Upcoming graphics features "DX12" - what can we expect?

[CakeMonster]

What features are likely to be implemented in DirectX 12?

Don't get too hung up about the version number. What I'm wondering is what kind of features are most likely to be included in the next major DirectX version.

Do we have any idea? Or is it all completely unknown because the new console generation could kill all the drive toward improvements for several years to come? If you think OpenGL or Mantle will introduce new features and actually manage to get them to be widely adopted, then I'd like to hear about that too.

 

[3DVagabond]

We don't know what, if any, new features Mantle will bring. I would be surprised though if M$ didn't incorporate them into future DX.

 

[Borealis7]

we can expect 0 game support for 2 years since consoles don't support it.
besides, no prediction about DX12 can be accurate before we have concrete numbers on Mantle.

 

[ShintaiDK]

No info on DX12 yet. It will most likely come in the next Windows release tho, codename "Threshold" that is scheduled for spring 2015.

For Mantle, we are now half into december and holiday vacations will start in a week. And still nowhere to be seen.

 

[DownTheSky]

I'm hoping for Mantle going mainstream rather than waiting for next DX.

 

[MeldarthX]

Seeing out there's no announcement for dx 12; AMD's saying there isn't going to be one; MS isn't bothering to say one way or another.

So; outlook not so good......for now

 

[ShintaiDK]

Seeing out there's no announcement for dx 12; AMD's saying there isn't going to be one; MS isn't bothering to say one way or another.

So; outlook not so good......for now

AMD didnt say there wouldnt be one, not to mention AMD got a double role in the matter. Also MS doesnt reveal details before feature complete stage.

 

[sniffin]

AMD didnt say there wouldnt be one, not to mention AMD got a double role in the matter. Also MS doesnt reveal details before feature complete stage.

Thats exactly what AMD said. "There won't be a DirectX12" - AMD vice president.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Thats exactly what AMD said. "There won't be a DirectX12" - AMD vice president.

at least not as far as the company can see

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/DirectX-dx12-API-Battlefield-4,21884.html

In an interview with German Publication Heise.de, Ross Taylor, AMD's Vice President of Global Channel Sales, revealed that the company doesn't expect DirectX 12 to be arriving with the rumored Windows 8.1 "Blue" operating system or at any time in the near future. As a result, AMD's next-generation GPUs will integrate "other technologies."

And as said, AMD sits in a double role. Why would they promote DX now, when their Mantle project would fall flat right away if they did?

And all AMD is saying, no DX12 as far as we can/want to see.

Also MS denied it:

This caught the industry on the hop as Direct X was baked into a lot of Microsoft software. The email was immediately denied by Microsoft. It issued a statement saying that DirectX was an "important and evolving technology for Microsoft".
The spokesperson added that "Microsoft is actively investing in DirectX as the unified graphics foundation for all of our platforms, including Windows, Xbox360 , and Windows Phone. DirectX is evolving and will continue to evolve. Vole had no intention of stopping innovation with DirectX".
Microsoft claimed it had people across multiple divisions working on DirectX technologies and was innovating and evolving DirectX.

http://news.techeye.net/software/forget-directx-12-says-amd

It again raises the question about AMDs resources and credibility.

 

[NTMBK]

Hopefully the next major DirectX revision will be a ground up rewrite to make it more efficient, in a similar way to Mantle but with multi-vendor support.

(Or failing that, if Microsoft just license Mantle and rebrand it as DirectX 12. It already uses HLSL for its shader programs, the same as DirectX.)

 

[ShintaiDK]

Hopefully the next major DirectX revision will be a ground up rewrite to make it more efficient, in a similar way to Mantle but with multi-vendor support.

(Or failing that, if Microsoft just license Mantle and rebrand it as DirectX 12. It already uses HLSL for its shader programs, the same as DirectX.)

Mantle only works on GCN, its not open, and it is nowhere to be seen still. Not to mention the lack of performance benchmarks.

 

[sniffin]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/DirectX-dx12-API-Battlefield-4,21884.html

Uhh, AMD said there won't be a directx12. What you linked says exactly that. "At least not as far as the company can see" does not change that. They aren't MS so of course it isn't absolute.

And as said, AMD sits in a double role. Why would they promote DX now

Acknowledging the possible existence of DX12 is not promoting it

when their Mantle project would fall flat right away if they did?

Stupid statement

It again raises the question about AMDs resources and credibility.

Another stupid statement

MS denying what AMD said does not change what AMD said. Go home shintai, you're drunk

Warning issued for personal attack.
-- stahlhart

 

[Pottuvoi]

Pixel Sync would be nice to have on all GPUs, so that would be a nice place to start.

PRT maximum size would be nice be lifted from 16k to something bigger. (needs higher precision to texture coordinates, not a bad thing.)

48/64bit z-buffer, not all of developers want to tweak Z-buffer math for eternity to get rid possible flickering.

A full programmability to MSAA samples locations, counts etc. (per pixel, if possible.)

Simply put, there's a huge amount of stuff that could become possible, especially as we should finally see new hardware that might allow some new things. (Beyond GCN)

 

[el etro]

Don't get too hung up about the version number. What I'm wondering is what kind of features are most likely to be included in the next major DirectX version.

Keeping the thread on rail: DX11.2(and some features of DX11.1) are much about of use the GPU computing power to help in traditional CPU computing functions(I suppose these two are made by Microsoft in order to praise AMD). IMO DX12 will bring more GPGPU features to gaming.

 

[DownTheSky]

Mantle only works on GCN, its not open, and it is nowhere to be seen still. Not to mention the lack of performance benchmarks.

Mantle currently only works on GCN.

There's nothing there that sais it won't be supported by everyone in the future.

 

[Bateluer]

Mantle currently only works on GCN.

There's nothing there that sais it won't be supported by everyone in the future.

AMD has said Mantle will work on non-GCN cards.

http://wccftech.com/amd-mantle-api-require-gcn-work-nvidia-graphic-cards/

GCN support just comes first as its AMD's product and where'll they'll focus their limited developer funds.

 

[bystander36]

AMD has said Mantle will work on non-GCN cards.

http://wccftech.com/amd-mantle-api-require-gcn-work-nvidia-graphic-cards/

GCN support just comes first as its AMD's product and where'll they'll focus their limited developer funds.

From that link:

Of course heres the thing we are not sure about. Mantle was clearly designed with GCN in mind, so when AMD talks about other vendors being able to utilize Mantle does that mean that Mantle will work on their current Architecture? Or will the actual architecture of rival vendors (Nvidia) be need to be modified to support Mantle? If its the later then this is a very subtle move from AMD’s side pushing towards a Red Future. Another thing we dont understand is what was up with all the apparent hints that Mantle will be GCN only. Unless AMD suddenly decided to make Mantle, Multi-Vendor (Unlikely) AMD had been planning this all along yet all information previously pointed towards a GCN Only Mantle API.

 

[3DVagabond]

From that link:

Of course heres the thing we are not sure about. Mantle was clearly designed with GCN in mind, so when AMD talks about other vendors being able to utilize Mantle does that mean that Mantle will work on their current Architecture? Or will the actual architecture of rival vendors (Nvidia) be need to be modified to support Mantle? If its the later then this is a very subtle move from AMD’s side pushing towards a Red Future. Another thing we dont understand is what was up with all the apparent hints that Mantle will be GCN only. Unless AMD suddenly decided to make Mantle, Multi-Vendor (Unlikely) AMD had been planning this all along yet all information previously pointed towards a GCN Only Mantle API.

I think the first sentence is very important here. They clearly do not know. They are simply rationalizing.

We do know that Mantle requires a minimum feature set. We don't know if there are any GCN only features that are required for this minimum feature set, or if they are something that nVidia would/could add to their cards.

Other considerations are is there going to be a licensing fee? If so, nVidia likely won't support it unless they have absolutely no choice. How feasible is it to incorporate it without support from AMD? I really don't see AMD doing anything more than supplying an SDK and then nVidia having to add and maintain support themselves for their own products. This just might not be feasible without AMD's help. So, yes, AMD could be being very tongue in cheek about this and fully realize that nVidia incorporating it might be nearly impossible.

When I was a kid I went to see the USS Massachusetts. They had this giant anchor lying on the deck. They said that anyone could have it if they could take it away with them. That was in the 60's and it's still there.

Not likely that it's going anywhere soon, either. Mantle support for nVidia might be just as impossible of a task.

 

[nenforcer]

nVidia's new Maxwell cards coming in March are I'm guessing only going to support DirectX 11.2, to catch them up with AMD's GCN series of cards.

Microsoft is just coming off a big launch of XBOX One which incorporates DirectX 10/11 features for the very first time in a console.

There is plenty of time to develop new features and things like real time Ray Tracing may finally make it into whatever DirectX 12 is going to be.

 

[SlickR12345]

Pretty much nothing. I don't see how they can substantially improve DX at this point.

Even today games barely use most of DX11 features, so even if there are some new features in DX12, its going to be likely end of 2014 when its released or 2015 and then additional year till we see one or two games take advantage of it and then additional year or two before most games take advantage of any features it may have.

So, don't expect too much. DX11 for example didn't really bring much innovation, even though it was a decent leap from dx10.

 

[Teizo]

No info on DX12 yet. It will most likely come in the next Windows release tho, codename "Threshold" that is scheduled for spring 2015.

For Mantle, we are now half into december and holiday vacations will start in a week. And still nowhere to be seen.

I have a feeling Mantle for BF4 may be on hold. Too many bugs and other mess to deal with with the regular game. No time for niche API's.

Just my hunch.

 

[blastingcap]

I have a feeling Mantle for BF4 may be on hold. Too many bugs and other mess to deal with with the regular game. No time for niche API's.

Just my hunch.

I get the same feeling...

 

[3DVagabond]

I have a feeling Mantle for BF4 may be on hold. Too many bugs and other mess to deal with with the regular game. No time for niche API's.

Just my hunch.

While anything is possible, you have to think that with all of the money invested, it's a bit more important than the "niche" label you've given it.

 

[Teizo]

While anything is possible, you have to think that with all of the money invested, it's a bit more important than the "niche" label you've given it.

It's not an insult to call it a niche. AMD only has 35% or so of the discrete GPU market. Of course it is an important update, especially for AMD, but DICE has bigger issues to deal with atm thanks to EA.

It's just a hunch I have because there has been no news of a release. You would think by now that DICE or AMD would have made an announcement. Better late than never though. BF4 can't afford anymore rushed releases.

Nonetheless, this is off topic for this thread.

 

[blastingcap]

It's not an insult to call it a niche. AMD only has 35% or so of the discrete GPU market. Of course it is an important update for AMD, but DICE has bigger issues to deal with atm thanks to EA.

I agree, but for another reason: BF4 for non-Mantle already came out. It's OUT. They implicitly promised to deliver a playable game with no major issues to non-Mantle. So that's their priority.

Whereas I don't think EA ever promised a specific date for the launch of Mantle.

So if I were EA, I would try to fix non-Mantle stuff first, because the game is already out and patience is wearing thin for EA to fix it. Then when that is fixed up enough, THEN launch BF4 Mantle.

And when I say EA I really mean DICE, I guess.