Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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kyp275

Member
Jul 21, 2003
75
0
0
problem was others have gotten away in the past.

it sucks, but it still doesn't make Zimmerman into a qualified individual to deal with the issue.

I'd have followed after the kid if he ran. However, Zimmerman should have identified himself to the kid as soon as he saw him.

neither you nor Zimmerman is a trained LEO, you guys have no business conducting armed pursuits of any kind when you're working from nothing more than your own suspicion. Doing so can only lead to bad things for either you or the one being chased.

Case in point, if someone starts to tail me in the street, and then starts to chase after me once I tried to put some distance between us, guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna draw my weapon, which means he will also likely draws his weapon, at which point lead is gonna start flying downrange. Remember, just because you think you're the good guy doesn't mean other people will see it that way, which is why you shouldn't be a mall ninja and play cop when you're not.

I don't have any doubt the kid pretended to go for a 'gun' in his waistband. That's the move all the little kids here do when they know you see them doing shit.

great, and is completely irrelevant to this specific incident


I don't agree with people being totally passive, however; they shouldn't be going around shooting people either out of fear.

exactly, you need to be aware of what you should, and CAN do, doubly so when you're armed. And so far everything tells me Zimmerman had little clue to either.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
a few final thoughts

Zimmerman has to be guilty of, at the very least, manslaughter

As for anyone saying "but but he's not white" - including his father, does that mean that different races can't be racist towards each other, it's only defined as black vs. white? Simple minds, simple concepts.

That reporter who made the 'chicken' comment should be fired

Alky - I'm sorry your house was broken into and things were stolen - I know how that can fill someone with rage - but you have issues, making comments like "I don't have any doubt the kid pretended to go for a 'gun' in his waistband. That's the move all the little kids here do when they know you see them doing shit. " - that put's you on a level with the Zimmerman's of the world, and I don't think you want to be there.

zimmerman recited that in the 911 tape. I am not in any rage. It makes you look much more realistically at the stuff.
 

kyp275

Member
Jul 21, 2003
75
0
0
it was mentioned in the 911 tapes now. I 'guessed' correctly since I have been posting here.

I was referring to how your own experience has little relevance on this particular incident. As far as the 911 recording goes, IIRC Zimmerman was saying something along the lines of "he's got something in his waistband", which only serves to further illustrate the sheer incompetence of Zimmerman to me.

If you suspect a BG is armed, the last thing you want to do is to chase after them ON FOOT with no back up when you're already in a vehicle. Tail them from your vehicle if you must, but chasing after the guy whom you suspect is armed and then get into melee distance (which they obviously did as a fight did occur) is just mind boggling stupid to me.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
LOL

Obama will win Florida again with no problems. And sadly in your small minded self, you actually think hispanics will back a man who killed a 17 year old kid. You nothing about hispanics, guy. We now know the woman was telling the truth when she said she knew it was the kid who was crying out.

I lived in Miami for a number of years. It was a while ago, and if I understand correctly this town is close to Orlando, not Miami. But in Miami we had several (famously) violent riots due to tensions between Black residents and Hispanic law enforcement. And when those riots happened, which were contained within a Black neighborhood, non-police Hispanics were arrested for driving through discharging firearms.

Unless something has changed, or it's been isolated to Miami, there is a lot animosity between these two groups.

That these police sounds Hispanic too tells me they really need to get other LE agencies involved if only for the problems of 'perception'.

I'm not saying all Hispanics are racists, but these two groups did, and may still, have tensions.

Edit: This is one time I wish my PC had audio. I can't hear the tapes etc. so am not sure what is going on.

Fern
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
I was referring to how your own experience has little relevance on this particular incident. As far as the 911 recording goes, IIRC Zimmerman was saying something along the lines of "he's got something in his waistband", which only serves to further illustrate the sheer incompetence of Zimmerman to me.

If you suspect a BG is armed, the last thing you want to do is to chase after them ON FOOT with no back up when you're already in a vehicle. Tail them from your vehicle if you must, but chasing after the guy whom you suspect is armed and then get into melee distance (which they obviously did as a fight did occur) is just mind boggling stupid to me.

My experience is related since I am in S. Florida.

Zimmerman says "he is reaching into his waistband".

Zimmerman is a civilian, he has no backup...if we all waited around for the police a lot bad things would happen.

It was dangerous for him to do that yes.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
I lived in Miami for a number of years. It was a while ago, and if I understand correctly this town is close to Orlando, not Miami. But in Miami we had several (famously) violent riots due to tensions between Black residents and Hispanic law enforcement. And when those riots happened, which were contained within a Black neighborhood, non-police Hispanics were arrested for driving through discharging firearms.

Unless something has changed, or it's been isolated to Miami, there is a lot animosity between these two groups.

That these police sounds Hispanic too tells me they really need to get other LE agencies involved if only for the problems of 'perception'.

I'm not saying all Hispanics are racists, but these two groups did, and may still, have tensions.

Edit: This is one time I wish my PC had audio. I can't hear the tapes etc. so am not sure what is going on.

Fern

If you travel to Miami, or just read the news about South Beach (SoBe); you are more likely to see a hispanic/black couple than white/black.

But yeah, there are spanish vs black gangs down there as well.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,221
18,685
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yeah...very serious. Come to Florida, go up to a group of kids causing trouble and just observe. At least one of the dumbasses is going to pretend he is packing.

I am not saying that is an excuse to shoot someone, but it's a trend down here.

I have no idea what Martin was actually wearing. A hoodie can be just a sweatshirt with a hood and your entire face is exposed.

The style that is a problem is those that go down to their (I say their not as 'blacks' but as kids as a group here, and not ALL kids just a large group) mid thigh, hang at least 6" down around their faces and conceal their hands.

They usually wear slider pants and have one hand holding their pants up and the other stuffed in a pocket. They just sort of strut and look around a lot as if they are casing every car, house, item they see.

For the most part it's kids being 'kids', but playing a stupid game. For a few they are known criminals. Some of those I have called on have 'rap sheets they could make a book with' according to one cop. The problem is no one wants to make the penalties serious on 'children' so they end up back on the street 9 times out of 10 and get a few days of community service or some weekends at a juvie hall.

We have adults enlisting 12 and 13 year old shooters down here, they have them shoot to kill even if the victim cooperates.

To those above that only carry when carrying large amounts of money...that is pretty stupid. You either need your gun or not. A crook doesn't know if you have just pocket lint or a $25k roll in your pocket.

However, chances are if you have nothing to give them; they will think you are lying and beat your ass/shoot you.

I don't carry my Fox 5.3 everywhere...but anywhere I could be in danger it's with me. I am not quite ready to move to a firearm, but I am getting closer and closer each day.

I have had a few close calls where the spray has been enough and I was able to get some distance and make a phone call to the police. I am usually on foot in the middle of nowhere during really early morning hours or really late after hours...usually in the last to leave a job site and often in an area I am unfamiliar with.

Recently I ended up in Albany, Georgia. I had no idea it was one of the murder capitals of the country. I walk into a gas station and the whole place is more fortified than a bank. They have to scan your items through the glass...there wasn't even a drawer for them to slide back and forth and just a thin enough slot for a credit card or cash.

You are describing a problem that is not isolated to your area, and has been going on for a long time. My "LoL, are you serious" was directed at your apparent generalization of individuals particular choice of style.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,221
18,685
146
We had four burglaries on my block within a three month period. They took an estimated 3-4 hours to complete and probably involved multiple trips. All were done either ~9-noonish or 1-5ish. Broad daylight. My house was one of them.

Only one of those crimes were solved, that crime actually had the crook laughing at the video cameras with no attempt to conceal his identity. The problem was he stole two family heirlooms that were passed down for something like 300 years. The lady that owned them went nuts and basically drove in a big circle to every pawn shop/jewelry store in our area basically 24/7 looking for the guy or her jewelry. She ran into the guy at a pawn shop about 15 mins from here, called the police and they were able to catch him. They only recovered one of the pieces last I heard and she never recovered from the loss.

Luckily for her she wasn't home though, while the guy hadn't killed anyone they were able to connect him to over 15 strong armed robberies in the area where he mashed the victims with a pistol and/or a small baton he carried. Over half of them the police didn't know about until the victims came forward after hearing he was caught and linked to other similar crimes that happened to them.

I keep my eyes and ears open all the time now where ever I am at and I have been able to stop a few crimes by doing so. I try to avoid getting involved face to face, but if I am not sure what's going on I am going to at least try to ask rather than cause someone trouble...but that has backfired a few times as I have mentioned.

The real thing that pisses me off is after good calls where the police came and verified those asshats were doing something bad, there are always people in the crowd chastising me and/or the others involved from not minding our own business and 'getting' someone arrested. The cops told me one person witnessed a burglary here and did nothing, even though she watched it happen...however the kicker was she went on record, on a police statement with "I felt they deserved to be robbed because they were buying too much nice stuff" basically....like WTF?!

In the end there is no winner in the Martin/Zimmerman case. Nothing changes one person is dead...all we can hope for is the kid was either definitely a threat that needed to be at least shot (although you shoot to kill, as long as they are incapacitated the gun has done it's job) and if not Zimmerman is brought to justice.

Find a new neighborhood dude, for real.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
Zimmerman had reason to be paranoid given the rash of recent breakins, the bulk if not all committed by black males, but he was also an idiot in not being able to understand different situations. For instance, if the guy were suspicious, he should have known the "are you lost" inquiry would have a) covered an innocent who was lost (truth) and b) scare away any miscreants who would realize that there were people paying attention.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Good shoot

No duty to retreat

Ghetto Stump

Walking like a gangster

N****r

Yay me!


The racists came hard into this thread and let it all hang out. They are a disgrace to their communities.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Where are the Z fanbois that pushed this thread up past 2000? How completely pathetic they would abandon it now. As I stated earlier when... no integrity whatsoever.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Good shoot

No duty to retreat

Ghetto Stump

Walking like a gangster

N****r

Yay me!


The racists came hard into this thread and let it all hang out. They are a disgrace to their communities.

lol yeah. and we had that big thread on racism. hah
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
I (obviously) disagree with you on that.

Spidey07's statements are indefensible. I put him on ignore like 30 or 40 pages ago and I don't understand why the rest of you guys keep on tangling with him.

The rest make the case that Zimmerman was not a hateful bigot but rather a misguided citizen who was trying to do the right thing and ended up being wrong. Which is how most bad things happen in this world.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
My experience is related since I am in S. Florida.

Zimmerman says "he is reaching into his waistband".

Zimmerman is a civilian, he has no backup...if we all waited around for the police a lot bad things would happen.

It was dangerous for him to do that yes.

Wow. You're another Zimmerman. First, you're wrong and Zimmerman was able to identify that he was black. The kid ran away. So, if you thought he was packing, you would still chase after him like Zimmerman b/c you can't let another one of these axxholes get away.

Everything he said, you have recited in your own experiences. Hope you don't kill an innocent kid also.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Where are the Z fanbois that pushed this thread up past 2000? How completely pathetic they would abandon it now. As I stated earlier when... no integrity whatsoever.

I've yet to see anything that says not self defense.

It's tragic, stupidity on both sides,
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Spidey07's statements are indefensible. I put him on ignore like 30 or 40 pages ago and I don't understand why the rest of you guys keep on tangling with him.

The rest make the case that Zimmerman was not a hateful bigot but rather a misguided citizen who was trying to do the right thing and ended up being wrong. Which is how most bad things happen in this world.

Choosing to ignore him may be convenient but I rather confront this bigot. I may or may not change his mind but I get pleasure from agitating him. It bothered him enough to create a new thread with a confusing purpose.

As for Zimmerman, I don't give a fuck what was going on in his mind. His actions spoke clearly for all to see that he has serious issues and he does not deserve an atom of sympathy. Not one. He was a wild beast on the hunt that night and he got his kill. I wonder how he feels about that kill. If he feels the same way you feel about him then he probably sees himself as a victim in this, of which he is not. He's a murderer and deserves to be punished accordingly.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
Choosing to ignore him may be convenient but I rather confront this bigot. I may or may not change his mind but I get pleasure from agitating him. It bothered him enough to create a new thread with a confusing purpose.

As for Zimmerman, I don't give a fuck what was going on in his mind. His actions spoke clearly for all to see that he has serious issues and he does not deserve an atom of sympathy. Not one. He was a wild beast on the hunt that night and he got his kill. I wonder how he feels about that kill. If he feels the same way you feel about him then he probably sees himself as a victim in this, of which he is not. He's a murderer and deserves to be punished accordingly.

No, the lesson to be learned is that any of us could end up like Zimmerman. Guilty of an innocent person's murder.

Especially the 2nd amendment gun rights people.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
I've yet to see anything that says not self defense.

It's tragic, stupidity on both sides,

Look at this, people. It's a racist going through changes. He went from calling this murder a good shoot to speculating that the teenager was completely at fault to speculating that Zimmerman would be compensated for his trouble to this new bullshit. Progress is progress, though:rolleyes:
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
No, the lesson to be learned is that any of us could end up like Zimmerman. Guilty of an innocent person's murder.

Especially the 2nd amendment gun rights people.

I disagree. Like I said in the beginning, this asshole felt 10' tall with that gun on him. He wanted this. He wanted to put this black teenager in his place. Anyone matured enough would think hard before they confront someone with a deadly weapon. I know I would. It's no toy.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
136
Choosing to ignore him may be convenient but I rather confront this bigot. I may or may not change his mind but I get pleasure from agitating him. It bothered him enough to create a new thread with a confusing purpose.

As for Zimmerman, I don't give a fuck what was going on in his mind. His actions spoke clearly for all to see that he has serious issues and he does not deserve an atom of sympathy. Not one. He was a wild beast on the hunt that night and he got his kill. I wonder how he feels about that kill. If he feels the same way you feel about him then he probably sees himself as a victim in this, of which he is not. He's a murderer and deserves to be punished accordingly.

Actually its more likely that Spidey was on the wrong side of a cuckold and the other guy was black, then Z's claim of self-defense.

It would explain a lot.