Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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That's as plausible as 1. 2. being the same.

Then Trayvon Martin and Mr. Zimmerman run into each other again and Trayvon Martin tries to get away again and Mr. Zimmerman tries to stop him by grabbing him and then Trayvon swings.

i know. but it really is unknowable
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
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We know that didn't happen. We know for a fact that Zimmerman returned to his vehicle and drove till he found him again. A newscast tracked where Zimmerman first made the call to where Martin was shot. It was a way over on the other side of the development.

really? go on
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,132
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1. How did the shooting happen away from the road? Contradicts some opinions that Martin "pulled" Zimmerman from the car and started beating on him. Unless of course a 140lb kid pulled a 250lb man across a sidewalk, lawn, and up to someone's porch.

Damn - world's strongest 140lb man.

Unless of course...dum dum dum...Zimmerman got out of his car and chased him to that spot where they started struggling.

Quote:
"They're wrestling right in the back of my porch," one frantic caller says. "The guy's yelling help and I'm not going out."

2. Not confirmed but certainly an interesting opinion:

But law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler who listened to the tapes tells ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.

"When I listened to the 911 tape the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he's slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away and I think that's going to be an important element of this entire investigation," Wheeler said.

But Zimmerman was not tested.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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spidey07 has got to be the dumbest conservative on this board. Without a doubt the dumbest. He can't even argue a point without making shit up and shitting all over the conversation with his racist thoughts.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
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spidey07 has got to be the dumbest conservative on this board. Without a doubt the dumbest. He can't even argue a point without making shit up and shitting all over the conversation with his racist thoughts.

Let me know when you have evidence this wasnt lawful self defense.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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Let me know when you have evidence this wasnt lawful self defense.

Zimmerman hunting a teenager in fear of his life and killing him is not "lawful self defense". The 911 calls say so. The main road block to resolving this case is the PD. They are on record for lying and grossly mishandling this case.

As for you, your fabrications are evidence that you are stupid, stubborn and racist.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Was Martin tested for drugs? If not, why not.

Let's see . . . because he didn't kill anyone while acting as self-appointed law enforcement?

Actually if they did an autopsy it's likely they would have tested him for substances, but since he was a healthy, athletic teenager who was shot in the chest, I wouldn't expect there would be much doubt about his cause of death.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
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Zimmerman hunting a teenager in fear of his life and killing him is not "lawful self defense". The 911 calls say so. The main road block to resolving this case is the PD. They are on record for lying and grossly mishandling this case.

As for you, your fabrications are evidence that you are stupid, stubborn and racist.

So I take that as you have nothing.
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,132
93
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And what happened after that has not been released, but zimmerman says Martin was the aggresor (backed up by evidence) and there is no evidence to dispute this.

The only thing we agree on is that Martin was winning the fight against a guy 100lbs heavier than him. It would be some pansy-ass who after starting a fistfight, gets his ass whooped by a guy half his size, and feels justified in killing someone.

Maybe that's what bothers me the most about this. This was basically a schoolyard fight - you throw some punches, you take some licks, you get bloodied up some. Why did this escalate to a killing? Heck a barfight is way more dangerous with people intoxicated and plenty of objects around. A fight in the middle of a decent, residential neighborhood hardly seems like the danger zone.

Has everyone turned into a wuss? How is there a direct escalation from a brawl to a shooting. I'm 160lbs - even if a 90lb monster (same weight proportions) of a fighter is whooping my ass on a lawn, you turtle up, defend, and give up - you lost.

Zimmerman was clearly able to shoot Martin accurately, was able to stand immediately after, was able to speak clearly to neighbors after, had the presence of mind to put down his gun and claim it was self defense. This is the result of a vicious beating that he felt his life was in danger? Are we even talking about the same thing? Do we both believe men should be able to handle themselves without resorting to the ultimate violence?

Beyond a bloody nose and some cuts on the back of his head (which some normal in taking a few punches and wrestling on the ground and pavement) he seemed fine - hardly taking what some call a "vicious beating" (unless that's what constitutes one in Texas). Heck I've taken worse damage in a game of flag football that got a little rough.

The pansy ass coward who couldn't stand taking his lumps, who could have rolled away and ended the fight (and no a 17 year old, 140lb, clean kid isn't going to ghetto stomp him to death - are you fucking kidding me?), only b/c he has a gun to compensate for his lack of success in the world, can't stand it and kills him.
 
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CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
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Let's see . . . because he didn't kill anyone while acting as self-appointed law enforcement?
Mr. Zimmerman is an official Neighbor Watch Captain. I believe that gives him more law enforcement authority than "tattletale", though somewhat less than "hall monitor".
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,132
93
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Was Martin tested for drugs? If not, why not.

Maybe b/c he didn't shoot someone, maybe b/c he has no run-ins with the law (unlike Zimmerman), maybe b/c he wasn't carrying any sort of illegal substance (OMG Skittles), and maybe b/c he's the dead one.

Cops involved in a shooting by normal practice have to get tested for drugs. Not sure why a civilian who killed someone (claiming self defense or not) wouldn't have the same standard process.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
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So I take that as you have nothing.

The only thing I have is what the cops are willing to provide, which are the 911 calls and the witnesses. What do you have that shows without a doubt that this was "legal self defense"?
 

CLite

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2005
1,726
7
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*warning graphic links to the screams of a young man pleading for his life*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmnqKotpSD0&t=0m3s - first scream
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmnqKotpSD0&t=0m23s - scream prior to shot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmnqKotpSD0&t=0m39s - yell directly before shot

*edit* was wrong about time of shot, updated links.

After listening a bit more it's clear the voices got further away at the time of the shot as compared to the beginning of the clip. I imagine they engaged in a struggle followed by an additional chase. A 140 pound kid can inflict some damage when fighting for his life (although obviously not subdue a 250 pound man who has been training and dreaming to be a police officer). All circumstantial evidence points to a racist cop (previously in trouble for not making an arrest for a videotapped beat-down of a black homeless male), leading Zimmerman, who clearly initiated the confrontation with Martin, to answers that would result in a coverup of this tragedy.
 
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Feb 10, 2000
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The only thing we agree on is that Martin was winning the fight against a guy 100lbs heavier than him. It would be some pansy-ass who after starting a fistfight, gets his ass whooped by a guy half his size, and feels justified in killing someone.

Maybe that's what bothers me the most about this. This was basically a schoolyard fight - you throw some punches, you take some licks, you get bloodied up some. Why did this escalate to a killing? Heck a barfight is way more dangerous with people intoxicated and plenty of objects around. A fight in the middle of a decent, residential neighborhood hardly seems like the danger zone.

Has everyone turned into a wuss? How is there a direct escalation from a brawl to a shooting. I'm 160lbs - even if a 90lb monster (same weight proportions) of a fighter is whooping my ass on a lawn, you turtle up, defend, and give up - you lost.

Zimmerman was clearly able to shoot Martin accurately, was able to stand immediately after, was able to speak clearly to neighbors after, had the presence of mind to put down his gun and claim it was self defense. This is the result of a vicious beating that he felt his life was in danger? Are we even talking about the same thing? Do we both believe men should be able to handle themselves without resorting to the ultimate violence?

Beyond a bloody nose and some cuts on the back of his head (which some normal in taking a few punches and wrestling on the ground and pavement) he seemed fine - hardly taking what some call a "vicious beating" (unless that's what constitutes one in Texas). Heck I've taken worse damage in a game of flag football that got a little rough.

The pansy ass coward who couldn't stand taking his lumps, who could have rolled away and ended the fight (and no a 17 year old, 140lb, clean kid isn't going to ghetto stomp him to death - are you fucking kidding me?), only b/c he has a gun to compensate for his lack of success in the world, can't stand it and kills him.

This pretty much sums up why this law is such a dangerous proposition.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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spidey07 has got to be the dumbest conservative on this board. Without a doubt the dumbest. He can't even argue a point without making shit up and shitting all over the conversation with his racist thoughts.

Yeah, I think I would find him incredibly annoying if I shared his political views - he's just an embarrassment. A number of other posters here (like londo_jawo) are taking largely the same view, but in a reasonable and intelligent way.
 
Jan 25, 2011
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Yeah, I think I would find him incredibly annoying if I shared his political views - he's just an embarrassment. A number of other posters here (like londo_jawo) are taking largely the same view, but in a reasonable and intelligent way.

Funny you phrase it that way. Out of morbid curiosity I check to see how the freeper ditto heads were responding to this. Figured it would be all about Martin. Nope. Spidey is FAR to the right of even that group. Now that speaks volumes.
 

CLite

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2005
1,726
7
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Regarding the deranged poster screaming good shot:

Florida licensing website
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Florida Law said:
Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.
Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

So a garden hose doesn't warrant a lethal shot but a 140 pound teenagers fists warrant it, after being chased.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Yeah, I think I would find him incredibly annoying if I shared his political views - he's just an embarrassment. A number of other posters here (like londo_jawo) are taking largely the same view, but in a reasonable and intelligent way.

Not just an embarrassment, but he is doing a disservice to those with his view. For example, gun ownership. The way he continue on and on like only gun owners have right, and can use it anywhere in any situation, with just uttering the world self defense and literally get away with murder. If that's how gun owner really believe and act with total disregard of the right of general public, it maybe time to for America to start limiting gun rights.

He is the perfect advertisement of how not to allow people with all these gun right, self defense right....and that's a disservice to those who would use gun in real danger, and using self defense clause in real applicable situation.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
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Was Martin tested for drugs? If not, why not.

Was Zimmerman? If not, why? He is the dangerous animal that should have been tested, since he killed someone. Honestly, its gotten to the point where arguing with spidey lost its charm. He lacks the mental capacity to understand anything that comes in from outside of his preconceived notions. In his eyes, black people are subhuman who at best should be enslaved, so one being shot is the natural order of things.
 
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kyp275

Member
Jul 21, 2003
75
0
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Not just an embarrassment, but he is doing a disservice to those with his view. For example, gun ownership. The way he continue on and on like only gun owners have right, and can use it anywhere in any situation, with just uttering the world self defense and literally get away with murder. If that's how gun owner really believe and act with total disregard of the right of general public, it maybe time to for America to start limiting gun rights.

He is the perfect advertisement of how not to allow people with all these gun right, self defense right....and that's a disservice to those who would use gun in real danger, and using self defense clause in real applicable situation.

Just because spidey is coming off as an ignorant douche, that doesn't mean everyone is like him, and it certainly doesn't grant you the power to decide what right people should have. Using a bad apple to generalize an entire group of people to justify your point of view makes you no better than he is.

Bringing gun control issue into this thread is just a bad idea
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
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Bringing gun control issue into this thread is just a bad idea

False.

If anything it is clear that psychological profiling should be required before we let nut-jobs with blood-lust have a gun.

I'm sure there's a psych-check before a cop is allowed to work as a cop; we should require the same thing for a CC permit.

ps

18 posts since 03... you a backup pupet for a recent ban or just very hesitant to speak?