uninsured motorists

[angminas]

If you don't have uninsured motorist coverage in your insurance, get it. Saved me $4k once, and it's cheap.

 

[rh71]

Forget about getting the vehicle inspected - the DMV is contacted via computer as you're getting your car inspected. Forget about getting a new registration. (Oh, and that expired inspection tag & registration tag are going to stand out like a sore thumb once the color changes in January. At that point, you will get pulled over and charged with
*driving without insurance
*driving without registration
*driving without a license (The DMV will suspend your license about 30 days after the insurance lapses)

A DWI would be cheaper.

now can someone tell me why states like CA (where illegals run rampant) don't have annual inspections? I think they just have emissions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States

Not only does it make the roads safer for everyone else, it may catch these people without licenses/insurance. It's not like illegals vote - why won't the politicians put it in place?

 

[BoomerD]

now can someone tell me why states like CA (where illegals run rampant) don't have annual inspections? I think they just have emissions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States

Not only does it make the roads safer for everyone else, it may catch these people without licenses/insurance. It's not like illegals vote - why won't the politicians put it in place?

Politicians won't put it in place because the people don't want it. It adds to the cost of owning a vehicle...and unfortunately, for lots of people, an annual vehicle inspection is too costly...especially when they find something wrong that has to be fixed before you can get your sticker. (I only lived in one state that had mandatory vehicle inspections...and they ALWAYS found something wrong that HAD to be fixed before they'd issue the sticker.)

While I personally think annual safety inspections is a good thing on principle, the reality of it is that it's just one more bit of bureaucracy that has to be paid for...and one more avenue for scams...much like the old smog check system was. The new "Smog Check II" still isn't "fraud-proof," but it's better than the old system.


Doc, we also have the annual stickers that are much different color than the previous year...yet every time I go out, I see vehicles with last year's sticker, the year before, even 2-3 years before...

Hell, if Kahleeforneeya wants to make some money...I have a great idea...If you see someone driving with expired plates, (should be more than 60 days out of date) call an 800 number and report them. The state charges outrageous "late fees" for vehicle licensing, so when they catch the person and finally collect the license fees and late fees, the first person to call and report the scofflaw gets a percentage of the late fees. 10%, 20%, even 25% would be a good incentive for neighbor to turn in neighbor...and the state would benefit from increased license fees and more licensed & insured vehicles...

 

[shortylickens]

now can someone tell me why states like CA (where illegals run rampant) don't have annual inspections? I think they just have emissions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States

Not only does it make the roads safer for everyone else, it may catch these people without licenses/insurance. It's not like illegals vote - why won't the politicians put it in place?

Illegals run rampant in Virginia too.
And we have annual safety inspections AND you actually have to put a sticker in your windshield showing you got the safety inspection.
Its still a problem. Proving once again that an overbearing big brother cant actually solve societies problems.

 

[SunnyD]

You'll successfully drive for less than a year without insurance.

NY: the plates do NOT stay with the vehicle. If the vehicle is sold, the plates are removed. You can NOT register a vehicle without proof of insurance. They check.

The minute your insurance lapses, NY is automatically notified by the insurance company that it lapsed. You're now screwed by a fine. If I understand the signs correctly at the DMV, you get one do-over. i.e. pay the fine & things are good. The 2nd time your insurance lapses, it doesn't matter if you've renewed your insurance or not. You have to turn in the plates & cannot re-register a vehicle for the same number of days that you were driving without insurance.

Forget about getting the vehicle inspected - the DMV is contacted via computer as you're getting your car inspected. Forget about getting a new registration. (Oh, and that expired inspection tag & registration tag are going to stand out like a sore thumb once the color changes in January. At that point, you will get pulled over and charged with
*driving without insurance
*driving without registration
*driving without a license (The DMV will suspend your license about 30 days after the insurance lapses)

A DWI would be cheaper.

This is absolutely not true. Go ahead... ask me how I know. I dare you. (if you can read between the lines then you'll not need to ask)

Yes, if you let your insurance laps, in about 3 or 4 months your license will get suspended (fully dependent on how soon the insurance company notifies the DMV, but most are about 3 months after an unpaid bill). BUT, you'll still have plates on your car regardless, and unless you get pulled over no one is the wiser.

And yes, the car can get inspected and the DMV will never know whether or not it is registered or not. There's nothing stopping you from going to get an inspection on a car without it being registered - for example, dealer plates or a buyer/seller getting an inspection on a car they are swapping.

Again, ask me how I know? Yeah, that's right, because I've done it. Sure, you drive around with a suspended license, but the people that let their insurance lapse generally don't give a shit anyway.

 

[rh71]

(I only lived in one state that had mandatory vehicle inspections...and they ALWAYS found something wrong that HAD to be fixed before they'd issue the sticker.)

Yet my now-15 year old Isuzu has NEVER had an issue and it still passes emissions, knock on wood. I question this "ALWAYS" unless you own a notoriously unreliable car. I bring this issue up also because of the pimp-my-ride type jalopies some people drive around... dangling mirrors and bumpers... how would you like to drive behind one of those at 70mph? You don't see those here. $35/year is very fair.

Again, ask me how I know? Yeah, that's right, because I've done it. Sure, you drive around with a suspended license, but the people that let their insurance lapse generally don't give a shit anyway.

Why can't the vehicle be impounded for breaking the insurance law? No license.. same thing... instead of charging a penalty, take the car which they need the most and can't easily replace. Maybe we're talking about cost to tow companies and the state then? Still, that's 1 less person the rest of us are paying for when they hit someone.

 

[alkemyst]

They say over 1 in 3 down here have no insurance as well as no provable income.

 

[acheron]

The VA inspection is $15 a year. (If you live in certain counties there's a separate emissions inspection every 2 years in addition.) If you can't afford $15, go work at McDonald's for 3 hours. If you keep needing repairs, take better care of your car and/or don't buy a Kia.

 

[rh71]

What about a different angle... why can't insurance companies go after other assets of the uninsured motorist who hits someone? Ultimate goal would be - buying insurance is cheaper for them in the long run. If this didn't affect others (who have to claim their own insurance and affect rates further), it wouldn't bother me so much.

 

[SunnyD]

Why can't the vehicle be impounded for breaking the insurance law? No license.. same thing... instead of charging a penalty, take the car which they need the most and can't easily replace. Maybe we're talking about cost to tow companies and the state then? Still, that's 1 less person the rest of us are paying for when they hit someone.

I'm not saying it's a good thing to do. But imho if people weren't so fucking sue-happy then affordable insurance for people wouldn't be an issue.

There's a lot of folks out there without any other way to live. You may argue they don't need a car at that point, but without reliable public transportation across much of the US, and the sparseness of vast swaths of the US (for example, upstate NY isn't exactly "urban"), some people have little choice in the matter.

What about a different angle... why can't insurance companies go after other assets of the uninsured motorist who hits someone? Ultimate goal would be - buying insurance is cheaper for them in the long run. If this didn't affect others (who have to claim their own insurance and affect rates further), it wouldn't bother me so much.

They can, and they do. Insurance isn't a catch all, even if you get maximum liability. Nothing stops idiots for suing for ridiculous amounts, and anything that exceeds the policy ends up going directly to the person's assets. As I said, if people weren't so fucking litigation-happy then all would be a non-issue.

 

[alkemyst]

What about a different angle... why can't insurance companies go after other assets of the uninsured motorist who hits someone? Ultimate goal would be - buying insurance is cheaper for them in the long run. If this didn't affect others (who have to claim their own insurance and affect rates further), it wouldn't bother me so much.

Seriously what assets do most private people have that even carry insurance.

 

[Meghan54]

Seriously what assets do most private people have that even carry insurance.

Equity in a house and/or land, salary, and every other damned thing one owns or has saved.

 

[SunnyD]

Seriously what assets do most private people have that even carry insurance.

I think you meant to say, "What assets to most people that DON'T bother to carry insurance even have." Correct?

 

[alkemyst]

I think you meant to say, "What assets to most people that DON'T bother to carry insurance even have." Correct?

No, I stated what I meant.

I think most of you are thinking the average American has really any net worth. Most have little to no equity as it's common to suck it all out as it develops and for the most part in the US your home is safe from almost all garnishments.

Outside of that they usually own a couple cars that are old and paid off, or new and upside down.

Savings is a joke for most. Many are lucky to have $10,000 or so and definitely not liquid.

Most uninsured motorists are much worse off, but have the benefit of usually claiming they don't work since they have no verifiable income.

Most of the US lives paycheck to paycheck with missing any one of them a financial disaster they usually never recover from.

 

[alkemyst]

Equity in a house and/or land, salary, and every other damned thing one owns or has saved.

You don't have a clear view of really why people are required to have insurance then.

Many that have the resources just put up bonds. They are effectively insuraning themselves.

 

[SunnyD]

No, I stated what I meant.

I think most of you are thinking the average American has really any net worth. Most have little to no equity as it's common to suck it all out as it develops and for the most part in the US your home is safe from almost all garnishments.

Outside of that they usually own a couple cars that are old and paid off, or new and upside down.

Savings is a joke for most. Many are lucky to have $10,000 or so and definitely not liquid.

Most uninsured motorists are much worse off, but have the benefit of usually claiming they don't work since they have no verifiable income.

Most of the US lives paycheck to paycheck with missing any one of them a financial disaster they usually never recover from.

Orrr... even if they have no assets, a lawsuit ruins them for years to come should they find themselves without adequate coverage. Any potential assets they have in the future? Yeah, no. Gone before they even see them. That raise they get or better salary from changing jobs? Attached to garnishment. Kids' college fund? Don't bother. You want to sell that house that is protected from garnishment so you can move and get that better job? Guess what, you can't otherwise that asset becomes liquid and attached once it hits your bank account.

This is the biggest "scare" which actually sells liability insurance. As I said, it wouldn't even be an issue if people didn't try to litigate at the drop of a hat. Accidents happen. That's why they're called "accidents". Unfortunately people these days think they're more a blank check then a nuisance. That's why there's a huge multi-billion dollar industry called "insurance" (follow closely by "lawyers" and slightly more distant "medical professionals").

 

[bruceb]

Some police agencys are now being equipped with plate reader systems.
They are small, roof mounted cameras and computer, which scans license plates as the police car is moving. If it finds say, a car reported stolen, a hit comes up to alert the officer. I can see this system eventually being used to check for expired tags, no inspection or no insurance.

 

[rh71]

Most of the US lives paycheck to paycheck with missing any one of them a financial disaster they usually never recover from.

source? Or is this the same as saying most moms drive minivans?

 

[alkemyst]

Orrr... even if they have no assets, a lawsuit ruins them for years to come should they find themselves without adequate coverage. Any potential assets they have in the future? Yeah, no. Gone before they even see them. That raise they get or better salary from changing jobs? Attached to garnishment. Kids' college fund? Don't bother. You want to sell that house that is protected from garnishment so you can move and get that better job? Guess what, you can't otherwise that asset becomes liquid and attached once it hits your bank account.

This is the biggest "scare" which actually sells liability insurance. As I said, it wouldn't even be an issue if people didn't try to litigate at the drop of a hat. Accidents happen. That's why they're called "accidents". Unfortunately people these days think they're more a blank check then a nuisance. That's why there's a huge multi-billion dollar industry called "insurance" (follow closely by "lawyers" and slightly more distant "medical professionals").

That's the thing though, no one without insurance is going to have future earnings. They more than likely will always be working under the table.

College funds lolz. Most uninsured accidents aren't hitting upper middle class and above folks.


Most will have adequate coverage that do. It's relatively cheap to go full boat on it once you are past the 25/50 marks.

 

[SunnyD]

That's the thing though, no one without insurance is going to have future earnings. They more than likely will always be working under the table.

College funds lolz. Most uninsured accidents aren't hitting upper middle class and above folks.

Most will have adequate coverage that do. It's relatively cheap to go full boat on it once you are past the 25/50 marks.

See, you can't say that. As stated, I know how NY law works from experience. I was in a position several years ago where I fell into the category of "minimum-wage earner" and frankly, given car insurance or feeding my kids, I chose the latter. I still needed to get back and forth to work.

3 years later, I got back on my feet in a decent job. 8 years later I'm buying a house. If I were to have gotten into an accident and sued, I'd not be where I am today. So while I did fall into your stereotype category, my point is it could have easily affected me today, where I DON'T fall into that category anymore.

These days, 25/50 doesn't protect you worth crap when it comes to liability anyway.

 

[alkemyst]

source? Or is this the same as saying most moms drive minivans?

You are disputing most of america lives paycheck to paycheck? You serious?

The average net worth last I checked of someone making around $50k had a median net worth of around $35k. Last I checked the median household income now is right around $55k.

These are medians...averages much worse.

Net worth is selling everything and ending up with cash in hand.

If you were making under $30k, the net worth level really deteriorates to 4 figures as that's not enough income to promote any savings and usually life is lived in a constant deficit.

But of course this is ATOT and no one makes less than $250k a year and has a few 'mill' in the bank.

 

[Sinsear]

The minute your insurance lapses, NY is automatically notified by the insurance company that it lapsed. You're now screwed by a fine. If I understand the signs correctly at the DMV, you get one do-over. i.e. pay the fine & things are good. The 2nd time your insurance lapses, it doesn't matter if you've renewed your insurance or not. You have to turn in the plates & cannot re-register a vehicle for the same number of days that you were driving without insurance.

Forget about getting the vehicle inspected - the DMV is contacted via computer as you're getting your car inspected. Forget about getting a new registration. (Oh, and that expired inspection tag & registration tag are going to stand out like a sore thumb once the color changes in January. At that point, you will get pulled over and charged with
*driving without insurance
*driving without registration
*driving without a license (The DMV will suspend your license about 30 days after the insurance lapses)

A DWI would be cheaper.

Actually your registration gets suspended in NY for an insurance lapse. And if you get pulled over and found to be operating a vehicle with a suspended registration you get a summons for NYS VTL 512 (operating with suspended registration) and that is a vehicle and traffic law misdemeanor (just like a dwi). And your plates will be confiscated as well.

And you are correct about the suspended license after 30 days. Driving with a suspended license is also a misdemeanor (NYS VTL 511.1).

A common misconception on the street:

Officer: your registration is suspended for an insurance lapse
Driver: but I have insurance, my card is right here
Officer: yes, I see you have insurance on the vehicle now. However, you lapsed on x/x/xx date, and the DMV suspended your registration.
Driver: that's impossible, I have insurance.
Officer: yes, you do. but did you pay the DMV fine for the insurance lapse back when it lapsed on x/x/x date? (in NY there is a DMV charge of approx $8 per day for insurance lapses)
Driver: whaaaat?
Officer: Well you're registration stays suspended until you pay the DMV fine. I'm going to be confiscating your plates. And issuing you a summons for 512. Be advised that is a misdemeanor and cannot be "mailed in". Your appearance in court is mandatory. And seen as I am confiscating your plates you're going to have to pick a tow, or I will be happy to impound your vehicle for you for safekeeping.

 

[alkemyst]

See, you can't say that. As stated, I know how NY law works from experience. I was in a position several years ago where I fell into the category of "minimum-wage earner" and frankly, given car insurance or feeding my kids, I chose the latter. I still needed to get back and forth to work.

3 years later, I got back on my feet in a decent job. 8 years later I'm buying a house. If I were to have gotten into an accident and sued, I'd not be where I am today. So while I did fall into your stereotype category, my point is it could have easily affected me today, where I DON'T fall into that category anymore.

These days, 25/50 doesn't protect you worth crap when it comes to liability anyway.

You were a rarity.

25/50 would be shown to be adequate coverage for almost any non-homeowner. In a lawsuit the plantiff would have to decide to accept the policy or go for a private suit against the defendant. You can't get both.

Most would take the limit of $50k and use their "underinsured" coverage to fix it.

I have been in a few suits, I know how it works at least down here in Florida where we have a very high population of uninsured and illegal drivers. Those that are legal usually have absolutely no income on the record.

For a home owner like myself, I carry 100/300. The max available. I am middle class. In Florida they can't go after my home nor my 401K.

They'd be an idiot to try to give up $300k and sue me privately.

Also in the end a lawsuit is only as good as the paper the award is on when against a citizen. Most are never paid.

I carry my insurance for myself and uninsured motorist for those not insured or that just have the state basic.

 

[Paladin3]

So, if we instituted universal no-fault auto insurance, and it could be paid via a fee (% of value of vehicle) added on to our annual registration, and it cost the average driver only a fraction of their current insurance costs, would anyone here support it? Or would we stand on principal and demand everyone continue to pay for their own private insurance? Would the loss of the auto insurance industry be too high a price to pay?

 

[SunnyD]

Actually your registration gets suspended in NY for an insurance lapse. And if you get pulled over and found to be operating a vehicle with a suspended registration you get a summons for NYS VTL 512 (operating with suspended registration) and that is a vehicle and traffic law misdemeanor (just like a dwi). And your plates will be confiscated as well.

And you are correct about the suspended license after 30 days. Driving with a suspended license is also a misdemeanor (NYS VTL 511.1).

A common misconception on the street:

Officer: your registration is suspended for an insurance lapse
Driver: but I have insurance, my card is right here
Officer: yes, I see you have insurance on the vehicle now. However, you lapsed on x/x/xx date, and the DMV suspended your registration.
Driver: that's impossible, I have insurance.
Officer: yes, you do. but did you pay the DMV fine for the insurance lapse back when it lapsed on x/x/x date? (in NY there is a DMV charge of approx $8 per day for insurance lapses)
Driver: whaaaat?
Officer: Well you're registration stays suspended until you pay the DMV fine. I'm going to be confiscating your plates. And issuing you a summons for 512. Be advised that is a misdemeanor and cannot be "mailed in". Your appearance in court is mandatory.

For the record, this law in NY was not implemented as a safety precaution, but rather as a revenue generating device. Sinsear is absolutely correct in how the Officer/Driver interaction would work. There is little to no notification from the DMV about insurance lapses. You'll get a notice of suspension several weeks after the actual suspension occurs, and it's very unclear (or at least it used to be) that you would have to pay a fine prior to your suspension being lifted.

Interesting note in my case - out of two incidents, my license was suspended once. In both cases I let my registration expire, thereby lifting the suspension on the license.