Union cut striker pay - some lose health insurance
- Thread starter CADsortaGUY
- Start date
Right, it's all the union's fault. I would expect no less from you, Cad. Seriously though, unless the point of arbitration is to simply drag this out as long as possible, I really hope the two sides come to an agreement soon. There simply has to be some middle ground that both sides can agree on. Or perhaps Bush can invoke the Taft-Hartley act again like he did with the west coast dock workers, and force everyone back to work. 
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Right, it's all the union's fault. I would expect no less from you, Cad. Seriously though, unless the point of arbitration is to simply drag this out as long as possible, I really hope the two sides come to an agreement soon. There simply has to be some middle ground that both sides can agree on. Or perhaps Bush can invoke the Taft-Hartley act again like he did with the west coast dock workers, and force everyone back to work.
The reason it's the Union's fault is because they are the ones cutting the striker pay.
I didn't say that the Union cuts people's health insurance - that was the fault of the people who didn't(or couldn't afford to because of not working) pony up the one time charge to continue coverage.I guess the Union succeeded in making life better for these people who were so oppressed by the evil corporations
I hope they can come to a compromise soon - keeping people from jobs is not the answer anymore.
CkG
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
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Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Right, it's all the union's fault. I would expect no less from you, Cad. Seriously though, unless the point of arbitration is to simply drag this out as long as possible, I really hope the two sides come to an agreement soon. There simply has to be some middle ground that both sides can agree on. Or perhaps Bush can invoke the Taft-Hartley act again like he did with the west coast dock workers, and force everyone back to work.
The reason it's the Union's fault is because they are the ones cutting the striker pay.
I guess the Union succeeded in making life better for these people who were so oppressed by the evil corporations
I hope they can come to a compromise soon - keeping people from jobs is not the answer anymore.
CkG
All depends on the bargaining position. Longshormen in LongBeach make well above 130K annual because if they strike the whole contries retailers won't get thier goods. Riverboat pilots in LA make ~400K because if they strike billions of dollars of commerce wont get up river. Grocery store workers? Well Lets just say it's not to hard to train and find replacements from 7-11.
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Right, it's all the union's fault. I would expect no less from you, Cad. Seriously though, unless the point of arbitration is to simply drag this out as long as possible, I really hope the two sides come to an agreement soon. There simply has to be some middle ground that both sides can agree on. Or perhaps Bush can invoke the Taft-Hartley act again like he did with the west coast dock workers, and force everyone back to work.
The reason it's the Union's fault is because they are the ones cutting the striker pay.
I guess the Union succeeded in making life better for these people who were so oppressed by the evil corporations
I hope they can come to a compromise soon - keeping people from jobs is not the answer anymore.
CkG
All depends on the bargaining position. Longshormen in LongBeach make well above 130K annual because if they strike the whole contries retailers won't get thier goods. Riverboat pilots in LA make ~400K because if they strike billions of dollars of commerce wont get up river. Grocery store workers? Well Lets just say it's not to hard to train and find replacements from 7-11.
It is too bad that the Grocery Workers weren't bright enough to figure this out.
If you guys lived in SoCal and visited Ralphs (a union supermarket currently not being picketed by union workers), you'd see a HUGE difference. I've been in there, it's NOT pretty.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
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130k??400k?? And some say that unions suck? Well not for those guysOriginally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Right, it's all the union's fault. I would expect no less from you, Cad. Seriously though, unless the point of arbitration is to simply drag this out as long as possible, I really hope the two sides come to an agreement soon. There simply has to be some middle ground that both sides can agree on. Or perhaps Bush can invoke the Taft-Hartley act again like he did with the west coast dock workers, and force everyone back to work.
The reason it's the Union's fault is because they are the ones cutting the striker pay.
I guess the Union succeeded in making life better for these people who were so oppressed by the evil corporations
I hope they can come to a compromise soon - keeping people from jobs is not the answer anymore.
CkG
All depends on the bargaining position. Longshormen in LongBeach make well above 130K annual because if they strike the whole contries retailers won't get thier goods. Riverboat pilots in LA make ~400K because if they strike billions of dollars of commerce wont get up river. Grocery store workers? Well Lets just say it's not to hard to train and find replacements from 7-11.
The companies dont have to pay jack to striking employees. If this drags on much longer, the striking workers will get premenantly replaced.
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
- 0
Thank you... I respect the workers rights but think this strike was very ill advised.. These stores have to remain competitive and unions are not helping them do that in any way shape or form.. without the stores the the union workers have no job.. without the union workers the stores make higher profits
yeah, they should fire all the strikers and replace them with minimum wage workers with no health coverage, i'm sure they'd be able to find plenty of workers for this. it would save the companies a bundle and we'd also save a little too as customers. heh heh heh, who do these strikers think they are?
people against unions say that these people are getting paid too much or too many benefits (and to what effect? slightly higher prices?), they're also the ones complaining when american companies close u.s. factories and setup in other countries for the benefit of the consumer by saying that they're taking away american jobs. well if the supermarkets get what they want, that is also what is going to happen to a degree, all these people will be replaced eventually by people making minimum wage and no benefits.
it's already happened in so many industries, can you imagine what would happen if there suddenly no teamsters union? they'd be instantly replaced with either immigrants satisfied with lower pay, or americans working for substandard wages. sure, a lot of unions are bad and go overboard a lot of the time, but i'd rather see a union watching out for worker's rights than a corporation.
people against unions say that these people are getting paid too much or too many benefits (and to what effect? slightly higher prices?), they're also the ones complaining when american companies close u.s. factories and setup in other countries for the benefit of the consumer by saying that they're taking away american jobs. well if the supermarkets get what they want, that is also what is going to happen to a degree, all these people will be replaced eventually by people making minimum wage and no benefits.
it's already happened in so many industries, can you imagine what would happen if there suddenly no teamsters union? they'd be instantly replaced with either immigrants satisfied with lower pay, or americans working for substandard wages. sure, a lot of unions are bad and go overboard a lot of the time, but i'd rather see a union watching out for worker's rights than a corporation.
Or maybe they should just realize the copays and small montly premiums are still a pretty good deal.
i agree with you there, i dont see why they're fighting those small premiums (even though the companies are proposing to cut their coverage in half as well as their retirement benefits), i guess they're just fighting for the loss of coverage there.
my main issue is with the company's proposals to start hiring new people a significant wage drop and significantly less benefits. they wont be happy until they ARE like walmart and offering new hires $6 an hour with no benefits. i just feel like we as americans need to do something to stop this because it's starting to happen everywhere in every industry, including the tech industry now. i feel like im overpaid for my job, i know that my company could easily hire someone in india or the phillipines $3 an hour to do it, but there's some point where you just need to stop the bleeding. i can see a time when the only jobs left available will be near-minimum wage jobs or highly specialized jobs that require 10 years of schooling, and people will be competing so much for those jobs that the salaries wont be nearly satisfactory.
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
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You are absolutely correct and (not bashing bush as convenience) but this is where Bush's illegal immigration proposal for 8 million people is disgustingly wrong
Someone should have told the grocers union in CA to rethink what they were doing.. unions ONLY inconvenience corporations.. If corps could do away with unions then I believe they would love to do that... CA gave the corps a chance to make unions look incredibly greedy and spiteful.
They already have. Do you think the stores are closed right now? Heck no. I shop at VONS all the time and the first day the striker's were out, new people were in. They are being paid well above minimum wage and none of them get health benefits. I see none of them complaining nor does there ever seem to be a shortage of employees. I think the service has improved since the strike, because now there are more people checking groceries than before. Interestingly enough, if you ask the new employees why they are there, they all say because it's an easy job and it pays alot more than they could be making anywhere else.
You say this because you've never run a business, but let me briefly explain:
You have a business and you sell wigets for $10 each. Your employees are unionized, get full medical and retirement benefits.
A new company moves in within eyesight of yours and they sell the same exact wigets for $5 each. Their employees aren't unionized, pay their own medical and dont' get retirement.
Fortunately your store is nicer than theirs, which will keep the more affluent people shopping there, but a large majority of the people will switch due to price alone. Not to mention that the new store also sells hundreds of other items that people buy, which causes the to go there. Now they will just pick up their widgets when they are there for less.
You will most likely go out of business if you continue selling widgets for $10 each. The reason you can't sell them for less is because your highest fixed product cost, labor, can't be decreased, due to the union, to maintain competitiveness. So, your employees are telling you that you'll have to find a way to compete without cutting your wages. You can't compete, you're out. Nice feeling to know your employees are so greedy that they really don't care if you suffer.
Anyways, so you are left with no choice to break the union. It's really not something you want to do, don't get me wrong. You're very happy paying the wages and charging more. Everybody is happy with that, but if you don't get your costs down you won't have any income. No income means you are out of business, plain and simple.
So you try to compromise with the union. Pay new people less and ask current employees to pay part of their health insurance premiums. Is that really so bad? Would you rather be out of business permanently or try to save the company (AND THE JOBS YOU CREATE) that you worked so hard to build all those years?
Unions are greedy, where have you been?
These workers have been paying their dues for years and now they are going getting $200 a week, oh my bad, now $140 a week back for striking when the union told them to.
What happened to all the dues money they paid??? Was it given to high salaried union execs?? Was it given to politicians to fund campaigns??? What happened to all the union money? Greed. And look what the union is doing for the workers now. NOTHING. hah...make the unions look greedy... pfft!! hahaha
Uh, DealMonkey, I DO live in So Cal and I ONLY shop at grocery stores with strikers out front (which is getting harder to do, I'm happy to say, heh) and I'll tell you that yes, there IS a diminished level of goods, particularly in the meat department, but the service in most cases is as good as or better than it ever was.
Face it: The dock strikers and the bus mechanics had something to bargain with, particular sets of skills that are hard to replace. A grocery clerk is little more than a trained monkey, and as we've seen, is EASILY replaced.
Jason
Face it: The dock strikers and the bus mechanics had something to bargain with, particular sets of skills that are hard to replace. A grocery clerk is little more than a trained monkey, and as we've seen, is EASILY replaced.
Jason
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
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Originally posted by: dirtboy
Unions are greedy, where have you been?
These workers have been paying their dues for years and now they are going getting $200 a week, oh my bad, now $140 a week back for striking when the union told them to.
What happened to all the dues money they paid??? Was it given to high salaried union execs?? Was it given to politicians to fund campaigns??? What happened to all the union money? Greed. And look what the union is doing for the workers now. NOTHING. hah...make the unions look greedy... pfft!! hahaha
That is exaclty what I was saying though maybe not as clear as I could have ....
They gave them the chance and they took them up on it
The unions showed how spiteful they really are and it bit them in the ass.No one strikes to put their employer out of business. Good grief. Striking is a last resort and takes nearly unimaginable courage in many cases. Especially in such a poor economy.
With these kind of attitudes against collective bargaining......you soon realize why so many people are paid the least possible wage rather than the fairest wage.
I've always said let the people vote and decide after faithful bargaining.
The vaunted American middle class owes it existance to that. And it is weakening slowly because of people with attitudes like many of those that post here.
With these kind of attitudes against collective bargaining......you soon realize why so many people are paid the least possible wage rather than the fairest wage.
I've always said let the people vote and decide after faithful bargaining.
The vaunted American middle class owes it existance to that. And it is weakening slowly because of people with attitudes like many of those that post here.
How many strikes have ended with companies going out of business? Probably more than you wish to count.
Low skill workers *aren't* the middle class. The middle class are those who have skilled jobs and make a halfway decent wage. The grocery workers are people who tried to break into the middle class without putting in the work required, instead relying on a Union to force their employer to pay them far more than their skills are worth.
Honestly, if the grocery store workers don't like the fact that they are low skilled, they need to TAKE ACTION and get themselves some damn skills. Why is that such an incredibly hard concept for some people who post here to grasp? You're FREE to achieve as much as you are willing to work for, so WORK FOR IT!
Jason
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