a fix each week, and each week it has been delayed again. Still nothing.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=170238&st=380
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=306622&page=9
The driver thing is such a pile. I use cards from both companies and they both have issues, none more than the other.
Agreed...new architecture or not, same crap ATi driver team..LOL
I think you miss the point, sir. AMD's new midrange 6 series card is going to make the GTX 460 unappealing, as their new cards will offer better performance for the same dollar. Or perhaps better performance for $30 more as the 460 continues to get further slashed in price as nvidia tries to fire sale them before AMD drops their new cards.
Now is not a good time to buy a GTX 460, in another month you'll be able to get a more powerful, second-generation DX11 card from AMD in the same price bracket.
Second, you don't need a die shrink to deliver more performance. If you were not aware, the 9800GTX was on 65nm and the GTX 280 was also on 65nm. The GTX 280 offered a good 35% to 40% more performance than the 9800GTX.
So there is no voodoo here. AMD is releasing a new architecture, and everyone will get to enjoy the the new levels of performance from it, if they choose to purchase one. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
When AMD's 6870 flagship comes late this year it will be significantly faster than a GTX 480. It is second generation DX11, and will deliver as such.
Wreckage will you accept that amd makes faster video cards than nvidia? Can you acknowledge that hd5000 has outsold GTX400 8:1?
This is probably really really tough for you to do. Take a minute and a deep breath and come up with something good before you go on the ignore list. I'd like to read one last worth-while post from you.