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United States of France?

SP33Demon

Lifer
Link.

How We Became the United States of France
By Bill Saporito
Sunday, Sep. 21, 2008

This is the state of our great republic: We've nationalized the financial system, taking control from Wall Street bankers we no longer trust. We're about to quasi-nationalize the Detroit auto companies via massive loans because they're a source of American pride, and too many jobs ? and votes ? are at stake. Our Social Security system is going broke as we head for a future where too many retirees will be supported by too few workers. How long before we have national healthcare? Put it all together, and the America that emerges is a cartoonish version of the country most despised by red-meat red-state patriots: France. Only with worse food.

Admit it, mes amis, the rugged individualism and cutthroat capitalism that made America the land of unlimited opportunity has been shrink-wrapped by a half dozen short sellers in Greenwich, Conn. and FedExed to Washington D.C. to be spoon-fed back to life by Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson. We're now no different from any of those Western European semi-socialist welfare states that we love to deride. Italy? Sure, it's had four governments since last Thursday, but none of them would have allowed this to go on; the Italians know how to rig an economy.

You just know the Frogs have only increased their disdain for us, if that is indeed possible. And why shouldn't they? The average American is working two and half jobs, gets two weeks off, and has all the employment security of a one-armed trapeze artist. The Bush Administration has preached the "ownership society" to America: own your house, own your retirement account; you don't need the government in your way. So Americans mortgaged themselves to the hilt to buy overpriced houses they can no longer afford and signed up for 401k programs that put money where, exactly? In the stock market! Where rich Republicans fleeced them.

Now our laissez-faire (hey, a French word) regulation-averse Administration has made France's only Socialist president, Francois Mitterand, look like Adam Smith by comparison. All Mitterand did was nationalize France's big banks and insurance companies in 1982; he didn't have to deal with bankers who didn't want to lend money, as Paulson does. When the state runs the banks, they are merely cows to be milked in the service of la patrie. France doesn't have the mortgage crisis that we do, either. In bailing out mortgage lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, our government has basically turned America into the largest subsidized housing project in the world. Sure, France has its banlieus, where it likes to warehouse people who aren't French enough (meaning, immigrants or Algerians) in huge apartment blocks. But the bulk of French homeowners are curiously free of subprime mortgages foisted on them by fellow citizens, and they aren't over their heads in personal debt.

We've always dismissed the French as exquisitely fed wards of their welfare state. They work, what, 27 hours in a good week, have 19 holidays a month, go on strike for two days and enjoy a glass of wine every day with lunch ? except for the 25% of the population that works for the government, who have an even sweeter deal. They retire before their kids finish high school, and they don't have to save for a $45,000-a-year college tuition because college is free. For this, they pay a tax rate of about 103%, and their labor laws are so restrictive that they haven't had a net gain in jobs since Napoleon. There is no way that the French government can pay for this lifestyle forever, except that it somehow does.

Mitterand tried to create both job-growth and wage-growth by nationalizing huge swaths of the economy, including some big industries, including automaker Renault, for instance. You haven't driven a Renault lately because Renault couldn't sell them here. Imagine that. An auto company that couldn't compete with a Dodge Colt. But the Renault takeover ultimately proved successful and Renault became a private company again in 1996, although the government retains about 15% of the shares.

Now the U.S. is faced with the same prospect in the auto industry. GM and Ford need money to develop greener cars that can compete with Toyota and Honda. And they're looking to Uncle Sam for investment ? an investment that could have been avoided had Washington imposed more stringent mileage standards years earlier. But we don't want to interfere with market forces like the French do ? until we do.

Mitterand's nationalization program and other economic reforms failed, as the development of the European Market made a centrally planned economy obsolete. The Rothschilds got their bank back, a little worse for wear. These days, France sashays around the issue of protectionism in a supposedly unfettered EU by proclaiming some industries to be national champions worthy of extra consideration ? you know, special needs kids. And we're not talking about pastry chefs, but the likes of GDF Suez, a major utility. I never thought of the stocks and junk securities sold by Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley as unique, but clearly Washington does. Morgan's John Mack calls SEC boss Chris Cox to whine about short sellers and bingo, the government obliges. The elite serve the elite. How French is that?

Even in the strongest sectors in the U.S., there's no getting away from the French influence. Nothing is more sacred to France than its farmers. They get whatever they demand, and they demand a lot. And if there are any issues about price supports, or feed costs being too high, or actual competition from other countries, French farmers simply shut down the country by marching their livestock up the Champs Elysee and piling up wheat on the highways. U.S. farmers would never resort to such behavior. They don't have to: they're the most coddled special interest group in U.S. history, lavished with $180 billion in subsidies by both parties, even when their products are fetching record prices. One consequence: U.S. consumers pay twice what the French pay for sugar, because of price guarantees. We're more French than France.

So yes, while we're still willing to work ourselves to death for the privilege of paying off our usurious credit cards, we can no longer look contemptuously at the land of 246 cheeses. Kraft Foods has replaced American International Group in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, the insurance company having been added to Paulson's nationalized portfolio. Macaroni and cheese has supplanted credit default swaps at the fulcrum of capitalism. And one more thing: the food snob French love McDonalds, which does a fantastic business there. They know a good freedom fry when they taste one.
There are some interesting parrallels drawn to France, especially after the bailout. Are we becoming more like France? Agree, disagree?
 
You know, I am reading all of these hysterical things and the fact of the matter is that with the past several weeks news, many of them sound extremely plausible now. It's increasingly hard to laugh off such news stories when a person compares their claims and their prerequisites to what is actually occuring in the US at this very moment.
 
Heh, not quite. We are not yet taxed high enough...nor do we receive universal health care, 35-hour work week, all that vacation, great public transportation system, etc.

The taxes will probably come but we'll never get around to the latter. Someday, the only government expense we'll be able to afford is the interest on our federal debt.

Forget anything else.

Debt spending, from the government, to Wall St., to Main St., has built us all a house of cards that will rapidly collapse.
 
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Heh, not quite. We are not yet taxed high enough...nor do we receive universal health care, 35-hour work week, all that vacation, great public transportation system, etc.

The taxes will probably come but we'll never get around to the latter. Someday, the only government expense we'll be able to afford is the interest on our federal debt.

Forget anything else.

Debt spending, from the government, to Wall St., to Main St., has built us all a house of cards that will rapidly collapse.
Well, do you think we're heading in the direction of ultra taxation due to this humongous deficit now? Would you like to live in France or a country like it?

 
I read this article this morning also, and it makes some pretty good points. I'm kind of surprised at the reaction from so-called conservatives over the last couple of weeks. I would think they'd be marching in the streets in protest of nationalizing / bailing out so many companies. But I guess it goes to show that true fiscal conservatives are rare, and that most of the self-proclaimed are just repeating the talking points they heard on Fox or Rush, and embracing current republican financial policy as sagacious. If a democrat was in the white house, I would wager that there would in fact be protests in the streets against the massive liberal conspiracy to fully convert this society to "communism".
 
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
I read this article this morning also, and it makes some pretty good points. I'm kind of surprised at the reaction from so-called conservatives over the last couple of weeks. I would think they'd be marching in the streets in protest of nationalizing / bailing out so many companies. But I guess it goes to show that true fiscal conservatives are rare, and that most of the self-proclaimed are just repeating the talking points they heard on Fox or Rush, and embracing current republican financial policy as sagacious. If a democrat was in the white house, I would wager that there would in fact be protests in the streets against the massive liberal conspiracy to fully convert this society to "communism".
As i champion when possible, republicans over the past three decades have grown government faster than democrats. As another has pointed out, Republicans are all for big government, but only if it's their big government.

 
One of the items from that article that struck me was the dollar amount for farm subsidies. I mean I knew we had some but I didn't know they were that large. :shocked:
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Link.

How We Became the United States of France
By Bill Saporito
Sunday, Sep. 21, 2008

Admit it, mes amis, the rugged individualism and cutthroat capitalism that made America the land of unlimited opportunity has been shrink-wrapped by a half dozen short sellers in Greenwich, Conn. and FedExed to Washington D.C. to be spoon-fed back to life by Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson.

The average American is working two and half jobs, gets two weeks off, and has all the employment security of a one-armed trapeze artist.

The Bush Administration has preached the "ownership society" to America: own your house, own your retirement account; you don't need the government in your way.

So Americans mortgaged themselves to the hilt to buy overpriced houses they can no longer afford and signed up for 401k programs that put money where, exactly?

In the stock market!


Where rich Republicans fleeced them.

Now our laissez-faire (hey, a French word) regulation-averse Administration has made France's only Socialist president, Francois Mitterand, look like Adam Smith by comparison.

All Mitterand did was nationalize France's big banks and insurance companies in 1982;

he didn't have to deal with bankers who didn't want to lend money, as Paulson does.

When the state runs the banks, they are merely cows to be milked in the service of la patrie.

France doesn't have the mortgage crisis that we do, either.

In bailing out mortgage lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, our government has basically turned America into the largest subsidized housing project in the world.

Sure, France has its banlieus, where it likes to warehouse people who aren't French enough (meaning, immigrants or Algerians) in huge apartment blocks.

But the bulk of French homeowners are curiously free of subprime mortgages foisted on them by fellow citizens, and they aren't over their heads in personal debt.

We've always dismissed the French as exquisitely fed wards of their welfare state. They work, what, 27 hours in a good week, have 19 holidays a month, go on strike for two days and enjoy a glass of wine every day with lunch ? except for the 25% of the population that works for the government, who have an even sweeter deal.

They retire before their kids finish high school, and they don't have to save for a $45,000-a-year college tuition because college is free.

For this, they pay a tax rate of about 103%, and their labor laws are so restrictive that they haven't had a net gain in jobs since Napoleon.

There is no way that the French government can pay for this lifestyle forever, except that it somehow does.

Mitterand tried to create both job-growth and wage-growth by nationalizing huge swaths of the economy, including some big industries, including automaker Renault, for instance.

You haven't driven a Renault lately because Renault couldn't sell them here. Imagine that.

An auto company that couldn't compete with a Dodge Colt.

But the Renault takeover ultimately proved successful and Renault became a private company again in 1996, although the government retains about 15% of the shares.

Now the U.S. is faced with the same prospect in the auto industry. GM and Ford need money to develop greener cars that can compete with Toyota and Honda.

And they're looking to Uncle Sam for investment ? an investment that could have been avoided had Washington imposed more stringent mileage standards years earlier.

But we don't want to interfere with market forces like the French do ? until we do.

Morgan's John Mack calls SEC boss Chris Cox to whine about short sellers and bingo, the government obliges.

The elite serve the elite. How French is that?



Even in the strongest sectors in the U.S., there's no getting away from the French influence.

Nothing is more sacred to France than its farmers.

They get whatever they demand, and they demand a lot. And if there are any issues about price supports, or feed costs being too high, or actual competition from other countries,

French farmers simply shut down the country by marching their livestock up the Champs Elysee and piling up wheat on the highways.

U.S. farmers would never resort to such behavior. They don't have to: they're the most coddled special interest group in U.S. history, lavished with $180 billion in subsidies by both parties, even when their products are fetching record prices.

One consequence: U.S. consumers pay twice what the French pay for sugar, because of price guarantees.

We're more French than France.

So yes, while we're still willing to work ourselves to death for the privilege of paying off our usurious credit cards, we can no longer look contemptuously at the land of 246 cheeses.

Kraft Foods has replaced American International Group in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, the insurance company having been added to Paulson's nationalized portfolio.

Macaroni and cheese has supplanted credit default swaps at the fulcrum of capitalism.

And one more thing: the food snob French love McDonalds, which does a fantastic business there.

They know a good freedom fry when they taste one.

There are some interesting parrallels drawn to France, especially after the bailout.

Are we becoming more like France?

Agree, disagree?

No, sounds like French citizens are better off.
 
Having lived in France, they definitely have a sweeter deal than Americans do. I don't get it. Why is it so hard for us to elect competent leaders that can increase our quality of living?
 
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Heh, not quite. We are not yet taxed high enough...nor do we receive universal health care, 35-hour work week, all that vacation, great public transportation system, etc.

The taxes will probably come but we'll never get around to the latter. Someday, the only government expense we'll be able to afford is the interest on our federal debt.

Forget anything else.

Debt spending, from the government, to Wall St., to Main St., has built us all a house of cards that will rapidly collapse.

All the debt you are talking about is trivial compared to the $53trillion in liabilites the US has with Social Security and Medicare.

Thats the real house of cards.
 
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Heh, not quite. We are not yet taxed high enough...nor do we receive universal health care, 35-hour work week, all that vacation, great public transportation system, etc.

The taxes will probably come but we'll never get around to the latter. Someday, the only government expense we'll be able to afford is the interest on our federal debt.

Forget anything else.

Debt spending, from the government, to Wall St., to Main St., has built us all a house of cards that will rapidly collapse.

All the debt you are talking about is trivial compared to the $53trillion in liabilites the US has with Social Security and Medicare.

Thats the real house of cards.

Which can be removed with a stroke of a pen.
 
Originally posted by: racolvin
One of the items from that article that struck me was the dollar amount for farm subsidies. I mean I knew we had some but I didn't know they were that large. :shocked:

I hate to think about how much tax payer money is wasted on growing sugar in south florida.
 
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Heh, not quite. We are not yet taxed high enough...nor do we receive universal health care, 35-hour work week, all that vacation, great public transportation system, etc.

The taxes will probably come but we'll never get around to the latter. Someday, the only government expense we'll be able to afford is the interest on our federal debt.

Forget anything else.

Debt spending, from the government, to Wall St., to Main St., has built us all a house of cards that will rapidly collapse.

All the debt you are talking about is trivial compared to the $53trillion in liabilites the US has with Social Security and Medicare.

Thats the real house of cards.

Which can be removed with a stroke of a pen.

And what about all the money I've paid in? Do I get a refund?
 
Originally posted by: ayabe
Ahh but one thing France can't afford is OUR military.


Wait, we can't afford it either, well fuck.
France doesn't give a sht half the time, so it's a moot point. 😉

 
I think a lot of this sounds like hysterical crap, but consider this...if we ARE moving away from traditional American ideas, it's not because those ideas have worked out super well. Free markets gave us our current financial problems, is more government intervention such a bad idea?
 
USA becoming more like France? Let me know when American women stop shaving

[Jack Black]
Women like that are so hot!
[/Jack Black]
 
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