When things are considered "free" they tend to be overused. Ask any economist.
I however dont know any specefic examples of shortages or rationing in the german system, but such problem do arise often in univeral care systems.
When things are considered "free" they tend to be overused. Ask any economist.
I however dont know any specefic examples of shortages or rationing in the german system, but such problem do arise often in univeral care systems.
Let's be clear that I think the discussion is better served not by extrapolating what some ideology says should happen, that 'free' means overused which has some merit as theory, but rather by looking at the facts, since we have hundreds of millions of people under single-payer systems we can examine.
Not being the verbose type, I only have a few things to say.
We are spending billions, out of our country, fighting a rediculous war, where I see no win. Could spending a few billion in our own country to provide some medical care to the people who live here be a bad thing? Why not get some teeth fixed too, while we're at it?
That is not welfare, that is healthcare! There is a difference.
We are spending billions, out of our country, fighting a rediculous war, where I see no win. Could spending a few billion in our own country to provide some medical care to the people who live here be a bad thing? Why not get some teeth fixed too, while we're at it?
That is not welfare, that is healthcare! There is a difference.
1. It's a question of prioritization of resources. If we weren't giving trillions in tax cuts to the most wealthy, for example, that money would be available for more important things.
2. I think that single-payer healthcare will provide great economic benefits which greatly reduce any cost from it.
It'd take the burden off of business, making business more productive; it'd increase the health of the public, making the workforce more productive; it's be an investment in reducing more serious costs and emergency room treatment for those without healthcare; it'd convert the administration of the insurance from a very fat private system to a lean government system, the same way that social security is an incredibly efficient administration compared to how it would be if privatized.
Sorry, the right wingers' ideology alarms are sounding for them, but the facts say otherwise.
3. Doubt the fat? We're spending 40% of the world spending on 5% of the population for second-rate results around #27 among the advanced nations.
The question is, can we afford it? The answer is yes - and we need to look no further than that the rest of the world already does it.
The real, and underlying problem is, that most "spoiled" doctors here in the USA, would never work for the money that they make in countries with socialized, or universal health care. Let's call it what is is.
America is a capitalist society. Unfortunately, that leaves the lower echelons with lower benefits.
America is a capitalist society. Unfortunately, that leaves the lower echelons with lower benefits.
Compuwiz1, single-payer health care would provide for everyone; the wealthy could still pay for higher levels apart from that.
Yes, but...
The reality is, it's not gonna happen. It simpy does not serve the agenda of those who are in power.
Well, Compuwiz, the main purpose of a forum like this is for we the people to get to exchange some views and help build support for positions - the powers in charge are not omnipotent.
Craig, obviously, all of us are free to think and feel what we do, as we do have freedom of thought, and speech, but for how much longer, is anyone's guess.
Let's not be naive here. Nothing anyone here says is going to have any power over the current state. If it were different than that, the government, and all in it, would come here for their marching orders.
And those hundreds of millions by in large face shortages and rationing of services. Those are the facts.
So if we can deny more of the lower class people any healthcare then that will be good for the system. No shortages for the truley deserving people... like you.
Then hospitals and doctors can continue to increase their prices until the whole system finally collapses under it's own weight. Hopefully that won't happen until your dead though. Nice plan, just keep your head stuck in that hole because what you can't see can't hurt you.
No my goal is not to deny healthcare to the lower class, but shortgage and rationing is a reality of the universal healthcare that many people want. OUr healthcare system needs work, but the answer is not goverment run healthcare.
Our healthcare system has needed work for 30 years, but all it gets is lip service about how universal healhtcare will degrade the level of service.
Maybe it will for some, but the steadily rising number of people without ANY healthcare aren't too concerned about that. Clearly we need a plan where everbody has a basic level of healthcare.
Maybe it will for some, but the steadily rising number of people without ANY healthcare aren't too concerned about that. Clearly we need a plan where everbody has a basic level of healthcare.
single payer healthcare would create a monster. In germany, 70000 physicians have been on strike because the physicians work 80 hrs/week and are paid for 40. by keeping a pseudo private practice model alive in the US, the insurers divide and conquer. they work the laws of supply and demand to fit their budgets. and physicians dance to their tune. Hospitals are far fewer in number and also provide 'bricks and mortar'- a place for the sick to crash-they therefore have significantly more leverage with the insurers. Hospital budgets are orders of magnitude greater than what physicians command-take chemotherapy for example, thousands of dollars a dose, for what is essentially an IV toxin that works by mass action and only crudely exploits the biology of the disease. single payer healthcare would create a physician force that would truly upset the balance of power. Instead, our country is moving to eliminating the 'payer' altogether. Doctors will not not be able to submit bills to get paid-they will simply get a salary.
This is evident in many hospitals today where a new breed of physician is appearring-the 'hospitalist'-you see your family doctor on the outside and a hospitalist whiile in hospital.
in the history of the us, other community services have been private practice that are now state run - firemen for example would only respond to fires on the properties of their clients. Why did that system fail? We still have some degree of private control-we can buy fire extinguishers and put in sprinkler systems.
the pinkertons were a private agency long before the FBI, why did they disappear? (superceded by a national model). we can still pay more for security in the form of alarm systems.
health care will ultimately get there. when you're at home, you'll fire up the microsoft healthcare appliance and it will monitor and log your basic healthcare parameters - ministress test at home, cholesterol screening, PSA testing, and whatever else you want to PAY FOR. When you get really sick, you go to the emergency room/hospital where your tax dollars take over (and the costs are controllable)
This is evident in many hospitals today where a new breed of physician is appearring-the 'hospitalist'-you see your family doctor on the outside and a hospitalist whiile in hospital.
in the history of the us, other community services have been private practice that are now state run - firemen for example would only respond to fires on the properties of their clients. Why did that system fail? We still have some degree of private control-we can buy fire extinguishers and put in sprinkler systems.
the pinkertons were a private agency long before the FBI, why did they disappear? (superceded by a national model). we can still pay more for security in the form of alarm systems.
health care will ultimately get there. when you're at home, you'll fire up the microsoft healthcare appliance and it will monitor and log your basic healthcare parameters - ministress test at home, cholesterol screening, PSA testing, and whatever else you want to PAY FOR. When you get really sick, you go to the emergency room/hospital where your tax dollars take over (and the costs are controllable)
You tell me, what do you consider to be "basic" for yourself? It would have to be good enough to actually do some good and prevent easily correctable problems from becoming big, expensive problems.
I can plan a trip to the moon, but funding it is another story. That's why we have 40 million Amercians without nealth insurance in the first place.
That 40million does not need to be 40 million, but it does not require universal health care to improve the either.
IF you change jobs for whatever reason, you lose your health care. A catastophic plan you buy yourself, instead of letting your boss buyt it for you, would alleviate the loss of healthcare while switching jobs. We are responsable for buying life, auto and home insurance, why should healthcare be any different.
There are those that are young and dont think buying insurance is a good deal. A hundred a month in premiums for someone who does not need to see a doctor is just not a good deal.
Once these two groups have been better addressed, we can then deal with those that truely dont have enough money for healthcare.
My Dad is a physician, and I'm currently in medical school, so I know a thing or two about healthcare.
Not having health insurance is not the same thing as not getting healthcare. For one, a lot of those people are covered by Medicare/Medicaid. The rest have made a decision not to buy healthcare, because they think paying their doctor $50 for a yearly checkup is cheaper than paying health premiums each month.
In this country, EVERYONE gets healthcare. The other day a surgeon was talking about how in America, when it comes to healthcare, "Everyone gets the Cadillac, even if they can't afford the Chevy." For example, everyone with end stage renal disease gets put on dialysis here, whereas in England - a nation with socialized healthcare - the criteria for dialysis is very stringent, the number of dialysis units are limited, and most folks with kidney failure are told "good luck, you've got 2 years to live."
The other day, a patient who said to another surgeon, "I don't have insurance right now" was told by the surgeon, "Don't worry, I haven't operated on an insurance card in a long time."
EVERYONE gets healthcare here. And I mean EVERYONE. We do $40,000 pancreas operations on bums who walk in off the street who haven't earned that kind of money in a lifetime. And who pays for it? You do.
If anything, we need to move towards a system that's less socialized than the one we have right now. The policy here in America is that if you have the money for it, you pay for your own healthcare, but if you don't, you're entitled to almost unlimited treatments/privelages at the taxpayers expense. The costs are simply unbearable. No "socialized" healthcare system is as generous or as truly socialized as what we currently have here in the States, mainly because they put limits on the extent that you can be treated - to control costs for the taxpayers. Those are the kinds of limits that we need for Medicare/Medicaid, not an expansion of them or a creation of a new, even more widely encompassing social healthcare system.
Not having health insurance is not the same thing as not getting healthcare. For one, a lot of those people are covered by Medicare/Medicaid. The rest have made a decision not to buy healthcare, because they think paying their doctor $50 for a yearly checkup is cheaper than paying health premiums each month.
In this country, EVERYONE gets healthcare. The other day a surgeon was talking about how in America, when it comes to healthcare, "Everyone gets the Cadillac, even if they can't afford the Chevy." For example, everyone with end stage renal disease gets put on dialysis here, whereas in England - a nation with socialized healthcare - the criteria for dialysis is very stringent, the number of dialysis units are limited, and most folks with kidney failure are told "good luck, you've got 2 years to live."
The other day, a patient who said to another surgeon, "I don't have insurance right now" was told by the surgeon, "Don't worry, I haven't operated on an insurance card in a long time."
EVERYONE gets healthcare here. And I mean EVERYONE. We do $40,000 pancreas operations on bums who walk in off the street who haven't earned that kind of money in a lifetime. And who pays for it? You do.
If anything, we need to move towards a system that's less socialized than the one we have right now. The policy here in America is that if you have the money for it, you pay for your own healthcare, but if you don't, you're entitled to almost unlimited treatments/privelages at the taxpayers expense. The costs are simply unbearable. No "socialized" healthcare system is as generous or as truly socialized as what we currently have here in the States, mainly because they put limits on the extent that you can be treated - to control costs for the taxpayers. Those are the kinds of limits that we need for Medicare/Medicaid, not an expansion of them or a creation of a new, even more widely encompassing social healthcare system.
That's because they count on the lower service classes to die off, but no worries as long as there is plenty more where they came from especially streaming across the open southern border.
So that's your answer to the Serfs, just die off, we'll treat the rich so they out a full life, bye bye now?
Oh though holy, mighty and powerful one, thank you may I have another?
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