Universal Health Care Vermont....Not Just Yet

[Angry Irishman]

How does this turn of events bode for the remainder of states? As much as I tend to disagree with the concept (I have mixed opinions) I think it's really just a matter of time before universal health care in the US is reality. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be covered under military Tricare as retired military....so many Americans aren't as fortunate.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/12/17/us/ap-us-health-overhaul-vermont.html?_r=0

 

[inachu]

Some facts many do not know is that if you are of the following religions that you do not need to sign up for Obamacare:

Amish,Scientology,Watch Tower,CSM(Christian Science Monitor type people) Also known as Christian Scientists and pretty much any other religion that is based on self sufficiency.

 

[soulcougher73]

At least he was smart to abandon it then try to ram it threw knowing how costly it would be. There is a lot more to UHC than paying for it. He would also have to tackle the costs of service rendered. Right now he is trying to fund something that is out of control price wise.

 

[Caravaggio]

How does this turn of events bode for the remainder of states? As much as I tend to disagree with the concept (I have mixed opinions) I think it's really just a matter of time before universal health care in the US is reality.

You are right. It is inevitable. It is also associated with greater happiness and increased life span. Check out international data.
What's not to like?
Why are Americans so afraid of the system that works well elsewhere?
Sure, tax will go up, but so will care provision.

 

[soulcougher73]

You are right. It is inevitable. It is also associated with greater happiness and increased life span. Check out international data.
What's not to like?
Why are Americans so afraid of the system that works well elsewhere?
Sure, tax will go up, but so will care provision.

Most over look the fact that if UHC was implemented you would not have these outrageous health insurance premiums anymore. They just see taxes go up and freak out. My guess is that premiums for most people would cost way more than any tax increase we may see.

 

[Caravaggio]

Agreed. The insurance companies will be the losers.

 

[boomerang]

Show me a country with UHC with the scale of the U.S. I'm talking from a population perspective. Then tell me how a government that can't run a healthcare system for veterans will run one covering not just the citizens of the nation but that includes anyone that crosses our unsecured borders and keep in mind that those folks are numbered in the tens of millions and growing exponentially.

Now factor in that the nation is borrowing huge sums of money to stay afloat.

We can't even walk with any degree of efficiency in this nation and some of you expect us to run marathons and win.

 

[cabri]

Most over look the fact that if UHC was implemented you would not have these outrageous health insurance premiums anymore. They just see taxes go up and freak out. My guess is that premiums for most people would cost way more than any tax increase we may see.

Based on the article it would require roughly an additional 10% tax on business and people to cover the cost.

It would hurt the business community heavily.

Unless people are paying 10% for insurance now, they would feel the pain. No subsidies.

Plus the Feds would not be helping the state.

 

[ivwshane]

Show me a country with UHC with the scale of the U.S. I'm talking from a population perspective. Then tell me how a government that can't run a healthcare system for veterans will run one covering not just the citizens of the nation but that includes anyone that crosses our unsecured borders and keep in mind that those folks are numbered in the tens of millions and growing exponentially.

Now factor in that the nation is borrowing huge sums of money to stay afloat.

We can't even walk with any degree of efficiency in this nation and some of you expect us to run marathons and win.

Says the guy who not only thinks government is broken and inefficient he also continues to vote for politicians that aren't interested in fixing or making government more efficient.


"I hate government! Vote for me so I can make it worse!" - says boomerang and every other fucking right wing idiot!

 

[ivwshane]

Based on the article it would require roughly an additional 10% tax on business and people to cover the cost.

It would hurt the business community heavily.

Unless people are paying 10% for insurance now, they would feel the pain. No subsidies.

Plus the Feds would not be helping the state.

10%? I'm pretty sure every business (at least the large corporations) would rather pay an extra 10% in tax as compared to the amount they spend on health care.

GM pays around 5 billion for insurance for their 1 million employees, that's not even including their indirect subsidizing of Medicare and medicade.

So no, it wouldn't hurt the business community, what we have now is hurting them.

http://www.cfr.org/competitiveness/healthcare-costs-us-competitiveness/p13325

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I think it's wonderful that politicians who are entirely unaccountable, who create wars they don't understand the consequences of and are so reprehensible that they ignore demonstrated wrongs as if they never happened. These terrific people who can't handle something as simple as Iraq or bring peace to the ME will take over and install an unassailable bureaucracy which will provide medicine by regulation.

Good luck.

 

[Sir Thumpsalot]

Says the guy who not only thinks government is broken and inefficient he also continues to vote for politicians that aren't interested in fixing or making government more efficient.


"I hate government! Vote for me so I can make it worse!" - says boomerang and every other fucking right wing idiot!

Its not that we hate the government. It is that it has grown to large and unwieldily. This is undeniable.
What we would like is for the government to be restored to the Constitutional limitations that should have been honored in the first place.

We hate the corrupt politicians and lazy imbecile voters that allowed it to happen in the first place. We hate the naive idiots who think that Government is the solution to most anything, when in actuality government has become the problem.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Show me a country with UHC with the scale of the U.S. I'm talking from a population perspective. Then tell me how a government that can't run a healthcare system for veterans will run one covering not just the citizens of the nation but that includes anyone that crosses our unsecured borders and keep in mind that those folks are numbered in the tens of millions and growing exponentially.

Now factor in that the nation is borrowing huge sums of money to stay afloat.

We can't even walk with any degree of efficiency in this nation and some of you expect us to run marathons and win.

So Americans are idiots who are incapable of doing what the rest of the developed world is able to do?

Why do you hate your country and it's people so much? In fact, why haven't you moved to a country that's more competent if you have no faith in your own country?

 

[Sir Thumpsalot]

So Americans are idiots who are incapable of doing what the rest of the developed world is able to do?

Why do you hate your country and it's people so much? In fact, why haven't you moved to a country that's more competent if you have no faith in your own country?

The way I see it, the rest of the world hasn't done as wonderful of a job as you want to believe.
Liberals love to advertise the good while leaving out the bad. They almost sound like a bad Michael Moore movie (well, they are bad regardless...).
Europe is drowning in debt, healthcare while cheap or free is also becoming overrun, taxes are choking the populace. And it is expected to get worse. Eventually Europe will become like Greece if things continue on this path. The current EU economic and social policies are unsustainable on several different fronts.

http://www.bruegel.org/publications...lem-and-its-implications-for-economic-growth/

In short, the EU is hanging by an economic and social thread. In short, they are likely fucked if the current path continues. You can't keep taxing the hell out of the population before something eventually gives.

 

[Sonikku]

May have been a good idea back in the 40's. Too late now.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Show me a country with UHC with the scale of the U.S. I'm talking from a population perspective. Then tell me how a government that can't run a healthcare system for veterans will run one covering not just the citizens of the nation but that includes anyone that crosses our unsecured borders and keep in mind that those folks are numbered in the tens of millions and growing exponentially.

Now factor in that the nation is borrowing huge sums of money to stay afloat.

We can't even walk with any degree of efficiency in this nation and some of you expect us to run marathons and win.

efficiency != effectiveness

 

[Zorkorist]

How does this turn of events bode for the remainder of states? As much as I tend to disagree with the concept (I have mixed opinions) I think it's really just a matter of time before universal health care in the US is reality. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be covered under military Tricare as retired military....so many Americans aren't as fortunate.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/12/17/us/ap-us-health-overhaul-vermont.html?_r=0

You are extremely lucky to be covered under Tricare.

Most of us, are not.

-John

 

[Moonbeam]

Its not that we hate the government. It is that it has grown to large and unwieldily. This is undeniable.
What we would like is for the government to be restored to the Constitutional limitations that should have been honored in the first place.

We hate the corrupt politicians and lazy imbecile voters that allowed it to happen in the first place. We hate the naive idiots who think that Government is the solution to most anything, when in actuality government has become the problem.

You speak as if constitutional limits weren't something people debate rather than universally agree on. Wanna say what they are?

 

[Moonbeam]

You are extremely lucky to be covered under Tricare.

Most of us, are not.

-John

On the other hand, a lot of people who weren't covered under anything now are.

 

[Zorkorist]

Obama Care seeks to make the rest of us as lucky as you are, by socializing medicine.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

On the other hand, a lot of people who weren't covered under anything now are.

They are fake covered, Moonbeam, as America has no money to pay the Doctors, Nurses, etc.

Just like this person who served us in the military, is fake covered.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

At artificially high prices, I might add.

Obama Care is an Obamanation.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

He used to be really covered... Tricare was golden in the health care industry. Today, after ObamaCare, not so much.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

We're all golden.

<wry grin>

-John

 

[theeedude]

Can only be done at the national level, IMO. Otherwise you run into adverse selection issues.