Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

Page 93 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
The police, investigation and evidence show T was the aggressor.

You have evidence that is not the case?

The police tampered with witnesses and lied about what's on the 911 tapes. You honestly believe anything the police say at this point? You are a racist ass, why bother even asking.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,477
9,378
136
The police, investigation and evidence show T was the aggressor.

You have evidence that is not the case?

I dunno. If some guy was kerb crawling you for awhile then he got out of his car and advanced towards you with a gun I'm pretty sure you would be saying that you would have a reason to shoot him.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I will still wait until I have the complete story before I make a final decision on this case. At the point the prosecutor has said there's not enough to charge Mr Zimmerman with manslaughter. The case has been in the states attorney's hands since Tuesday afternoon and no charges have been brought up. There's more to this than what has been released to this point.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
911 calls.

The 911 callers were not eye witnesses. Four reported that there was an argument, fight/scuffle, calls for help, and a shot had been fired.

Another was not an eye witness but you could hear the calls for help and the shot.

The last caller was after that shooting had occurred, described what they had heard, and what they saw after someone (most likely a police officer) arrived with a flashlight. The caller wasn't an eye witness either.

None of these calls provided any evidence that showed either was the aggressor. It's also difficult to determine who was crying out for help.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,221
18,686
146
I will still wait until I have the complete story before I make a final decision on this case. At the point the prosecutor has said there's not enough to charge Mr Zimmerman with manslaughter. The case has been in the states attorney's hands since Tuesday afternoon and no charges have been brought up. There's more to this than what has been released to this point.

I agree. I'd rather the prosecutors wait until they have a concrete case to proceed. That's not to say Zimmerman's well being will be up to par with a trial if the prosecutors take to long.
 

RedString

Senior member
Feb 24, 2011
299
0
0
So why is this thread over 2000 replies long?


This.

No is not. Police and evidence say T was the aggressor

Evidence that he chased him? This is the story many are imagining in their head.


Idiots trying to justify Zimmermans actions while blatantly disregarding proof that he did indeed follow and chase the kid (Z literally said on the 911 call he was following him, as well as the location where this all went down was far from road - all point to Z chasing M down.)

Just 2-3 people trolling and making asses of themselves.


None of these calls provided any evidence that showed either was the aggressor.

See above.


I dunno. If some guy was kerb crawling you for awhile then he got out of his car and advanced towards you with a gun I'm pretty sure you would be saying that you would have a reason to shoot him.


If Martin was Spidey, he would have obviously carried his gun on his way to get skittles and some tea and would have shot the man the moment he seen his gun after the guy got out after following him. Which would bring a whole nother slew of arguments into play. I think Spideys arguments would stay about the same though. Self defense, no witness! *paste law 100x*
 
Last edited:

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,221
18,686
146
The 911 callers were not eye witnesses. Four reported that there was an argument, fight/scuffle, calls for help, and a shot had been fired.

Another was not an eye witness but you could hear the calls for help and the shot.

The last caller was after that shooting had occurred, described what they had heard, and what they saw after someone (most likely a police officer) arrived with a flashlight. The caller wasn't an eye witness either.

None of these calls provided any evidence that showed either was the aggressor. It's also difficult to determine who was crying out for help.

And Zimmerman is not considered an eye witness either.

I am referring directly to Zimmerman getting out of his car and pursuing the suspect. At that point, he's taking the law into his own hands. The 911 recordings make that clear, and the dispatcher requested he disembark. The suspect fled without ever saying a word to Zimmerman.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,221
18,686
146
I dunno. If some guy was kerb crawling you for awhile then he got out of his car and advanced towards you with a gun I'm pretty sure you would be saying that you would have a reason to shoot him.

And then cue Kid Rock - Cowboy.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
And Zimmerman is not considered an eye witness either.

I am referring directly to Zimmerman getting out of his car and pursuing the suspect. At that point, he's taking the law into his own hands. The 911 recordings make that clear, and the dispatcher requested he disembark. The suspect fled without ever saying a word to Zimmerman.

Hate to tell you this but Mr Zimmerman is a witness and would be in any state. He's been interviewed three times by the police. I'm sure that the last two were recorded and had a psychologist observing him via a two way mirror to watch his body language. I find it quite odd that he didn't have an attorney present during the questioning. This would lead someone to believe he has nothing to hide and is telling the truth.

I've seen no sworn testimony stating that Mr Zimmerman chased Trayvon, only hearsay on the internet and in here.

After the state and 3rd parties have reviewed this case and we've seen the what is released to the public is when we'll know what actually transpired.
 
Last edited:

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,221
18,686
146
Hate to tell you this but Mr Zimmerman is a witness and would be in any state. He's been interviewed three times by the police. I'm sure that the last two were recorded and had a psychologist observing him via a two way mirror to watch his body language. I find it quite odd that he didn't have an attorney present during the questioning. This would lead someone to believe he has nothing to hide and is telling the truth.

I've seen no sworn testimony stating that Mr Zimmerman chased Trayvon, only hearsay on the internet and in here.

After the state and 3rd parties have reviewed this case and we've seen the what is released to the public is when we'll know what actually transpired.

If it gets to trial, maybe the other "witness" can take the stand. just roll his casket up to the booth.

Sworn testimony? Zimmerman's phone call says it.

did you listen to the 911 recordings?
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
This.




Idiots trying to justify Zimmermans actions while blatantly disregarding proof that he did indeed follow and chase the kid (Z literally said on the 911 call he was following him, as well as the location where this all went down was far from road - all point to Z chasing M down.)

Just 2-3 people trolling and making asses of themselves.




See above.





If Martin was Spidey, he would have obviously carried his gun on his way to get skittles and some tea and would have shot the man the moment he seen his gun after the guy got out after following him. Which would bring a whole nother slew of arguments into play. I think Spideys arguments would stay about the same though. Self defense, no witness! *paste law 100x*


Ok, Mr Knowitall, please provide the evidence that proves Mr Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. Please explain why the prosecutor has said they don't have enough evidence to charge Mr Zimmerman with manslaughter.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
If it gets to trial, maybe the other "witness" can take the stand. just roll his casket up to the booth.

Sworn testimony? Zimmerman's phone call says it.

did you listen to the 911 recordings?

Yes and all several times making sure I didn'y miss something. Nowhere on those tapes did I hear Zimmerman say he was going to track down Trayvon.

Unless something changes (new evidence or testimony) this will not go to trial. The prosecutor has to have something to charge Mr Zimmerman with in order to go to trial. Again the law is very clear that unless you can refute Mr Zimmerman's claim of self defense, he has immunity from criminal prosecution and civil actions.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,221
18,686
146
Yes and all several times making sure I didn'y miss something. Nowhere on those tapes did I hear Zimmerman say he was going to track down Trayvon.

Unless something changes (new evidence or testimony) this will not go to trial. The prosecutor has to have something to charge Mr Zimmerman with in order to go to trial. Again the law is very clear that unless you can refute Mr Zimmerman's claim of self defense, he has immunity from criminal prosecution and civil actions.

911 dispatcher: Are you following the suspect?
Zimmerman: yes
911 dispatcher: We don't need you to do that.

He didn't stop, apparently.

edit: He'll never have immunity from street justice, just sayin'.
 
Last edited:

RedString

Senior member
Feb 24, 2011
299
0
0
Ok, Mr Knowitall, please provide the evidence that proves Mr Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. Please explain why the prosecutor has said they don't have enough evidence to charge Mr Zimmerman with manslaughter.

No one is trying to say he didn't act in self defense, the question is - did Treyvon attack HIM in self defense? Is it possible to claim self defense after the person who is attacking you is doing so out of self defense?

I'm trying to get you to acknowledge that he got out on foot, after being told not to, followed an innocent person in between the buildings, and considering Zimmerman himself said the kid RAN away - how else would he have caught up to him? Did he find the kid sitting on the sidewalk taking a break?

I'm having trouble understanding how he caught up to this kid who he said 'ran away'. From the phone calls it didn't sound like Zimmerman was running while following Martin, at least not while he was on the phone.

I would like for a sound expert to get a recording of Zimmermans voice and an original duplicate of the 9/11 call with the yelling, then compare the two.

They can do this, can't they?
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,708
514
126
Yes and all several times making sure I didn'y miss something. Nowhere on those tapes did I hear Zimmerman say he was going to track down Trayvon.

The thing is Trayvon ran according to the 1st 911 call. Mr. Zimmerman said he took off running. Maybe Trayvon being unfamiliar needed to back track to get his bearings but if Trayvon Martin ran and then later had a confrontation with Mr. Zimmerman then it is a possibility that Mr. Zimmerman did chase him down. Although it could've been just a tragic happenstance that a lost Trayvon Martin bumped into Mr. Zimmerman then someone started the altercation.

Consider the first 911 call... the dispatcher asked are "you following him?" was told "yes" then said to Mr. Zimmerman "Okay, We don't need you to do that." It is a possibility that even if he didn't say "he was tracking him down" it may have been what he did, especially in the time after his call and when he found him. It's unknown but a distinct possibility.

Personally I think that this really illustrates that the laws regarding self-defense went too far and made it too easy to claim such in events like this.
 
Last edited:

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Unless evidence shows otherwise the law protects you. Police need probable cause so even a shred of evidence you didn't act in self defense and you're getting arrested.

The law has been posted and explained some 4 dozen times now. Remember that if you attack somebody. They may kill you.

But according to Fla law, who was attacking who? Who was the agressor? It was Martin who was chased. It was Martin who was then again approached by a complete stranger. It was Martin who according to law had the right to then defend himself after being chased and then stalked.

All the assumptions and accusations made by Zimmerman are irrelevant. The kid broke no laws and had no weapons. Zimmerman harrassed a total stranger. And there has been zero proof that any of his assumptions were correct.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
No one is trying to say he didn't act in self defense, the question is - did Treyvon attack HIM in self defense? Is it possible to claim self defense after the person who is attacking you is doing so out of self defense?

I'm trying to get you to acknowledge that he got out on foot, after being told not to, followed an innocent person in between the buildings, and considering Zimmerman himself said the kid RAN away - how else would he have caught up to him? Did he find the kid sitting on the sidewalk taking a break?

I'm having trouble understanding how he caught up to this kid who he said 'ran away'. From the phone calls it didn't sound like Zimmerman was running while following Martin, at least not while he was on the phone.

I would like for a sound expert to get a recording of Zimmermans voice and an original duplicate of the 9/11 call with the yelling, then compare the two.

They can do this, can't they?

They may have had a sound analyst analyze the voice. At this no one knows all the evidence the police have.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
The thing is Trayvon ran according to the 1st 911 call. Mr. Zimmerman said he took off running. Maybe Trayvon being unfamiliar needed to back track to get his bearings but if Trayvon Martin ran and then later had a confrontation with Mr. Zimmerman then it is a possibility that Mr. Zimmerman did chase him down. Although it could've been just a tragic happenstance that a lost Trayvon Martin bumped into Mr. Zimmerman then someone started the altercation.

Consider the first 911 call... the dispatcher asked are "you following him?" was told "yes" then said to Mr. Zimmerman "Okay, We don't need you to do that." It is a possibility that even if he didn't say "he was tracking him down" it may have been what he did, especially in the time after his call and when he found him. It's unknown but a distinct possibility.

Personally I think that this really illustrates that the laws regarding self-defense went too far and made it too easy to claim such in events like this.

I agree the laws need to be reviewed and this case be the catalyst to get it reviewed. However at this time the must be applied as currently written.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
No is not. Police and evidence say T was the aggressor

Evidence that he chased him? This is the story many are imagining in their head.

What, are you incapable of listening to the 911 tapes? Especially the one where Zimmerman said Martin was running? Nowhere in the tape does it say that Martin at any point initiated contact with Zimmerman.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
But according to Fla law, who was attacking who? Who was the agressor? It was Martin who was chased. It was Martin who was then again approached by a complete stranger. It was Martin who according to law had the right to then defend himself after being chased and then stalked.

All the assumptions and accusations made by Zimmerman are irrelevant. The kid broke no laws and had no weapons. Zimmerman harrassed a total stranger. And there has been zero proof that any of his assumptions were correct.

Stop saying "chased". This is the consistent story folks have in their head that is NOT supported by evidence. Media is just fueling your confirmation bias.

Zimmerman was trying to keep an eye on him, then Martin came up and said "what's your problem" and then viciously attacked him like when Zimmerman asked who he was visiting or where he lived or whatever WORDS were exchanged. Martin felt he was disrespected and a vicious beatdown was his choice to that disrespect. The kid broke the law when he performed felony assault placing zimmerman in fear of his life.

Martin's choice to visciously attack another lead to him getting shot. Police, evidence, testimony state Martin was the aggressor.

Until folks have something else (and if you do, contact that police department, they want your evidence), those are the current facts.
 
Last edited:

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
What, are you incapable of listening to the 911 tapes? Especially the one where Zimmerman said Martin was running? Nowhere in the tape does it say that Martin at any point initiated contact with Zimmerman.

Police, evidence, eye witness testimony show T was the aggressor. I ask for your evidence that he wasn't.