UNLV considures arming faculty.

[Vic]

Originally posted by: crt1530

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mill
Shooting sprees happen all the time in Iraq and Afghanistan. Seems like everyone is armed there.

Fine line that it might be, there is a difference between war and crime. One could say that war is what occurs in the absence of law, while crime requires that law exist in order for it to exist.

Regardless, the problem with the gun argument, from both sides, it that both sides are WRONG. The bickering over guns is really just a way of dehumanizing violence and crime. A way of blaming the tool instead of the human being who actually committed the horrible act. It's a denial of something so terrible that we don't want to even look at it.
I'm sorry to have to say this, but it's us, not the tool, that is to blame.

There ARE evil people among us who wish to do us harm. I choose to arm and defend myself to the best of my abilities as is my right under the constitution.

And if you see my argument through to its logical conclusion, then you'll know that I agree with your point and can see no reason why I or anyone should sacrifice a constitutional right that is a crucial foundation to our civil liberties.
Gun rights are not about crime. Guns are just tools. No more, no less. Make guns illegal and people will see find a way to acquire them, just like how certain drugs are illegal but those drugs aren't hard to find. And if by some miracle all the guns on earth could be make to disappear, people would still commit horrible crimes to each other anyway, just like they did back before guns ever existed.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused
I don't know why I am responding to a thread created by you but...

One thing any THINKING person will realize is one only sees mass shootings and shooting sprees in places where the general public is UNARMED and/or guns are banned.

You NEVER see these where people are armed. When was the last time you heard of a successful shooting spree at a gun show? A gun range? A police station?

Nope, only in places and localities where the victims are sure to be unarmed.

Shooting sprees are impossible if the intended victims are armed. Shooting sprees are a prime example of why CCW is a GOOD idea.

Shooting sprees happen all the time in Iraq and Afghanistan. Seems like everyone is armed there.

Um... OK :roll:

Wanna try for a more realistic example?

Trying being a little less absolute next time, pal.

"Shooting sprees are impossible if the intended victims are armed."

Is easily contradicted and makes your whole argument week. If you said "Lots of deaths in a shooting sprees are rare if the intended victims are armed." Because, cmon, there's plenty of armed people that get shot to death everyday -- and plenty of spree-type killings perpetrated by Sunni or Shia militias in Iraq -- and most people there are armed.

Don't make absolute statements if they cannot possibly be proven.

There is a BIG difference between organized terrorists/armies/militia fighting battles and lone crazed gunmen in the US.

Just stop.

Of course there is. But you made an absolute statement THAT WOULD include those battles. You didn't say "lone crazed gumen" are typically ineffective against those with a CCW.

Dude, I have a CCW. I'm as pro-gun as they get. But, if you are going to make a weak argument I'm going to go after it.

You knew what I was implying. You're just being a prick.

No, I'm not. You just hate to ever admit that you used poor logic or a poor word choice. Because you are ALWAYS right, Amused. No one is ever as smart as you or can criticize anything you do. For once, take some constructive criticism.

Bullsh!t. You KNEW what I was talking about and like some cheap 2 dollar wanna be lawyer you decided to jump on it and try to "pwn" me because I didn't throw in every disclaimer known to man on the mistaken assumption that people could easily understand what I was talking about in the context of the discussion. Grow the fsck up.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: Mill
No, I'm not. You just hate to ever admit that you used poor logic or a poor word choice. Because you are ALWAYS right, Amused. No one is ever as smart as you or can criticize anything you do. For once, take some constructive criticism.

Amused does hate to admit that he is wrong. I'll give you that. He is quite stubborn and I've never seen him back down from an argument (when he usually should).

In this instance, you are purposefully manipulating what he said because it give you some sort of pleasure to have him be wrong. Taking a statement made regarding legally armed citizens and comparing it to the dynamics of a war zone is a fallacious argument. You lose.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: crt1530

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mill
Shooting sprees happen all the time in Iraq and Afghanistan. Seems like everyone is armed there.

Fine line that it might be, there is a difference between war and crime. One could say that war is what occurs in the absence of law, while crime requires that law exist in order for it to exist.

Regardless, the problem with the gun argument, from both sides, it that both sides are WRONG. The bickering over guns is really just a way of dehumanizing violence and crime. A way of blaming the tool instead of the human being who actually committed the horrible act. It's a denial of something so terrible that we don't want to even look at it.
I'm sorry to have to say this, but it's us, not the tool, that is to blame.

There ARE evil people among us who wish to do us harm. I choose to arm and defend myself to the best of my abilities as is my right under the constitution.

And if you see my argument through to its logical conclusion, then you'll know that I agree with your point and can see no reason why I or anyone should sacrifice a constitutional right that is a crucial foundation to our civil liberties.
Gun rights are not about crime. Guns are just tools. No more, no less. Make guns illegal and people will see find a way to acquire them, just like how certain drugs are illegal but those drugs aren't hard to find. And if by some miracle all the guns on earth could be make to disappear, people would still commit horrible crimes to each other anyway, just like they did back before guns ever existed.

I was highlighting what I agreed with and providing an example.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

We need a :chins; emote for this guy

Shut Up, Douglas Kincade

- M4H

 

[Unheard]

UNLV Considers arming cafeteria workers to prevent Douglas from stealing food.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
We need a :chins; emote for this guy

Shut Up, Douglas Kincade

- M4H

:-|))

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: DVK916
FYI it is well known that guns help motivate crime. People who own a gun are more likely to go beserk and kill someone.

No.


A persons character isn't going to change in the presence of a gun. Their actions and emotions can however. (increased sense of power....usually pathetic thoughts of agrandizement)

My reasoning is that guns provide a means to acutalize incidents of rage in addition to any other object that can be used as a weapon, including one's own body. If the rage is already there, they will find a way to repress it or it will all come out some how.

That does not mean that they will resort to such means.

I'll put it this way

Crazy people are crazy and potentially dangerous.
Crazy people with guns are crazy and potentially dangerous...and they have a gun.


Are guns bad?

Ideally? By all means.
Realistically? no.

Are they needed on campus? Sure. LAW Enforcement should be intricately invloved with the security of schools.

Allowing everyone to carry them, or even regular employees? That's a harder questio n that is probably heading towards the wrong road.

I'm tired of writing

<---1 week before summer semester startsand bored out of his mind

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: crt1530

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
We need a :chins; emote for this guy

Shut Up, Douglas Kincade

- M4H

:-|))

:laugh:

- M4H

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: crt1530

Originally posted by: Mill
No, I'm not. You just hate to ever admit that you used poor logic or a poor word choice. Because you are ALWAYS right, Amused. No one is ever as smart as you or can criticize anything you do. For once, take some constructive criticism.

Amused does hate to admit that he is wrong. I'll give you that. He is quite stubborn and I've never seen him back down from an argument (when he usually should).

In this instance, you are purposefully manipulating what he said because it give you some sort of pleasure to have him be wrong. Taking a statement made regarding legally armed citizens and comparing it to the dynamics of a war zone is a fallacious argument. You lose.

A statement was made that shooting sprees never happened among an armed populace. That they were "impossible" if people had guns. It is simply not a true statement. Not even in the United States. It reduces spree killings, but it does not eliminate them. I cannot guess that his intended statement was less than he meant it to be. That would not be fair of me.

As for fallacies, it is pretty fallacious to assume that I'm obtaining some kind of schadenfreude in this debate. I am not. I like Amused rather well -- he's one of my favorite posters on this forum. In addition, I'm not out trying to make a point or teach a lesson. I simply saw a statement that I do not agree with. Assigning me motives in an attempt to discredit or ad-hom my statements is fallacious.

Absolute statements on an issue like gun control/CCW do nothing but hurt us. It is easy to seize on an absolute statement and easily discredit it.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused
I don't know why I am responding to a thread created by you but...

One thing any THINKING person will realize is one only sees mass shootings and shooting sprees in places where the general public is UNARMED and/or guns are banned.

You NEVER see these where people are armed. When was the last time you heard of a successful shooting spree at a gun show? A gun range? A police station?

Nope, only in places and localities where the victims are sure to be unarmed.

Shooting sprees are impossible if the intended victims are armed. Shooting sprees are a prime example of why CCW is a GOOD idea.

Shooting sprees happen all the time in Iraq and Afghanistan. Seems like everyone is armed there.

Um... OK :roll:

Wanna try for a more realistic example?

Trying being a little less absolute next time, pal.

"Shooting sprees are impossible if the intended victims are armed."

Is easily contradicted and makes your whole argument week. If you said "Lots of deaths in a shooting sprees are rare if the intended victims are armed." Because, cmon, there's plenty of armed people that get shot to death everyday -- and plenty of spree-type killings perpetrated by Sunni or Shia militias in Iraq -- and most people there are armed.

Don't make absolute statements if they cannot possibly be proven.

There is a BIG difference between organized terrorists/armies/militia fighting battles and lone crazed gunmen in the US.

Just stop.

Of course there is. But you made an absolute statement THAT WOULD include those battles. You didn't say "lone crazed gumen" are typically ineffective against those with a CCW.

Dude, I have a CCW. I'm as pro-gun as they get. But, if you are going to make a weak argument I'm going to go after it.

You knew what I was implying. You're just being a prick.

No, I'm not. You just hate to ever admit that you used poor logic or a poor word choice. Because you are ALWAYS right, Amused. No one is ever as smart as you or can criticize anything you do. For once, take some constructive criticism.

Bullsh!t. You KNEW what I was talking about and like some cheap 2 dollar wanna be lawyer you decided to jump on it and try to "pwn" me because I didn't throw in every disclaimer known to man on the mistaken assumption that people could easily understand what I was talking about in the context of the discussion. Grow the fsck up.

Nice, ad-hom, but it wasn't some "2 dollar wanna be lawyer" trick. I didn't ask you to throw in disclaimers. You made an entirely absolute statement that is easily discredited and proved wrong, and it my estimate that is rather foolish. Do you want to debate this issue like an adult, or are you going to continue to pitch your little tantrum? Perhaps if you would take two seconds and consider my point of view and point you might find yourself willing to back down -- and you'd possibly look like less of a jackass.

People make mistakes; even you. Either you can accept that like a grown-up or you can continue to pout and say I have some kind of agenda or weird reasoning. Why can you not disagree in a normal, sensible way? I simply do not agree with your position. It is nothing personal. As I mentioned, you are one of my more favorite posters, but you can be extremely stubborn at times.

 

[Ulfwald]

There ARE evil people among us who wish to do us harm. I choose to arm and defend myself to the best of my abilities as is my right under the constitution.

that is sig material right there

I have 2 challenges for all the gun control nuts here.

1) Place a gun on the table and order it to kill someone. Yell at it, pitch a fit, throw a temper tantrum until it gets up off the table and kills someone.

2) Place a sign outside your place of residence,: THIS HOME IS GUN FREE, WE OWN NO WEAPONS OF ANY KIND.

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: DVK916
http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6462692

I am horrified they would considure this, the last thing we need is any guns on a college campus, having armed police it self is unsettleing (but I understand needed), now they want to arm faculty.

If my university did this, their would be huge protest.

You obviously do not posses the intelligence to continue posting here. I am tired of you trolling through Off Topic as if it were your own private fishing spot. Go troll someone else's forum.

AnandTech Moderator

:beer: for the mod!

Now to count the time before he returns as UCDAggies....

 

[illusion88]

OMG ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE??

I can't believe you. Even if someone else had a gun at VTech, do you really think they would have shot the killer? Is it there responsibility, their duty? Here in Utah, we had a shooting at a mall not too long ago. In this mall there were 6 people with CCW on them. Yet they hid and or ran, like they should have. It's not their job to take the law into their own hands. It's not any citizens job! It's not what you do!! Do you all want to be heroes is that it? Shoot the bad guy after he pops one or two people to prevent more loss of life. I hope one of you do, and I am going to laugh when they throw your ass in jail for murder.

What happened in UT and VA was a crime, but it is up to no one except the officers of the law to do anything about it. You people are crazy.

 

[BoberFett]

Ding dong the chin is dead!
Which old chin?
The big fat chin!
Ding dong the big fat chin is dead!

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: illusion88
OMG ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE??

I can't believe you. Even if someone else had a gun at VTech, do you really think they would have shot the killer? Is it there responsibility, their duty? Here in Utah, we had a shooting at a mall not too long ago. In this mall there were 6 people with CCW on them. Yet they hid and or ran, like they should have. It's not their job to take the law into their own hands. It's not any citizens job! It's not what you do!! Do you all want to be heroes is that it? Shoot the bad guy after he pops one or two people to prevent more loss of life. I hope one of you do, and I am going to laugh when they throw your ass in jail for murder.

What happened in UT and VA was a crime, but it is up to no one except the officers of the law to do anything about it. You people are crazy.

Self defense is never crazy. Only those people who don't believe we have a right to self defense are truly mad.

No one is saying a CCW holder should go out of their way to take on a spree shooter. Only be able to protect themseleves and their loved ones.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: illusion88
OMG ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE??

I can't believe you. Even if someone else had a gun at VTech, do you really think they would have shot the killer? Is it there responsibility, their duty? Here in Utah, we had a shooting at a mall not too long ago. In this mall there were 6 people with CCW on them. Yet they hid and or ran, like they should have. It's not their job to take the law into their own hands. It's not any citizens job! It's not what you do!! Do you all want to be heroes is that it? Shoot the bad guy after he pops one or two people to prevent more loss of life. I hope one of you do, and I am going to laugh when they throw your ass in jail for murder.

What happened in UT and VA was a crime, but it is up to no one except the officers of the law to do anything about it. You people are crazy.

Shooting someone in defense of others is not a crime. You're an idiot.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: illusion88
OMG ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE??

I can't believe you. Even if someone else had a gun at VTech, do you really think they would have shot the killer? Is it there responsibility, their duty? Here in Utah, we had a shooting at a mall not too long ago. In this mall there were 6 people with CCW on them. Yet they hid and or ran, like they should have. It's not their job to take the law into their own hands. It's not any citizens job! It's not what you do!! Do you all want to be heroes is that it? Shoot the bad guy after he pops one or two people to prevent more loss of life. I hope one of you do, and I am going to laugh when they throw your ass in jail for murder.

What happened in UT and VA was a crime, but it is up to no one except the officers of the law to do anything about it. You people are crazy.

I won't say they're crazy, but I do understand your sentiments.

Some people simply aren't capable of handling guns responsibly.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused
I don't know why I am responding to a thread created by you but...

One thing any THINKING person will realize is one only sees mass shootings and shooting sprees in places where the general public is UNARMED and/or guns are banned.

You NEVER see these where people are armed. When was the last time you heard of a successful shooting spree at a gun show? A gun range? A police station?

Nope, only in places and localities where the victims are sure to be unarmed.

Shooting sprees are impossible if the intended victims are armed. Shooting sprees are a prime example of why CCW is a GOOD idea.

Shooting sprees happen all the time in Iraq and Afghanistan. Seems like everyone is armed there.

Um... OK :roll:

Wanna try for a more realistic example?

Trying being a little less absolute next time, pal.

"Shooting sprees are impossible if the intended victims are armed."

Is easily contradicted and makes your whole argument week. If you said "Lots of deaths in a shooting sprees are rare if the intended victims are armed." Because, cmon, there's plenty of armed people that get shot to death everyday -- and plenty of spree-type killings perpetrated by Sunni or Shia militias in Iraq -- and most people there are armed.

Don't make absolute statements if they cannot possibly be proven.

There is a BIG difference between organized terrorists/armies/militia fighting battles and lone crazed gunmen in the US.

Just stop.

Of course there is. But you made an absolute statement THAT WOULD include those battles. You didn't say "lone crazed gumen" are typically ineffective against those with a CCW.

Dude, I have a CCW. I'm as pro-gun as they get. But, if you are going to make a weak argument I'm going to go after it.

You knew what I was implying. You're just being a prick.

No, I'm not. You just hate to ever admit that you used poor logic or a poor word choice. Because you are ALWAYS right, Amused. No one is ever as smart as you or can criticize anything you do. For once, take some constructive criticism.

Bullsh!t. You KNEW what I was talking about and like some cheap 2 dollar wanna be lawyer you decided to jump on it and try to "pwn" me because I didn't throw in every disclaimer known to man on the mistaken assumption that people could easily understand what I was talking about in the context of the discussion. Grow the fsck up.

Nice, ad-hom, but it wasn't some "2 dollar wanna be lawyer" trick. I didn't ask you to throw in disclaimers. You made an entirely absolute statement that is easily discredited and proved wrong, and it my estimate that is rather foolish. Do you want to debate this issue like an adult, or are you going to continue to pitch your little tantrum? Perhaps if you would take two seconds and consider my point of view and point you might find yourself willing to back down -- and you'd possibly look like less of a jackass.

People make mistakes; even you. Either you can accept that like a grown-up or you can continue to pout and say I have some kind of agenda or weird reasoning. Why can you not disagree in a normal, sensible way? I simply do not agree with your position. It is nothing personal. As I mentioned, you are one of my more favorite posters, but you can be extremely stubborn at times.

Oh my GAWD! Just stop. Your agenda was so obvious and pathetic even other people saw through it and felt compeled to call you on it.

My implication was obvious WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE THREAD TOPIC.

The irony is, you're doing the very thing you accuse me of.

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: illusion88
OMG ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE??

I can't believe you. Even if someone else had a gun at VTech, do you really think they would have shot the killer? Is it there responsibility, their duty? Here in Utah, we had a shooting at a mall not too long ago. In this mall there were 6 people with CCW on them. Yet they hid and or ran, like they should have. It's not their job to take the law into their own hands. It's not any citizens job! It's not what you do!! Do you all want to be heroes is that it? Shoot the bad guy after he pops one or two people to prevent more loss of life. I hope one of you do, and I am going to laugh when they throw your ass in jail for murder.

What happened in UT and VA was a crime, but it is up to no one except the officers of the law to do anything about it. You people are crazy.

OMGTOTALLYINSANELOL!

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Amused

Oh my GAWD! Just stop. Your agenda was so obvious and pathetic even other people saw through it and felt compeled to call you on it.

My implication was obvious WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE THREAD TOPIC.

The irony is, you're doing the very thing you accuse me of.

What is my agenda?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: illusion88
OMG ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE??

I can't believe you. Even if someone else had a gun at VTech, do you really think they would have shot the killer? Is it there responsibility, their duty? Here in Utah, we had a shooting at a mall not too long ago. In this mall there were 6 people with CCW on them. Yet they hid and or ran, like they should have. It's not their job to take the law into their own hands. It's not any citizens job! It's not what you do!! Do you all want to be heroes is that it? Shoot the bad guy after he pops one or two people to prevent more loss of life. I hope one of you do, and I am going to laugh when they throw your ass in jail for murder.

What happened in UT and VA was a crime, but it is up to no one except the officers of the law to do anything about it. You people are crazy.

And yet an off-duty cop was credited with helping to distract the assailant and may have even fired the kill shot that ended the rampage in Utah. He was doing what at the time? Concealed carry.

And nobody is saying to throw your life on the line or sacrifice it. Concealed carry does not mean going around being a hero. All it means is that you have a greater chance to defend yourself and your loved ones should the need arise.

And your murder comment is just ridiculous.

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Oh my GAWD! Just stop. Your agenda was so obvious and pathetic even other people saw through it and felt compeled to call you on it.

My implication was obvious WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE THREAD TOPIC.

The irony is, you're doing the very thing you accuse me of.

What is my agenda?

Would you two just agree to disagree? The nested quoting is killing me and is stealing the spotlight from the fact that DVK was banned again.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Oh my GAWD! Just stop. Your agenda was so obvious and pathetic even other people saw through it and felt compeled to call you on it.

My implication was obvious WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE THREAD TOPIC.

The irony is, you're doing the very thing you accuse me of.

What is my agenda?

Your obvious woody for me. Now stop.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: illusion88
OMG ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE??

I can't believe you. Even if someone else had a gun at VTech, do you really think they would have shot the killer? Is it there responsibility, their duty? Here in Utah, we had a shooting at a mall not too long ago. In this mall there were 6 people with CCW on them. Yet they hid and or ran, like they should have. It's not their job to take the law into their own hands. It's not any citizens job! It's not what you do!! Do you all want to be heroes is that it? Shoot the bad guy after he pops one or two people to prevent more loss of life. I hope one of you do, and I am going to laugh when they throw your ass in jail for murder.

What happened in UT and VA was a crime, but it is up to no one except the officers of the law to do anything about it. You people are crazy.

I would not seek out a spree shooter. If I heard gunshots in the distance, I would find a secure spot to hole up or leave the area. I'm not paid to protect the public at large. If I'm not directly involved in a situation, I don't know if the shooter was acting in self defense or any of the specifics of the situation. If I was in close proximity to somebody who was threatening my life or the lives of my friends and family, I would shoot them dead.

As a general policy, I avoid violence and confrontation. It is quite rare that I am in a situation where physical confrontation will help. That being said, if somebody brings violence upon me, I will not hesitate to respond in kind.

Edit: Follow up. You're a moron. Further loss of life was averted in that shooting because an off duty police officer was cocealed carrying and pinned down the shooter until uniformed officers arrived.