Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

Page 97 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
1
0
If CC was illegal, this kid would be alive right now.

You dont need a firearm outside your premises you fuckin gun nuts.

Fuck May-issue, it should be Wont-issue.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
The only thing we agree on is that Martin was winning the fight against a guy 100lbs heavier than him. It would be some pansy-ass who after starting a fistfight, gets his ass whooped by a guy half his size, and feels justified in killing someone.

Maybe that's what bothers me the most about this. This was basically a schoolyard fight - you throw some punches, you take some licks, you get bloodied up some. Why did this escalate to a killing? Heck a barfight is way more dangerous with people intoxicated and plenty of objects around. A fight in the middle of a decent, residential neighborhood hardly seems like the danger zone.

Has everyone turned into a wuss? How is there a direct escalation from a brawl to a shooting. I'm 160lbs - even if a 90lb monster (same weight proportions) of a fighter is whooping my ass on a lawn, you turtle up, defend, and give up - you lost.

Zimmerman was clearly able to shoot Martin accurately, was able to stand immediately after, was able to speak clearly to neighbors after, had the presence of mind to put down his gun and claim it was self defense. This is the result of a vicious beating that he felt his life was in danger? Are we even talking about the same thing? Do we both believe men should be able to handle themselves without resorting to the ultimate violence?

Beyond a bloody nose and some cuts on the back of his head (which some normal in taking a few punches and wrestling on the ground and pavement) he seemed fine - hardly taking what some call a "vicious beating" (unless that's what constitutes one in Texas). Heck I've taken worse damage in a game of flag football that got a little rough.

The pansy ass coward who couldn't stand taking his lumps, who could have rolled away and ended the fight (and no a 17 year old, 140lb, clean kid isn't going to ghetto stomp him to death - are you fucking kidding me?), only b/c he has a gun to compensate for his lack of success in the world, can't stand it and kills him.
You see, for Zimmerman, getting Martin wasn't about justice. It was about revenge. Martin fit the profile Zimmerman was looking for.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
If CC was illegal, this kid would be alive right now.

You dont need a firearm outside your premises you fuckin gun nuts.

Fuck May-issue, it should be Wont-issue.

This I agree with.

I'm sure guns were necessary in the days of log cabins when like a bear might break in and eat all of your food.

But we have a nice police state in this country where committing and getting away with petty crimes is actually fairly difficult.
 

RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
1
0
This I agree with.

I'm sure guns were necessary in the days of log cabins when like a bear might break in and eat all of your food.

But we have a nice police state in this country where committing and getting away with petty crimes is actually fairly difficult.

But the second amendment!!!! Raaaawwwww!!!

It aint 1776 anymore dickheads.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,165
30,117
146
Ok -at this point Spidey - it's clear you haven't even listened to the 911 call that Zimmerman made - why are you even talking about this?

Spidey needs to believe that the shooter is always right.

it doesn't matter, he will never be able to see otherwise.


Even better, in Spidey's eyes, that the dead person is a black kid.

good shoot.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Typically, when someone is being relentless attacked, especially if the attacker is on top of them, wouldn't a "normal" person who is fearing for their life, fire multiple shots into their attacker, especially with their adrenaline going?

:hmm:
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
17 year old kid walking on sidewalk a little after 7PM
26 year old "self appointed neighborhood watch captain" reports to police that 17 year old is suspicious (for walking on the sidewalk between the hours of 7PM and 8PM)
Cops tell him we are on the way and to backoff.
26 year old continues to follow 17 year old (Driving at 2-3mph at night behind a person walking on the sidewalk)
17 year old, after noticing some guy is following him (at night, behind him..lights on) asks "Whats you problem"
26 year stops and exits vehicle.....
fight ensues
26 shoots 17 year old.

No charges filed against 26 year old.

W
T
F
?

This was Standard Operating Procedure back before the Civil Rights Struggle. Back then, an Afro-American could get murdered for being Afro-American.

It would be easy to say nothing has changed in the last 60 years. But 60 years ago, if a black male was murdered for walking on a sidewalk it probably would not have been reported or made big a deal of.

Someone in another thread wrote that the Civil Rights Legistration was really about oppressing the majority....
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
So what are the proven facts of the case?

This I agree with.

I'm sure guns were necessary in the days of log cabins when like a bear might break in and eat all of your food.

But we have a nice police state in this country where committing and getting away with petty crimes is actually fairly difficult.

This is false.

Along the Texas-Mexican boarder you are a fool not to be ready to defend against the Mexicans.
 
Last edited:

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
I cant be arsed to read all 2000 odd posts in this thread but is the bolded accurate?

following after a suspected criminal running away <> aggressor.

If he killed him while running then it would be different.

The debate is the fight that took place during the chase which led to a shooting.

In Florida, if someone decides to try and kill you in a fight, you can shoot to kill.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
This I agree with.

I'm sure guns were necessary in the days of log cabins when like a bear might break in and eat all of your food.

But we have a nice police state in this country where committing and getting away with petty crimes is actually fairly difficult.

the right to bear arms had nothing to do with protection from animals.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
If CC was illegal, this kid would be alive right now.

You dont need a firearm outside your premises you fuckin gun nuts.

Fuck May-issue, it should be Wont-issue.

did you read about the hit-kill-runs happening down here in Florida?

a gun would be handy in those situations...oh and car jackings that they still want to kill you after they have your car...

People don't want others to have guns because they think it will keep criminals from having them.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
People don't want others to have guns because they think it will keep criminals from having them.
No. I don't want non-criminals that are just assholes to become murderers and destroy the lives of two families.

Fuck your car, it's just a fucking car. it is NOT worth a human life; it is NOT worth risking the life of someone else who may become "collateral damage".
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
No. I don't want non-criminals that are just assholes to become murderers and destroy the lives of two families.

Fuck your car, it's just a fucking car. it is NOT worth a human life; it is NOT worth risking the life of someone else who may become "collateral damage".

except they are killing people after they take the car...

it's clear you don't get out much and have no clue on the current affairs of the country.

Like many you probably know everything about the presidential candidates, what's going on in some three world war, etc...
 

RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
1
0
did you read about the hit-kill-runs happening down here in Florida?

a gun would be handy in those situations...oh and car jackings that they still want to kill you after they have your car...

People don't want others to have guns because they think it will keep criminals from having them.

So, you're getting jacked by some guys with guns, and you thing drawing on em is going to end well?
 

RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
1
0
did you read about the hit-kill-runs happening down here in Florida?

a gun would be handy in those situations...oh and car jackings that they still want to kill you after they have your car...

People don't want others to have guns because they think it will keep criminals from having them.

Or I'm at the local Starbucks when it gets robbed. Some dickhead with a CCW thinks he's a hero and draws. He gets dead, the perps on an M1, so they proceed to murder everyone else.

Great.

Obviously a hypothetical. But seriously, if crime happens to you, 9/10, having a gun on you will make things worse. For you, and surrounding peeps.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Just because spidey is coming off as an ignorant douche, that doesn't mean everyone is like him, and it certainly doesn't grant you the power to decide what right people should have. Using a bad apple to generalize an entire group of people to justify your point of view makes you no better than he is.

Bringing gun control issue into this thread is just a bad idea

News flash: laws are relevant to the best and worst people, not some ideal situation.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
except they are killing people after they take the car...

and CC nut-bags are killing people while they take the car; difference is the CC nut-bag has is infinitely more likely to kill someone than a simple car-jacker is to kill someone.

I'm just calling for some basic psychological screening before allowing for CC... is there some reason this is too onerous of a burden for you Alky?
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
except they are killing people after they take the car...

it's clear you don't get out much and have no clue on the current affairs of the country.

Like many you probably know everything about the presidential candidates, what's going on in some three world war, etc...

Let's not divert the subject, let's deal with the case of Trayvon Martin.

You gun nutz think it's okay for some self appointed dude with his CC to pull up to a young kid, with absolutely no criminal recod, just going home to watch NBA all star game wit his family, and for this dude to use his gun in this confrontation that he started, kill the kid, and just get away by uttering the magic word self defense?

Where is Trayvon Martin's right to stay alive? Where is the rest us's right to walk down the street without being followed, questioned and stopped by someone armed with gun, with no authority, no training to deal with this situation? Are you gonna give us a handbook on how to deal with this situation so we don't get shot just so you people can exercise your CC in whatever role and environment you dreamed up?

The point is, you and people like Spidy can't think logically, act responsibly and support people like Zimmerman that put general public's safety and rights at risk. If you people can't self regulate and show to this society you can exercise your right responsibly, we as a society have no choice but to take that right away to make sure our basic right, to live and free from interference by you gun nutz in our day to day life, is guaranteed.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Or I'm at the local Starbucks when it gets robbed. Some dickhead with a CCW thinks he's a hero and draws. He gets dead, the perps on an M1, so they proceed to murder everyone else.

Great.

Obviously a hypothetical. But seriously, if crime happens to you, 9/10, having a gun on you will make things worse. For you, and surrounding peeps.

What exactly makes you such an authority on these matters? Where do you get your info from re: 9/10? Also, if a scenario you create is so likely, how come it's not happening on a daily basis?

People have a right to defend themselves. Sure, it's not 1776 anymore, and times have changed, but fundamental rights should not. You still have the right to defend yourself, and that includes being armed. Do you think parts of the constitution simply shouldn't apply anymore because it was written a long time ago? Really?
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
and CC nut-bags are killing people while they take the car; difference is the CC nut-bag has is infinitely more likely to kill someone than a simple car-jacker is to kill someone.

Interesting, got any links to back that up? Never mind, I know you don't, because it's been shown that people with CC permits are actually LESS likely than the average person to commit a crime.

I'm just calling for some basic psychological screening before allowing for CC... is there some reason this is too onerous of a burden for you Alky?

Yes, it's to onerous of a burden because it's basically a subjective test that will be used to deny people their fundamental constitutional rights. There should be clear drawn objective rules as far as who can carry. Those rules exist today (ie, no felony convictions and so forth).

The bottom line is, with all the hysteria that goes with the CC debates before it gets introduced in each state, we've never seen any of the doom and gloom predictions come true. Crime does not rise, and it doesn't become the wild wild west.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,142
5,089
136
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/u...in-florida-teenagers-shooting-death.html?_r=1
The police in of Sanford, where the shooting took place, are not revealing details of the investigation. Late Friday night, after weeks of pressure, the police played the 911 calls in the case for the family and gave copies to the news media. On the recordings, one shot, an apparent warning or miss, is heard, followed by a voice begging or pleading, and a cry. A second shot is then heard, and the pleading stops.
&#8220;It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,&#8221; said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net