Uninterruptible Power Supply inquiry

[Beto Garcia]

Greetings folks,


I’m currently searching the hardware market for my next Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) for my 2013 new Performance PC built. During my research I’ve identified 2 possible candidates and I need your expert advice in order to make an informed decision.

The candidates are:

1. APC BR1500G BACK-UPS Pro 1500 10-Outlet 1500VA/865W UPS;
2. APC SMC1500 Smart-UPS 1440 VA/900 Watts UPS.

There’s a third model but it’s not available for purchase in my region:

3. CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD 1500VA / 900W PFC UPS.

All of them have received positive online sites & customer reviews.

The Power Supply Unit (PSU) I chose and bought is:

· CORSAIR Professional Series AX1200i 1200 Watt 80 PLUS Platinum Certified Digital ATX Active PFC PSU [CP-9020008-NA].

The requirements for the UPS are:

a. Completely compatible with the chosen Power Supply Unit;
b. Enough run time to safely shut down the PC (approximately 3 to 5 minutes);
c. Topology: Line Interactive;
d. Waveform Type: Sine wave;
e. Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR);
f. Surge Protection;
g. Max Budget: approximately $400 USD.

Here are some PC components of the built for reference:

· CPU: Intel Core i7 3930K. TDP: 130 W;
· X79 Desktop Board: ASUS Sabertooth X79;
· X79 Desktop Memory: G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB [F3-17000CL9Q-16GBZH];
· GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 FTW Edition [02G-P4-2678-KR]. TDP: 170w;
· SSD: Intel SSD 520 Series 240GB [SSDSC2CW240A3K5];
· HDD: Western Digital VelociRaptor 1TB [WD1000DHTZ];
· Monitor: Acer HN274Hbmiiid 27" 1080p Full HD LED 120Hz 3D [HN274H BMIIID]. TDP: 45.5W.

I’ve calculated, according to an online PSU calculator, a starting continuously available power of approximately 750 Watts (800 Watts with an overclocked CPU). Know that I’ll be adding more hardware in the future.

Therefore, what I need to know is:

• Which of the listed UPS is the best one for protecting my new Performance PC built?

Your advice, suggestions and comments will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


Regards,

 

[mfenn]

Ouch, I wish you had posted here before building that PC. You have some serious money wasted there.

There is no way that your PC will draw anywhere close to 750W. Your CPU draws a max of 130W and your GPU 170W. Add in 50W for the rest of the system and you're looking at 350W total when running flat out. Even overclocking isn't going to double that.

Of the two UPS's you have available, the SMC1500 is better because it has a better power factor (63% vs. 58%) and a closer approximation to a sine wave output.

 

[Blain]

I have Cyberpower CP1500AVRLCD and CP1350AVRLCD units.
They have served me well for a couple of years now.
Both have more capacity than I need for what they are supplying, but I'm a firm believer in excess when it comes to battery power.

 

[Steltek]

I have Cyberpower CP1500AVRLCD and CP1350AVRLCD units.
They have served me well for a couple of years now.
Both have more capacity than I need for what they are supplying, but I'm a firm believer in excess when it comes to battery power.

I also have the Cyberpower 1500AVR myself and agree.

I always liked the APC units I used in the past - they have very high quality batteries that last a long time, usually beyond the rated life. The only area I didn't like related to APC is that APC always seems to skimp on surge protection in their UPS units. The APC BR1500G and SMC1500 listed by OP only provide 354 joules and 455 joules of surge protection, respectively. The Cyberpower 1500AVR has 1500 joules of surge protection (which was why I chose it in this instance).

 

[Goros]

I have a silverstone OP-1000e PSU in my Ivy Bridge gaming rig and I run overclocked FSB, RAM, Processor and 2 580GTX Lightning Xtremes in SLI with the 580 power limiter disabled.

I used to run an APC Back-UPS XS 1500LCD rated at 865w/1500va. I had it on my prior build (a 790i ultra sli with 3-9800GTX+ black editions) and my850 watt psu was fine and so was the APC unit.

When I hooked this one up, not only would the XS-1500 not supply any backup power to the computer (power would go out, the computer would just turn off and all the other gear hooked to it would keep running - monitors, networking equipment etc - and yes, it was plugged into the correct outlet on the unit) but when my GPU's were under load it would SCREAM at me warning me that it was over 100% of load. I even replaced the battery at 2 years instead of 3 thinking it just might be too old. Nope. Just couldn't handle the new system.

I had to replace it with a Smart-UPS 2200va LCD which works flawlessly (AS IT SHOULD FOR $1k!!)

 

[Beto Garcia]

Thanks for your replies and advice.

Ouch, I wish you had posted here before building that PC. You have some serious money wasted there.

Well, I haven’t bought everything yet. I have specific purposes and many ideas for that Performance build that we’ll have the opportunity to share and discuss in a near future thread. For the time being, my efforts are focused on selecting the UPS to protect my Hardware.

There is no way that your PC will draw anywhere close to 750W. Your CPU draws a max of 130W and your GPU 170W. Add in 50W for the rest of the system and you're looking at 350W total when running flat out. Even overclocking isn't going to double that.

I do plan on adding more hardware in the near future, like another GTX 670 for SLI fun, HDDs, etc., and upgrading components down the road. A 900 Watts / 1500VA UPS seems adequate since I would like to stay under 800 Watts for higher Energy Use/Efficiency. When I researched Power Supplies I learned about PSUs reaching their max efficiency @ 50% load (92% efficiency @ 600 Watt for the CORSAIR AX1200i), saving you money on the long run, which it's positive.

I’ve read about the Sine wave topic and the modern PSUs being Active PFC, it seems more important than ever for UPSs to include that spec in their design.

I have Cyberpower CP1500AVRLCD and CP1350AVRLCD units. They have served me well for a couple of years now.

I do own a Cyberpower CP1500AVRLCD and has served me for almost 5 years now. Great quality product!

The only area I didn't like related to APC is that APC always seems to skimp on surge protection in their UPS units. The APC BR1500G and SMC1500 listed by OP only provide 354 joules and 455 joules of surge protection, respectively. The Cyberpower 1500AVR has 1500 joules of surge protection (which was why I chose it in this instance).

Agreed; but now, how much surge protection would one really need?

When I hooked this one up, not only would the XS-1500 not supply any backup power to the computer (power would go out, the computer would just turn off and all the other gear hooked to it would keep running - monitors, networking equipment etc - and yes, it was plugged into the correct outlet on the unit) but when my GPU's were under load it would SCREAM at me warning me that it was over 100% of load. I even replaced the battery at 2 years instead of 3 thinking it just might be too old. Nope. Just couldn't handle the new system.

How much power was your system draining?

Any thoughts, comments and suggestions are welcome.

 

[mfenn]

When I researched Power Supplies I learned about PSUs reaching their max efficiency @ 50% load (92% efficiency @ 600 Watt for the CORSAIR AX1200i), saving you money on the long run, which it's positive.

There's a pretty fundamental flaw in your logic here. First off, let's assume that your PC can draw 600W fully-loaded after the upgrades that you make. This is probably not true, but let's assume it for the sake of argument.

The flaw you're assuming that your PC will run at full CPU and GPU load all the time. This is simply not the case. In reality, you will be drawing something like ~60-80W most of the time. That's less than 10% of your PSU's rated output, it's nearly 5%! PSU efficiency steeply drops off under 10% so your 1200W unit will draw more power than the equivalent 750W under normal circumstances.

 

[Beto Garcia]

I appreciate all of your knowledgeable comments.

Well, I understand my hardware won’t be running at 100% capacity 24/7, only when it’s required.

Like I said, during my PSU research I considered specs like Peak and sustained load, efficiency, capacitors aging, PFC, modular and Noise levels (Yes, my family greatly appreciated a silent PC, especially during those late-night work or gaming sessions). In brief, I chose and bought the CORSAIR Professional Series AX1200i due to its high built quality, reliability, higher efficiency, low noise (its operation is fanless until it reaches 30% load) and room to spare for adding new hardware, future upgrades and overclocking. If it proves its worth, I could even use this same PSU for another build. I would rather go cheap on a PC chassis or Mouse than on mission critical hardware like the PSU and the UPS.

The Power Supply unit topic is very important, but I think we have gone a bit off topic here.

Regarding surge protection, how much would one really need?

Any thoughts, comments and suggestions are welcome.

 

[Goros]

How much power was your system draining?

Any thoughts, comments and suggestions are welcome.

I have 10 - 180mm fans and 2 - 120mm fans as well as 4 ssd's, 2 7200rpm HDD's and a 10k rpm HDD, 3 monitors, keyboard, mouse, cable modem, n900 router, and switch. Inside the case my p8z77 ws is overclocked (BLCK 107), the CPU (3770) is at 4.38GHz, the RAM is at 2000MHz, and my 580GTX Lightning Xtreme (3GB DDR5) are both overclocked to 940/1880/2400.

I removed the power limiter on the 580's and under load my system draws ~950-1100w according to the LCD screen on my UPS. Assuming that it's within 10% accuracy...my cards draw....lots.

 

[mfenn]

I appreciate all of your knowledgeable comments.

Well, I understand my hardware won’t be running at 100% capacity 24/7, only when it’s required.

Like I said, during my PSU research I considered specs like Peak and sustained load, efficiency, capacitors aging, PFC, modular and Noise levels (Yes, my family greatly appreciated a silent PC, especially during those late-night work or gaming sessions). In brief, I chose and bought the CORSAIR Professional Series AX1200i due to its high built quality, reliability, higher efficiency, low noise (its operation is fanless until it reaches 30% load) and room to spare for adding new hardware, future upgrades and overclocking. If it proves its worth, I could even use this same PSU for another build. I would rather go cheap on a PC chassis or Mouse than on mission critical hardware like the PSU and the UPS.

The Power Supply unit topic is very important, but I think we have gone a bit off topic here.

The AX1200i is certainly a very good power supply, no argument there. The point is that you don't need to spend anywhere near $330 USD (or equivalent) to get a PSU with the bolded attributes. A $140 Seasonic X750 will meet all those needs for 60% less (and even that's overkill).

Regarding surge protection, how much would one really need?

Depends on what your goal is. Do you live in an area subject to frequent brownouts? If so, your power is probably very dirty even under "normal" conditions and you're getting small surges all the time. That means you should get as much surge suppression as you can.

If you're looking to protect against infrequent, catastrophic events like a nearby lightning strike, then don't worry about surge protection at the UPS at all. Any strike close enough to do damage would take out your surge protection as well.

 

[Sleepingforest]

The X750 is actually higher quality than the AX1200i. [H]ardOCP tells us that they use hot glue and electrical tape to secure the fan, which is a mere Yate Loon (very budget status). The X750, on the other hand, has a securely attached Sanyo Denki fan, which is pretty much the best computer fan manufacturer in the world. The X750 is also nearly 80 Plus Gold efficient even at very low loads (under 100W) where 80 Plus doesn't normally measure, which makes it an excellent choice all around.

 

[Beto Garcia]

Thank you for your comments.

Depends on what your goal is. Do you live in an area subject to frequent brownouts? If so, your power is probably very dirty even under "normal" conditions and you're getting small surges all the time. That means you should get as much surge suppression as you can.

I’ve noticed the area I live in has brownouts now and then but certainly not anything catastrophic. My goal is to protect against those overvoltage and undervoltage conditions whilst having enough run time (3 to 5 minutes) to finish any activity and gracefully shutdown my system. If I’m not present at the time of the occurrence, it’s very handy that the UPS issues a system shutdown or sleep.

Taking all of the above useful information you and others have kindly provided and the unit cost into consideration, would you still recommend the APC SMC1500 Smart-UPS as the best UPS to protect my build?

 

[mfenn]

Taking all of the above useful information you and others have kindly provided and the unit cost into consideration, would you still recommend the APC SMC1500 Smart-UPS as the best UPS to protect my build?

Maybe I am missing something, but I don't see anywhere where you've listed out the prices. I can't make a recommendation based on cost without that info.

 

[Beto Garcia]

Maybe I am missing something, but I don't see anywhere where you've listed out the prices. I can't make a recommendation based on cost without that info.

You’re right! Here are the prices found @ N3w3*g (March 11th, 2013):

1. APC BR1500G BACK-UPS Pro 1500-> $189.99 USD;
2. APC SMC1500 Smart-UPS -> $339.99 USD;

3. CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD-> $194.99 USD.

NOTE: Remember, Max Budget: approximately $400 USD.

 

[mfenn]

You’re right! Here are the prices found @ N3w3*g (March 11th, 2013):

1. APC BR1500G BACK-UPS Pro 1500-> $189.99 USD;
2. APC SMC1500 Smart-UPS -> $339.99 USD;

3. CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD-> $194.99 USD.

NOTE: Remember, Max Budget: approximately $400 USD.

You can say Newegg here, it's not a dirty word. I thought you were in Honduras though?

 

[Sleepingforest]

I believe Newegg will ship to the Caribbean islands (but charge a lot of shipping fees), so I don't see why South America would be that different.

 

[Beto Garcia]

Yeah I know, I just like to write like that. Example: KittyDirect.

I believe Newegg will ship to the Caribbean islands (but charge a lot of shipping fees), so I don't see why South America would be that different.

Anyway, I listed N3w3*g Pricing just as reference, since in my country (Honduras) the aforementioned APC UPSs are available for purchase at a local retail store at a similar price (without any shipping costs).

Therefore, as I previously mentioned, taking all of the above useful information you and others have kindly provided and the unit cost into consideration, all I need to know is which of the listed UPS would you folks recommend as the best UPS to protect my build?

P.S. I wouldn’t know nor care about shipping to Caribbean Islands or South America since I don’t live in those regions.

 

[Torn Mind]

I believe Newegg will ship to the Caribbean islands (but charge a lot of shipping fees), so I don't see why South America would be that different.

lol, he's in Central America. South of Mexico but north of the South American continent on the isthmus of southern North America.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Yeah, didn't think for a second there. I meant, esentially, that Newegg seems to do international shipping to a degree, and I don't see why any particular part of any America (North, South, Central) would be different.

I appear to be a geography failure though. Excuse me for a moment while I wallow in shame.

 

[mfenn]

Yeah I know, I just like to write like that. Example: KittyDirect.



Anyway, I listed N3w3*g Pricing just as reference, since in my country (Honduras) the aforementioned APC UPSs are available for purchase at a local retail store at a similar price (without any shipping costs).

Therefore, as I previously mentioned, taking all of the above useful information you and others have kindly provided and the unit cost into consideration, all I need to know is which of the listed UPS would you folks recommend as the best UPS to protect my build?

P.S. I wouldn’t know nor care about shipping to Caribbean Islands or South America since I don’t live in those regions.

OK, so it depends on how you want to look at it. If you want to get the best UPS for under $400 out of those three, get the SMC1500. It is better electronically and has a bigger battery than the other two. If you want to get the best value UPS out of those three, get the CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD. It has the attractive power characteristics of the SMC1500, but does not have the battery.

 

[Beto Garcia]

Hello folks!


Alright then, lets wrap up this topic by briefing some of the provided information:

* Simulated vs. pure sine wave: The Corsair AX1200 is a very good power supply and it would not care about what kind of AC would receive.
* UPS with AVR will help shape (regulate) the sine wave into something more easily used by the devices plugged into it. They help with undervoltage and overvoltage events.
* The best protection from power anomalies comes when the UPS or protector is plugged into a properly wired and grounded wall outlet.
* So, you can buy a good UPS with a quick cut-over that provides a "stepped approximation to a sinewave" for your computer system with no worries.

I’ve decided to purchase the better UPS considering all of your valuable comments and advices.

Thank you all for your participation and kind help on this topic. :thumbsup:


Best regards,