United & Orbitz Suing Cheap Airfare Site

[Bearmann]

Story here:

http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/29/news/united-orbitz-sue-skiplagged-22/

He is collecting funds for his legal battle against the big boys.

 

[Zaap]

I'm curious why the airlines are so dead set against "skiplagging" in the first place. Its so restrictive to actually get a good travel deal (one way ticket, just carry-on bag) that it really only benefits a tiny fraction of travelers.

Most people aren't going somewhere with no return plans and no luggage to speak of, and most that tried this for normal travel would probably find its a heck of a lot more expensive to try buying two one way flights to/from where you're going than a normal round trip.

 

[Brainonska511]

Most people aren't going somewhere with no return plans and no luggage to speak of, and most that tried this for normal travel would probably find its a heck of a lot more expensive to try buying two one way flights to/from where you're going than a normal round trip.

When I was looking to fly to Dallas last summer, there were some days where it was cheaper to fly through Dallas to Austin (one-ways each way) than it was to fly directly to Dallas (round-trip).

 

[senseamp]

We flew to Eastern Europe with a connection through Amsterdam last year, and it was $200 cheaper than flying to Amsterdam. I thought it was some sort of tax thing.

 

[ElFenix]

We flew to Eastern Europe with a connection through Amsterdam last year, and it was $200 cheaper than flying to Amsterdam. I thought it was some sort of tax thing.

airlines compete on end to end trips. could be that another airline (turkish?) was pricing a trip from your start to your end at a similar price to what you ended up paying.

at least, i think that's a lot of it.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I have to pay for 3 tickets to Brazil to see a wedding in January..... $3600.... Fuck me in the ass. How 'bout dem fuel charges eh?

Fuck you airliners. Fuck you in the ass. I'm honestly sick and tired of travel. It seems like coach is for luxury people these days because I can't afford shit like this every month.

 

[Zaap]

I have to pay for 3 tickets to Brazil to see a wedding in January..... $3600.... Fuck me in the ass. How 'bout dem fuel charges eh?

Fuck you airliners. Fuck you in the ass. I'm honestly sick and tired of travel. It seems like coach is for luxury people these days because I can't afford shit like this every month.

$1200 round trip to Brazil is excessive? Doesn't really sound like it to me.

And why would you be doing that every month?


And this whole subject to me just exposes some inefficiencies the airlines have to address themselves, rather than find an easy scapegoat. If they're willing have a flight from (per example) Austin via Dallas cheaper than origin to Dallas direct- then... live with it when people find out and do whatever work-arounds to exploit the cheaper fare. I just don't believe it's that many people to affect their bottom line that much.

That, or charge more to fly to Austin via Dallas, less to Dallas directly, or charge penalties on a return connecting flight from anyone holding a ticket from the original destination that wasn't on that flight, etc.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

$1200 round trip to Brazil is excessive? Doesn't really sound like it to me.

And why would you be doing that every month?

This is $1200 round trip out of Miami - if you know anything about Miami and Florida in general, it is THE HUB for Brazil. It is hands down the cheapest you can get for Brazil flights. This is also, just after the price of fuel plummeted from $4/gallon to under $2/gallon. The price is NORMALLY around ~$900-1000 prior to the price of fuel going down.

I have to travel fairly often, since we have family in different parts of the US and the world.

That, or charge more to fly to Austin via Dallas, less to Dallas directly, or charge penalties on a return connecting flight from anyone holding a ticket from the original destination that wasn't on that flight, etc.

Did you just say charge someone when they AREN'T on a flight? Que? They paid for their ticket. That was the charge, you can't be serious in saying the idea of implementing a fee for not taking advantage of a seat you purchased....

 

[Zaap]

Did you just say charge someone when they AREN'T on a flight? Que? They paid for their ticket. That was the charge, you can't be serious in saying the idea of implementing a fee for not taking advantage of a seat you purchased....

Hey, I don't have to like it, but I'm just saying it's their "problem" to fix.

They're charging less for a flight with an extra leg someone isn't using than a direct flight. They can fix that problem for themselves using a more logical pricing system, or applying penalties that would eliminate the loophole. It's their service, they can do what they want with it.

Scapegoating someone for creating a site that points out their own stupid policy that they could possibly correct themselves is not the way to handle it.

 

[Exterous]

The biggest reason this is an issue is that his website is allowing passengers to book tickets that are to be used in direct contradiction to the contract passengers agree to when purchasing the ticket. For example from the UA COC:

Fares apply for travel only between the points for which they are published. Tickets may not be purchased and used at fare(s) from an initial departure point on the Ticket which is before the Passenger’s actual point of origin of travel, or to a more distant point(s) than the Passenger’s actual destination being traveled even when the purchase and use of such Tickets would produce a lower fare. This practice is known as “Hidden Cities Ticketing” or “Point Beyond Ticketing” and is prohibited by UA.

Furthermore - reading the suit there is also a complaint that Skiplagged had a contract with United and Orbitz but violated said contract. They were told to stop this practice but continued anyway. I don't have the contract to read to know if thats a valid complaint or not

I do see another potential issue with this. Looking at the site I don't see a lot of information about what can happen to you if plans go awry. The airline is under no obligation to get you to the listed connection airports - only to your final destination. It would be quite easy for mechanical, weather issues or even planned re-routing to strand you in a completely different city\state\country with you being responsible for getting a ticket to your actual planned destination. Skipplagged just gives a very general "your itinerary may change at the airlines discretion" without really going into the full risks of booking a hidden city itinerary. I also hope you aren't forced to gate check your luggage. Sometimes it only becomes available again at your final destination

They can fix that problem for themselves using a more logical pricing system, or applying penalties that would eliminate the loophole. It's their service, they can do what they want with it.

It may appear illogical to the consumer but there are a variety of reasons it makes logical sense to the airline companies (Ex: competition sales at an airport, trying to grow a hub, airline alliance routings etc). And they already do apply penalties if caught

Scapegoating someone for creating a site that points out their own stupid policy that they could possibly correct themselves is not the way to handle it.

Stupid or not it is their policy and you do agree to it when you buy the ticket. FF accounts have been closed and FF miles forfeited for this practice. By doing this you risk (expressly stated in the CoCs):
Refusal to board
Closure of Frequent Flier account
Confiscation or Miles
Loss of status
Banned from airline

Of course if you do this infrequently the risks are minimal as people miss connections all the time for valid reasons. However, there are people on Flyertalk who have been warned and had accounts closed so the risk is there and I don't see this noted anywhere on skipplagged website.

FWIW other sites will show the same data and have for years but are not as blatant about it

 

[marvdmartian]

Yeah, because no travel agent or agency EVER suggested someone do something so sneaky, so underhanded.....so downright WRONG!!

When I was stationed out in the San Francisco Bay Area, I flew a red eye flight to Boston, then traveled, by car, with my sister and her family, so we could surprise our family with both of us being home at the same time. When it came time to fly back to the Bay Area, a one way ticket was going to run me ~$525. The travel agent said, "Hold on a minute....", then found me a round trip ticket for ~$350.

When I asked him how that was going to work, he said, "Just FORGET to fly back here!" :sneaky:

That was almost 30 years ago.....so it's not like this is something new.

 

[Subyman]

Hidden ticket booking has been a thing for a long time. It is known to be against policy for most major airlines. This guy is brazenly helping people do it in large quantity, so of course the airline's eye will be on him. I wouldn't support his cause.

 

[WackyDan]

I did this a lot back in 2006/2007. Several times I got off at the hub airport and purposely missed the connecting flight. It was a period of time when I was commuting to work between Charlotte, NC and Lexington, KY. Home was in Charlotte, but my company was forcing me to relocate to the great lakes region after a re-org. I would often work my tickets so that flying "home" from detroit to Lexington took me through Charlotte. There was no point flying on to Lexington and then driving 6+ hours home to Charlotte. It gave me the top cover I needed with the company until we re-org'd again and it was fine that I was working out of Charlotte.

US Air never contacted me about it. That maybe because I was still taking other flights and flying those to completion during that time. I'd say if you are a serial offender then you could face retribution from the airline, but I think that it would be pretty rare for them to do that.

 

[Zaap]

The biggest reason this is an issue is that his website is allowing passengers to book tickets that are to be used in direct contradiction to the contract passengers agree to when purchasing the ticket. For example from the UA COC:



Furthermore - reading the suit there is also a complaint that Skiplagged had a contract with United and Orbitz but violated said contract. They were told to stop this practice but continued anyway. I don't have the contract to read to know if thats a valid complaint or not

I do see another potential issue with this. Looking at the site I don't see a lot of information about what can happen to you if plans go awry. The airline is under no obligation to get you to the listed connection airports - only to your final destination. It would be quite easy for mechanical, weather issues or even planned re-routing to strand you in a completely different city\state\country with you being responsible for getting a ticket to your actual planned destination. Skipplagged just gives a very general "your itinerary may change at the airlines discretion" without really going into the full risks of booking a hidden city itinerary. I also hope you aren't forced to gate check your luggage. Sometimes it only becomes available again at your final destination



It may appear illogical to the consumer but there are a variety of reasons it makes logical sense to the airline companies (Ex: competition sales at an airport, trying to grow a hub, airline alliance routings etc). And they already do apply penalties if caught



Stupid or not it is their policy and you do agree to it when you buy the ticket. FF accounts have been closed and FF miles forfeited for this practice. By doing this you risk (expressly stated in the CoCs):
Refusal to board
Closure of Frequent Flier account
Confiscation or Miles
Loss of status
Banned from airline

Of course if you do this infrequently the risks are minimal as people miss connections all the time for valid reasons. However, there are people on Flyertalk who have been warned and had accounts closed so the risk is there and I don't see this noted anywhere on skipplagged website.

FWIW other sites will show the same data and have for years but are not as blatant about it

Thanks for an excellent informative post. Every now and then one actually learns something around here, rather than just the.usual reactionary chatter. Soinds to me like you pretty much put this one to rest.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

When I was looking to fly to Dallas last summer, there were some days where it was cheaper to fly through Dallas to Austin (one-ways each way) than it was to fly directly to Dallas (round-trip).

I don't get airline pricing. I flew from Texas to New Zealand and picked a flight from San Francisco to Auckland instead of Los Angeles to Auckland because it was cheaper on the Air New Zealand side (same price for the Southwest ticket from San Antonio to SF or LA). So of course the Air NZ flight from SF to Auckland starts with a United Flight from SF to LA and then the ANZ flight from LA to Auckland. How the hell was it cheaper for them to book another airline's flight from SF to LA than to just have me fly from LA? I was kind of ticked because I had a long layover and could have done a couple things in LA instead of just sitting in the airport in SF. Though I do have to admit liking the Anchor Bar in SFO.

 

[Exterous]

Thanks for an excellent informative post. Every now and then one actually learns something around here, rather than just the.usual reactionary chatter. Soinds to me like you pretty much put this one to rest.

No problem - glad to shed some light one it

 

[Newell Steamer]

Let us be honest, not everyone can fit the profile of a skiplagger.

You must:
1) travel with only carry on luggage
2) book a one way trip and then book your return trip when you land (which may or may not be skiplagged - AND, there may not even be a return trip available for that time!). Booking a round trip will cause the airline to cancel your entire trip,.. so you SOL on the return, if you book round trip (especially since the return flight is from the city you did not fly to).
3) not book with your airlines frequent flyer account (because if they catch you, they can take away all your points and boot you from said program,.. even ban you from the airline)
4) disappear at the hub (don't answer any calls to your mobile or pages - because an airline rep will try to contact you, if the connecting flight is legitimately cancelled and try to set up a new flight for you)

There is a lot of maneuvering to successfully pull this off. Would it be worth it? I say no, if you are frequent user of airlines, there is just too much that could go wrong with skiplagging.

However, if you need a last minute flight and don't want to pay $500, but can pay $300 to skiplag - do it. There was a flight heading to your desired city anyway (as a layover), so, just because an airline didn't make an extra $200, from flying to the same city, big deal. Skiplagging is detrimental to profits, not cost of operating - screw them - they take advantage of customers in need all the time.

 

[Brainonska511]

Update:
Judge throws out the lawsuit (mainly on jurisdictional grounds)

http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/01/investing/united-airlines-lawsuit-skiplagged/index.html

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Update:
Judge throws out the lawsuit (mainly on jurisdictional grounds)

http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/01/investing/united-airlines-lawsuit-skiplagged/index.html

FUCK YEAH! Fuck you United. GTFO.

Seriously +1 for the little guy. I don't even do this (I travel mainly Delta for business, and Southwest for personal). But either way we can all get behind telling United to GTFO along with Orbitz. I've never seen a cheaper flight via orbitz/travelocity than directly with the airliners, so they are useless.

Only thing I've done is been screwed out of a hotel with those sites.

 

[Blanky]

The fact that skipping a leg of a flight is cheaper is crazy.

They might win this, but they shouldn't. All he's really doing is sharing information with people and they choose not to complete the flight.

EDIT: Oh, I see it was thrown hehe

 

[Svnla]

This skiplag only works for a small number of flyers because of many restrictions/conditions.

I am looking for a cheap seat from US to Asia and it is about $1250 (round trip).