Unmoveable Files

[Seekermeister]

Since I just installed MCE, I now have a multiboot with x64, and I notice that when I viewed MCE's partition with the defragmenter in x64, that no unmoveable files appear. Shouldn't one Windows OS see these in another Windows OS?

If I defrag one system with the other, will that mess things up by moving files that it shouldn't?

 

[bsobel]

The built in defragger can't move certain files in use (such as the page file), but since the system isn't booted the other OS CAN move those files. And yes, it should be safe to do.

 

[Seekermeister]

I do understand about the page file, but isn't it going to scramble the other OS files? I realize that you already answered this, but it is something that just isn't locking into place in my head.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
I do understand about the page file, but isn't it going to scramble the other OS files? I realize that you already answered this, but it is something that just isn't locking into place in my head.

Nope, they are just files. There used to be limitaitons on say the boot loader placement, but those have been long resolved.

 

[Seekermeister]

Thanks. That being the case, I wish they would do away with the immoveable files altogether, because it causes too much division of the partition.

 

[corkyg]

NTFS System files can only be defragged safely by doing an off-line defrag during the boot process. Eventually they will position themselves in the middle of your drive and sometimes cause fragmentation. The location of those files is determined by an NTFS algorithm, and that is not user changeable.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Thanks. That being the case, I wish they would do away with the immoveable files altogether, because it causes too much division of the partition.

It's not possible. Those files are immoveable because they are IN USE by the operating system.

 

[corkyg]

Originally posted by: Brazen
It's not possible. Those files are immoveable because they are IN USE by the operating system.

And that is exactly why I do an off-line defrag. It defrags the NTFS system files BEFORE they are in use.

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: corkyg

Originally posted by: Brazen
It's not possible. Those files are immoveable because they are IN USE by the operating system.

And that is exactly why I do an off-line defrag. It defrags the NTFS system files BEFORE they are in use.

Isn't defragging one OS with another OS the equivalent of the offline defrag that you do?

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Originally posted by: corkyg

Originally posted by: Brazen
It's not possible. Those files are immoveable because they are IN USE by the operating system.

And that is exactly why I do an off-line defrag. It defrags the NTFS system files BEFORE they are in use.

Isn't defragging one OS with another OS the equivalent of the offline defrag that you do?

Pretty much. Same outcome at least.

 

[corkyg]

Not necessarily. In order for the NTFS MFT Zone and system files to be placed correctly, it must be off line defragged by a program that works in the OS that will run them.

NTFS Placement

 

[Seekermeister]

This is an area in which I need considerable education. I won't ask all of the questions that come to mind, but can someone explain exactly what the MFT and MFT Zone are...in layman's terms?

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: corkyg
Not necessarily. In order for the NTFS MFT Zone and system files to be placed correctly, it must be off line defragged by a program that works in the OS that will run them.

NTFS Placement

That is not correct, the second OS will defrag the volume fine.

 

[Seekermeister]

I found an exception to the rule. I defragged one OS from another, but not thinking about the fact that I had relocated the page file on another drive. I had intended to reset it to locate itself normally within it's own OS's partition. Now, the MCE defragger see the page file as merely fragmented files and is not able to defrag them. Since the page file is on a drive that I use as an archive, I'm more concerned about the archive than the page file. If I reboot into the other OS and reset the page file, will it remove the old page file or leave it there as is? I thought about copying the archive to another partition, but I'm not sure what the title of the page file is, so that I can make sure that I don't move it also?

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
This is an area in which I need considerable education. I won't ask all of the questions that come to mind, but can someone explain exactly what the MFT and MFT Zone are...in layman's terms?

MFT (master file table) is like the FAT table on older FAT filesystems. It's just the 'card catalog' that contains pointers to where the all the file data is on the disk. It will be preallocated a sizable chunk of the drive so it can lay things out for efficiency (speed). It can shrink though if the space is needed. The MFT is stored at about the halfway point in the partition. This allows updates to the table with the least amount of HDD head travel.

In use or not, defrag will not even attempt to defrag some files. As a rule, the "unmovable" files really don't need moved, nor do they really need defragmented.

 

[Seekermeister]

Smilin,

I already had a fair idea of what the MFT is, but not the MFT zone. your explaination does not clarify that.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Smilin,

I already had a fair idea of what the MFT is, but not the MFT zone. your explaination does not clarify that.

Sure it does. ...

"It will be preallocated a sizable chunk of the drive so it can lay things out for efficiency (speed). It can shrink though if the space is needed."

This "mft zone" is the preallocated space including MFT log files (chkdsk /L for info).

here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/174619