UNC Chapel Hill being sued over Islam summer reading assignment

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
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Link to story

Honestly, don't Christian family associations in Mississippi have ANYTHING better to do? Have you stomped out the Klan yet? Must you tread on higher education...something your state probably doesn't even understand???

The opt-out provision didn't satisfy the plaintiffs, however. Their suit contends: "Students who opt out must still attend the seminars, where presumably their papers will be read, and the students exposed to ridicule and hostile questioning. They will also be ostracized by dissenters."
Folks, the GED diploma word of the day is, 'DISCUSSION' Can you spell that?

Its not like they're even reading the Qur'an--they're just reading a book about the Qur'an. And shouldn't college students be able to form their own viewpoint about things rather than accepting the author's work as absolute truth? I guess some folks in Mississippi just don't understand that.
 

Dudd

Platinum Member
Aug 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Cyberian
Would it be OK if this were a Bible study assignment?

Taken straight from the story



"The Bible has been taught in college core courses as part of Western Civilization probably since the beginning of college core courses," he said.

The answer looks to be yes.
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
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nothing new here. i wish there were more of these lame dead-on-arrival suits so we could find more
of these fundies in the poor house or out in some trailer park reservation.
 

Cyberian

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2000
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"The Bible has been taught in college core courses as part of Western Civilization probably since the beginning of college core courses," he said.
Whooosh! - I skipped right over that. My bad.

Regardless, I think at least a cursory examination of any major religion is a good idea, espescially in college. One shouldn't make decisions without having as much information as possible.
 

Stark

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2000
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The story isn't very specific. By the sound of it EVERY freshman was supposed to read this book or write a paper. It wasn't like they were signed up for a class on Western Religions, the middle east, or even Western Civ. It sounds like they wanted to force everyone to read the book.

If they forced every incoming freshman to read "Approaching the Christian Bible" a similar lawsuit would have been filed by the ACLU and other assorted atheist liberal wankers. The theist conservative wankers are just doing their part.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: Stark
The story isn't very specific. By the sound of it EVERY freshman was supposed to read this book or write a paper. It wasn't like they were signed up for a class on Western Religions, the middle east, or even Western Civ. It sounds like they wanted to force everyone to read the book.

If they forced every incoming freshman to read "Approaching the Christian Bible" a similar lawsuit would have been filed by the ACLU and other assorted atheist liberal wankers. The theist conservative wankers are just doing their part.

Actually the story is fairly specific about what's going on.

But UNC Chapel Hill Chancellor James Moeser has defended the requirement that this fall's freshmen read "Approaching the Qur'án: The Early Revelations" by Michael Sells, a professor of religion at Haverford College.

"We chose the book because since September 11 many of us have wondered what the core teachings of Islam really are," Moeser has said in e-mail responses to questions about the assignment.

"We expect Carolina students as part of their education to learn about ideas, philosophies and practices that they never encountered before and that may differ from their own. ... We offer the summer reading this year in that spirit of seeking understanding -- not in advocacy of Islam over Christianity or Judaism or any other religion."

The summer reading requirement is designed to introduce students to intellectual life and stimulate discussion and critical thinking about a current topic. It involves reading the book over the summer, writing a one-page paper and participating in a two-hour discussion about it.

The college gave students the option of not reading the book and writing a paper instead on why they chose not to -- though that option wasn't posted on the university's Web site until last week.


I don't see what's so terribly unreasonable about that. They're required to read a given book each year (chosen by UNC) or write a paper about why they chose not to read it. A book on Islam seemed appropriate given recent events (and I agree). The AFA needs to mind its own business.
 
Oct 16, 1999
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The problem here is that the college is forcing this on the students. This isn't a class you choose to take, or even a requirement for the major you choose. And reading a book 'about' the Qur'an makes it even worse really. You are getting someone's opinion and interpretation instead of generating those from the source yourself. UNC is turning into the Berkely of the east coast.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
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"The Bible has been taught in college core courses as part of Western Civilization probably since the beginning of college core courses," he said.

This, of course, is not correct.

I have taken quite a few "western civ" courses during my college career. None of the "core" courses taught Christian theology and interpretation. Mr. Sells' literary work does not teach the historical relevancy of the Koran, its an interpretation of Muslim theological text. This work belongs in a religious study curriculum, not as mandatory reading for all incoming freshman students.

I would hope that all those who are opposed to the pledge of allegiance (in it's current form) being led in our public schools would similarly take offense at this forced indoctrination of the Muslim faith on the youth of our nation.
 

Spoooon

Lifer
Mar 3, 2000
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"The college gave students the option of not reading the book and writing a paper instead on why they chose not to -- though that option wasn't posted on the university's Web site until last week."

Well, if they have the option not to, then I don't see what the big deal is.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
The problem here is that the college is forcing this on the students. This isn't a class you choose to take, or even a requirement for the major you choose. And reading a book 'about' the Qur'an makes it even worse really. You are getting someone's opinion and interpretation instead of generating those from the source yourself. UNC is turning into the Berkely of the east coast.

This is a college, not a public school you are required to attend. Colleges have arbitrary requirements to "broaden learning" that are outside classes you choose or the requirements of the major you choose. I took appreciating Film in college because my college required a liberal arts class. Do you get your panties in a bunch about that?

College isn't HS. You can read a book completely disagree with every word in it then write your paper about how horrible of a book it is.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
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This is a college, not a public school you are required to attend.

Irrelevant. The fact that college is not compulsory does not invalidate the first ammendment. Isn't this a publicly funded institution?

By the very nature of this university's forced (and belatedly rescinded) reading of a theological interpretation of a single religion to the exclusion of all others, is a violation of the first ammendment establishment clause.

These required so-called "discussions" about this theological text will lay the groundwork to discourage dissenting opinion by the new students: Toe the line or get beat down and labled a racist, bigot, or intolerant.

The fallout surrounding these "discussions" will be amusing, I'm sure.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Corn
This is a college, not a public school you are required to attend.

Irrelevant. The fact that college is not compulsory does not invalidate the first ammendment. Isn't this a publicly funded institution?

By the very nature of this university's forced (and belatedly rescinded) reading of a theological interpretation of a single religion to the exclusion of all others, is a violation of the first ammendment establishment clause.

These required so-called "discussions" about this theological text will lay the groundwork to discourage dissenting opinion by the new students: Toe the line or get beat down and labled a racist, bigot, or intolerant.

The fallout surrounding these "discussions" will be amusing, I'm sure.

Its no violation of the first ammendment. It's RELAVENT political discourse. But why don't you tell us what the book says, give us a few quote because on the basis of your statements I'm interpreting that you have actually read the book because you keep making statements about what is contained in the book.

Or by chance are you actually slaming a book you have never read. Quick start the fires lets have a book burning!
 
Oct 16, 1999
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Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
The problem here is that the college is forcing this on the students. This isn't a class you choose to take, or even a requirement for the major you choose. And reading a book 'about' the Qur'an makes it even worse really. You are getting someone's opinion and interpretation instead of generating those from the source yourself. UNC is turning into the Berkely of the east coast.

This is a college, not a public school you are required to attend. Colleges have arbitrary requirements to "broaden learning" that are outside classes you choose or the requirements of the major you choose. I took appreciating Film in college because my college required a liberal arts class. Do you get your panties in a bunch about that?

College isn't HS. You can read a book completely disagree with every word in it then write your paper about how horrible of a book it is.

Uh, yeah, I've been to college, I know what it's about. It's about learning to make choices, for the first time in your life, without regard to what someone tells you to do. You were required to take a liberal arts class, you CHOSE film. If you were a Jew and the film class revolved around Nazi propaganda films, you may have CHOSEN to take something else. Were these students given a choice to which religious-related text to read?
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
The problem here is that the college is forcing this on the students. This isn't a class you choose to take, or even a requirement for the major you choose. And reading a book 'about' the Qur'an makes it even worse really. You are getting someone's opinion and interpretation instead of generating those from the source yourself. UNC is turning into the Berkely of the east coast.

This is a college, not a public school you are required to attend. Colleges have arbitrary requirements to "broaden learning" that are outside classes you choose or the requirements of the major you choose. I took appreciating Film in college because my college required a liberal arts class. Do you get your panties in a bunch about that?

College isn't HS. You can read a book completely disagree with every word in it then write your paper about how horrible of a book it is.

Uh, yeah, I've been to college, I know what it's about. It's about learning to make choices, for the first time in your life, without regard to what someone tells you to do. You were required to take a liberal arts class, you CHOSE film. If you were a Jew and the film class revolved around Nazi propaganda films, you may have CHOSEN to take something else. Were these students given a choice to which religious-related text to read?

I attended a state institution. Certain general education classes were required. In some cases I could choose between 1 or 2 classes but schedule constraints often eliminated choice. Does that mean the college forced me to learn about something I didn't want to learn. Can you be harmed by being forced to learn something at an institution of higher learning? And above all, you aren't required to attend an institution of higher learning. Should you choose to you can easily refuse to comply and either leave the institution or petition to have the requirement removed. No rule in college cannot be petitioned that I'm aware of.

I really see nothing wrong with a summer assignment that consits of reading or not reading a book then writing a single page discussing your position. It's a basic introductory lesson in college along with the stimulation of learning outside what you have been exposed to which is one of the goals of Universities.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
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Quick start the fires lets have a book burning!

Thanks for proving my point so quickly Rahvin:

These required so-called "discussions" about this theological text will lay the groundwork to discourage dissenting opinion by the new students: Toe the line or get beat down and labled a racist, bigot, or intolerant.

You do not need to read a book to have an understanding of what it contains. Is the author and publisher's description of the book good enough for you?

This is a religious text, designed for religious study.
 

Stark

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2000
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College isn't HS. You can read a book completely disagree with every word in it then write your paper about how horrible of a book it is.
Sure, unless you want to get an A grade from the tree-hugging, muslim-loving, ACLU-card-carrying, left-wing, former hippy, tenured prof. teaching the class.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
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Originally posted by: Corn
Quick start the fires lets have a book burning!

Thanks for proving my point so quickly Rahvin:

These required so-called "discussions" about this theological text will lay the groundwork to discourage dissenting opinion by the new students: Toe the line or get beat down and labled a racist, bigot, or intolerant.

You do not need to read a book to have an understanding of what it contains. Is the author and publisher's description of the book good enough for you?

This is a religious text, designed for religious study.

Yes, I do think the publishers quoted reviews are very descriptive:

?Approaching the Qur?an is a sensitive and unusually accessible first book on the Qur?an and its function as scripture for over one-seventh of the human race. For the reader who knows little of Islam and Muslim piety, this book opens up many facets of the special role that the Qur?an plays in Muslim life and thought. Dr. Sells is to be congratulated for a significant contribution to English-language materials on the Qur?an.?
-- William A. Graham is professor of the History of Religion and Islamic Studies at Harvard University, and author of Divine Word, Prophetic Word in Early Islam.

?Michael Sells? Approaching the Qur?an is much more than a translation of the Qur?an. The work is a carefully considered introduction to a religious appreciation of the text from within a scholarly framework. By highlighting issues of the multiple levels upon which the text conveys its meaning to its readers and auditors, Sells manages to overcome the first impression that many people have of the Qur'an being a ?difficult? book. The structure of Approaching the Qur?an, with its parallel translation and commentary, will prove valuable both for interested general readers and for students studying the text within a classroom setting.?
-- Andrew Rippin is professor of Islamic and Religious Studies, University of Calgary, an associate editor of the Encyclopedia of the Qur?an, and editor of Approaches to the History of the Interpretation of the Qur?an.

It would almost seem that the university is trying to get students to UNDERSTAND why Islam is the way it is so they can form relevant and intelligent opinions on US foriegn policy. Hmmm, teaching someone to learn at an instutition devoted to it.

So are you scared that people might learn something about Islam or do you think this is an elaborate program by UNC to brainwash it's students into Islam?
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
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It's RELAVENT political discourse.

No, it's religious. This book is an interpretation of segments of the Koran. Do not confuse this with a commentary of how the Koran has affected civilization.

As expected, you misrepresent the intentions of those that disagree with your nonsensical and hypocritical rhetoric. I don't have a problem with this book being taught in a religious study curriculum (even at a publicly funded university), or by the elective of the individual student. I'll leave the book burning to you.

 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Stark
College isn't HS. You can read a book completely disagree with every word in it then write your paper about how horrible of a book it is.
Sure, unless you want to get an A grade from the tree-hugging, muslim-loving, ACLU-card-carrying, left-wing, former hippy, tenured prof. teaching the class.

You can appeal any grade a professor gives you to the Dean. I knew quite a few people that weren't pantywaists that did put their opinion down and then defended their opinion to the Dean and ended up with the grade they deserved. Not everyone is a lazy little pantywaist that lets professors walk all over them.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
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So are you scared that people might learn something about Islam or do you think this is an elaborate program by UNC to brainwash it's students into Islam?

No Rahvin, my concern is with regard to the treatment of those that chose not to read this book (for whatever reason) at the hands of people like you. You've already shown the type of argument you would make. Your intolerance for a different point of view (in spite of fact) is quite terrifying. Now amplify that by a couple hundred voices..........
 

chiwawa626

Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
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Im brown, im not Christian and i have to read the Bible for summer reading. If a whole buncha brown people like me got up and sued someone over reading the bible, id prolly get carbombed...jeeze...
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: Cyberian
Would it be OK if this were a Bible study assignment?

Everyone who went to my high school - mind you not a conservative christian high school - was REQUIRED to read the Bible for English, but no other religious text was ever required in any other classes. I am absolutely certain this goes on in numerous other HSs and colleges around the nation, so don't try to turn this around.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
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Im brown, im not Christian and i have to read the Bible for summer reading. If a whole buncha brown people like me got up and sued someone over reading the bible, id prolly get carbombed...jeeze...

Thanks for playing the race game chiwawa626. I love the fact that people like you and Rahvin keep winning my arguments for me.

This is great, first I'm a book burner, next if the shoe were on the other foot the "brown" people would fear for their lives from us racist white christian folk.

Good stuff, keep it coming!