Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
The constitution is just a set of laws. It is not sacred in any way or form. I liken it to an operating system.

The truth is that in this modern world, with a such a large police presence as well as non-lethal weaponry available, no person truly needs a gun outside of a few high risk occupations (store keeper in inner city, business owner making payroll runs)

wat?
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Nope. Just your interpretation. The same thing with the laws that you're using to back your interpretation. Hopefully, other authorities will have the opportunity to review the case. B/c we already know that the Sanford Police have lied about the case.

Seeing you seem to know so much please point out the facts that could be gathered from the 911 tapes that I missed or interpreted incorrectly.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Sure there are kids capable of inflicting fatal wounds, but that's for Zimmerman to prove.

Let's say I or anyone get caught with a gun in my hand and in front of me a death kid, dead women, dead old person who in general don't post any serious threat to me. Do I utter the word self defense and I get to go free, or does it only apply to when the dead person is black or minority?

Unless evidence shows otherwise the law protects you. Police need probable cause so even a shred of evidence you didn't act in self defense and you're getting arrested.

The law has been posted and explained some 4 dozen times now. Remember that if you attack somebody. They may kill you.
 
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rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Unless evidence shows otherwise the law protects you. Police need probable cause so even a shred of evidence you didn't act in self defense and you're getting arrested.

The law has been posted and explained some 4 dozen times now. Remember that if you attack somebody. They may kill you.

4 dozen times and you people still can't answer the proportional and reasonable response. You attack people with toothpicks doesn't give that other person the right to shoot you in the head, especially when it's that other person who initiated the confrontation.

You are either to stupid or racist to think the self defense law is that black and white.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
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4 dozen times and you people still can't answer the proportional and reasonable response. You attack people with toothpicks doesn't give that other person the right to shoot you in the head, especially when it's that other person who initiated the confrontation.

You are either to stupid or racist to think the self defense law is that black and white.

and when police corruption is involved in an attempt to cover for Z we must resort to circumstantial evidence and Federal authorities to resolve.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
4 dozen times and you people still can't answer the proportional and reasonable response. You attack people with toothpicks doesn't give that other person the right to shoot you in the head, especially when it's that other person who initiated the confrontation.

You are either to stupid or racist to think the self defense law is that black and white.

nice baited thread. Weren't you defending 'they' must mean black people earlier?
 

CptObvious

Platinum Member
Mar 5, 2004
2,501
7
81
I grew up in Sanford and lived there for 18 years. I'll just say that I'm not surprised by how the Sanford PD handled this case.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
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....According to Fla stand your ground law, Martin is the one in legal right, not Zimmerman.

Not according the the Z fans here, he was completly in the right and had every right to do what he did...

IMO, Zimmerman lost any credibility by his own words and false descriptions of Martin. The only thing he got right was that he was black and it was raining...


"This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs on something ... it's raining and he's just walking around looking about..."

Really? Walking home down a sidewalk in the rain means you are on drugs? Why is Zimmerman lying and trying to convince the dispatcher Martin is on drugs and up to no good?


"He's just staring... looking at all the houses"

Really? Now he's casing out the houses, too? I knew Skittles made you taste the rainbow but they make you high and a home invader to boot?


"Now he's just staring at me"

Yeah, some innocent kid is trying to get home to watch the rest of the All Star Game and some asshole is following him in a car.


"Now he's coming towards me, he has his in his waist band and he's a black male"

...pauses relaxed, continues to answer questions and give description of black guy coming at him with a what he is trying to paint as a gun in his waistband... even though Zimmerman himself is armed, he doesn't feel threatened enough to pull it and defend himself on the spot and engage, he just continues to give description of menacing kid with gun hmm... oh and did I mention, the guy is black? Yeah, we got that already Mr. Zimmerman.


"Something's wrong with him, yep, he's coming to check me out, he's something in his hand, I don't know what his deal is, can you get an officer over here, these assholes always get away..."

Wow, this guy sounded like he was getting ready for a gun fight right there no? Weapon drawn ready to defend himself against this armed hooded black thug but wait... now he's running away!!!!???

What kind of gun fight is this? Better run after him and get down to the bottom of this...


Zimmerman... enjoy your time in jail. RIP poor kid just trying to get home. To those who still try and paint this kid as the attacker and Zimmerman as the victim, go fuck yourselves.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Not according the the Z fans here, he was completly in the right and had every right to do what he did...

IMO, Zimmerman lost any credibility by his own words and false descriptions of Martin. The only thing he got right was that he was black and it was raining...


"This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs on something ... it's raining and he's just walking around looking about..."

Really? Walking home down a sidewalk in the rain means you are on drugs? Why is Zimmerman lying and trying to convince the dispatcher Martin is on drugs and up to no good?


"He's just staring... looking at all the houses"

Really? Now he's casing out the houses, too? I knew Skittles made you taste the rainbow but they make you high and a home invader to boot?


"Now he's just staring at me"

Yeah, some innocent kid is trying to get home to watch the rest of the All Star Game and some asshole is following him in a car.


"Now he's coming towards me, he has his in his waist band and he's a black male"

...pauses relaxed, continues to answer questions and give description of black guy coming at him with a what he is trying to paint as a gun in his waistband... even though Zimmerman himself is armed, he doesn't feel threatened enough to pull it and defend himself on the spot and engage, he just continues to give description of menacing kid with gun hmm... oh and did I mention, the guy is black? Yeah, we got that already Mr. Zimmerman.


"Something's wrong with him, yep, he's coming to check me out, he's something in his hand, I don't know what his deal is, can you get an officer over here, these assholes always get away..."

Wow, this guy sounded like he was getting ready for a gun fight right there no? Weapon drawn ready to defend himself against this armed hooded black thug but wait... now he's running away!!!!???

What kind of gun fight is this? Better run after him and get down to the bottom of this...


Zimmerman... enjoy your time in jail. RIP poor kid just trying to get home.

your mind works in funny ways.

where do you live?
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
So why is T not allowed the same??

He is allowed the same. The problem is in this case you have no eye witnesses to the incident so you have to rely on evidence and testimony. Right now there's too much hearsay being reported to know what truly transpired.

I've never said that was happy with the law but the way it's written it protects Mr Zimmerman until you can refute his story and prove he's lying. If the reports from the police department is correct that the evidence and sworn testimony corroborates some of Mr Zimmerman's story it will be difficult at best to charge him with murder or manslaughter.

We will know shortly as the DoJ, FBI, and Florida Dept of Law Enforcement will be reviewing the case. If they can't find any irregularities with the investigation, evidence, or sworn testimony there will be no grounds to charge Mr Zimmerman.
 

RedString

Senior member
Feb 24, 2011
299
0
0
The douchebaggery in this thread is astounding.

Anyone know if anything has been released about any wounds to Martin?

Also, I've read Zimmerman had a busted nose, but I keep seeing some of you cite that he was in grave danger. Can anyone post any links showing he got more than just a shot to the nose?


After listening to the tapes - it seems like whoever it is with the flashlights showed up extremely fast, pretty much immediately following the shot. Does anyone know that this is definitely cops? Because the last clip I just listened to the dispach said they had officer heading that way, but didn't say any was there. (Clip was guy who seen them wrestling behind his back porch.)
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,037
2,615
136
I still can't believe there is no prosecution here. If he is innocent a jury will find him innocent. it is not up to the police to determine such things. They are clearly protecting him.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
136
He is allowed the same. The problem is in this case you have no eye witnesses to the incident so you have to rely on evidence and testimony. Right now there's too much hearsay being reported to know what truly transpired.

I've never said that was happy with the law but the way it's written it protects Mr Zimmerman until you can refute his story and prove he's lying. If the reports from the police department is correct that the evidence and sworn testimony corroborates some of Mr Zimmerman's story it will be difficult at best to charge him with murder or manslaughter.

We will know shortly as the DoJ, FBI, and Florida Dept of Law Enforcement will be reviewing the case. If they can't find any irregularities with the investigation, evidence, or sworn testimony there will be no grounds to charge Mr Zimmerman.

The SPD has already tampered with Z's testimony and some of the witnesses. Going to make it mode difficult for the Feds.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
this is beyond ridiculous at this point

Alky keeps pointing out that the kid 'was pretending to pull a gun out' - which is a bunch of bullshit - he was walking, with at least 3 things that could have been in his pocket - skittles, a drink, and some sort of music player - also, it's quite possible he had baggy pants on, and was simply holding them up.

There is nothing that says he was pretending to have a gun in his possession - nothing - all Zimmerman said is that there is something in his waistband.

If Zimmerman really thought this kid had gun - would he have done nothing when mentioning it to the 911 caller? Would he have been such a tough -guy in pursing this kid if the really thought the kid had a gun?

Spidey - you keep saying Martin attacked Zimmerman - how can you even think that at this point given what we know, for a fact? Zimmerman himself says the kid ran from him - that takes the whole 'it was self defense' issue completely off the table. While it does appear there was a physical struggle at some point - it didn't happen in Zimmerman's car, which would have been the only time/place that 'self defense' would have been a justifiable situation.

He got out of his car and chased the kid. He lost sight of the kid. He continued to look for the kid - at this point he is the aggressor, not the kid. Any altercation that takes place after this, it's the kid who can claim self-defense.

Picking a fight out, and then possibly getting your ass kicked, doesn't give you the right to shoot the guy you picked a fight with.

Zimmerman is at least guilty of manslaughter, period. It's really not up for debate. Why the police didn't act on this faster is really beyond me, and I'm going to guess we see some sort of investigation into all of the officers involved.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I still can't believe there is no prosecution here. If he is innocent a jury will find him innocent. it is not up to the police to determine such things. They are clearly protecting him.

Do you have any evidence or testimony that disproves his claim of self-defense? Based on Florida law he has immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action, this includes being detained or arrested/charged. No charge or arrest = no jury trial.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
136
Do you have proof that the Police department tampered with the testimony or is this just hearsay that's being repeated by the media?

One of the witnesses already stated the police coorced her in to changing her statement from the cries were coming from T to Z.

Also that narcotics detective that showed up to question Z did not ask for his story of what happened he asked a few specific questions. That is leading the witness, ensuring Z's answers bolster his claim of self defense.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
136
I have a solution.

Some people here have callousily stated Treyvon can't claim self defense because he is dead. There is circumstantial evidence Z's self defense claim is bogus and T deserves the claim.

Why not waterboard Zimmerman? There are enough people who have already claimed waterboarding is not torture so it doesn't violate his constitutional rights. We've been told enhanced interrogation is an effective method of intelligence gathering. Zimmerman is a big pussy. If he's lying it will come out.

A little tongue in cheek but maybe not.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
One of the witnesses already stated the police coorced her in to changing her statement from the cries were coming from T to Z.

Also that narcotics detective that showed up to question Z did not ask for his story of what happened he asked a few specific questions. That is leading the witness, ensuring Z's answers bolster his claim of self defense.

Let the witness provide sworn testimony to that fact to the state and let them deal with it.

I've seen detectives pepper a suspect with questions in an attempt to see if they change their story. I suspect that anyone that reviews the case will not find that odd as the person is a police detective first.

I also suspect that when Mr Zimmerman was interviewed the two additional times he was observed by a psychologist who was watching his body language to see his level of comfort when providing answers to the police questions..