Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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Feb 10, 2000
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The NRA is a big reason why Zimmerman has not been arrested, since they likely lobbied for and even wrote the laws extending castle doctrine and granting prosecutorial immunity to people who claim self-defense.

Yes, I do blame the NRA for Zimmerman not being arrested, and for the general direction in which they have influenced gun legislation in this country.

Here is an article about the FL law from the time it was enacted. It references the NRA's involvement but doesn't talk about it in detail. http://writ.news.findlaw.com/sebok/20050502.html

Here is a 2010 article that details the NRA's involvement in the law, and the fact that it had led to an increase in legally justifiable homicides in the intervening five years. http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1128317.ece
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
106
ugh, just read an article about the 911 tape. definitely not something I want to listen to. disgusting, and insane the guy is still walking free
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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I dunno.

I am a gun owner but am ambivalent about the less restrictive concealed-carry laws that have become de rigeur in recent years, and this case is a good illustration of the reason why. Zimmerman seems like a well-meaning but paranoid guy. He was, in my view, overzealous, but seems to have been sincerely seeking to protect his community. He was obviously told by the police dispatcher that he didn't need to personally pursue Trayvon Martin, but he chose to. I can't help but think that if he hadn't been armed, he would have left this to the police, since it appears he is hardly a master of hand-to-hand combat. If he had just stayed in his car, Trayvon Martin would still be alive.

In general I have no problem with law-abiding people having guns, but this case illustrates what can flow from that - a relatively innocuous situation can turn deadly.

If the law placed the burden on Z to prove self-defense instead of taking him at his word, he would have thought twice about voluntarily putting himself in a position where he may need to use his gun, and it would have made him think twice about killing the kid. The laws that NRA works to pass encourage this sort of senseless killing.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
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This is the clip I posted about, good info.

No one has commented on the reporter's racist behavior I mentioned from it.

yeah i read about the reporter's response. i would love to find it to see if if its real or just BS. seems a little far fetched to me but hell anything is possible.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
I posted this last night but it appears the 911 call has been removed.

Trayvon Martin shooting: Screams, shots heard on 911 call

Anybody have another link with the 911 call? I'm guessing the call may have been removed b/c you do hear the slaying of the kid.

it's there on the 2nd page.

yeah you can hear one shot a young voice yelling and then another shot.


sounds like one (or two) at 22 seconds or so in and another at 41 seconds.
 
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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,708
513
126
Here is an article about the FL law from the time it was enacted. It references the NRA's involvement but doesn't talk about it in detail. http://writ.news.findlaw.com/sebok/20050502.html

Here is a 2010 article that details the NRA's involvement in the law, and the fact that it had led to an increase in legally justifiable homicides in the intervening five years. http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1128317.ece

Apparently the NRA is involved with ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Commission).

I find this disturbing because there have been allegations that some legislative elected officials have just taken proposed laws written by members of ALEC who are in business and just introduced it to their state's legislature without changing it.

one case is illustrated here.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/02/02/417488/florida-gop-alec-forget/
I didn't link it before because I wanted to find a report from an actual newspaper. Oddly enough I thought I found one or two however when I clicked on the link in the search results the page was no longer existent.


It seems to me that the way the laws are written in Florida the SPD's hands may very well have been tied. Unfortunately, the apparent lack of diligence in investigating Mr. Zimmerman's background and the assertions by some witnesses that they didn't follow up the initial interviews with any sense of urgency has raised questions about SPD's objectivity in their handling of this case.

I really hope that this law is looked at and repealed because it looks to me that if not for this lax standard regarding self-defense that Mr. Zimmerman would have been arrested and charged with some level of negligent manslaughter by now.
 
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peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
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According to new stories coming out, Zimmerman's father says that he and his son are Hispanic so they cant be racists. He emphasizes that they are Hispanics...I guess in his world only White-Protestant males with a background coming from North West Europe can be the only racists on Earth ?

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20120317/US.Neighborhood.Watch.Death/

"Zimmerman had called police to report a suspicious person walking through the gated community. He has said he shot the teen in self-defense. Zimmerman's father said in a letter to the Orlando Sentinel that his son, who is Hispanic, has been cruelly and unfairly portrayed in the media as a racist."


Also do Hispanics have a basic education in history ? It seems like most Hispanics dont realize that Hispanic is not a race but a cultural group, in FL there are all types of Hispanics. If Zimmerman could pass as a White guy [Spanish background or not] then he is most likely is just a White guy but with a Spanish background. The Spaniards who brought slaves to the Carribean and murdered Mexican Indians were White guys afterall to...But from Spain [guess this doesn't help my point in that any race can be racist but still].
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
I genuinely believe that Zimmerman is not a racist, but rather an idiot.

The problem IMO is that he was an idiot with a gun. Thanks to the general wave of pro-gun legislation driven by gun nuts.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I dunno.

I am a gun owner but am ambivalent about the less restrictive concealed-carry laws that have become de rigeur in recent years, and this case is a good illustration of the reason why. Zimmerman seems like a well-meaning but paranoid guy. He was, in my view, overzealous, but seems to have been sincerely seeking to protect his community. He was obviously told by the police dispatcher that he didn't need to personally pursue Trayvon Martin, but he chose to. I can't help but think that if he hadn't been armed, he would have left this to the police, since it appears he is hardly a master of hand-to-hand combat. If he had just stayed in his car, Trayvon Martin would still be alive.

In general I have no problem with law-abiding people having guns, but this case illustrates what can flow from that - a relatively innocuous situation can turn deadly.

Agree, had Z been unarmed I also don't believe he would have pursued Trayvon. From all I can see the only reason Z in not in jail is due to poorly written law.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
yeah i read about the reporter's response. i would love to find it to see if if its real or just BS. seems a little far fetched to me but hell anything is possible.

Just watch the video. I linked a short clip on page 80.
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
It seems to me that the way the laws are written in Florida the SPD's hands may very well have been tied. Unfortunately, the apparent lack of diligence in investigating Mr. Zimmerman's background and the assertions by some witnesses that they didn't follow up the initial interviews with any sense of urgency has raised questions about SPD's objectivity in their handling of this case.

I really hope that this law is looked at and repealed because it looks to me that if not for this lax standard regarding self-defense that Mr. Zimmerman would have been arrested and charged with some level of negligent manslaughter by now.

I would hope that many gun owners as well as other citizens in Florida will write their representatives and request that the current gun law be modified to not protect someone that provokes the incident and then claim self-defense after losing control of the situation.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
According to new stories coming out, Zimmerman's father says that he and his son are Hispanic so they cant be racists. He emphasizes that they are Hispanics...I guess in his world only White-Protestant males with a background coming from North West Europe can be the only racists on Earth ?

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20120317/US.Neighborhood.Watch.Death/

"Zimmerman had called police to report a suspicious person walking through the gated community. He has said he shot the teen in self-defense. Zimmerman's father said in a letter to the Orlando Sentinel that his son, who is Hispanic, has been cruelly and unfairly portrayed in the media as a racist."


Also do Hispanics have a basic education in history ? It seems like most Hispanics dont realize that Hispanic is not a race but a cultural group, in FL there are all types of Hispanics. If Zimmerman could pass as a White guy [Spanish background or not] then he is most likely is just a White guy but with a Spanish background. The Spaniards who brought slaves to the Carribean and murdered Mexican Indians were White guys afterall to...But from Spain [guess this doesn't help my point in that any race can be racist but still].

Looking at his photo is clear he is in fact Hispanic and would not pass and a None Hispanic White, but that is besides the point. Anyone can be racist, racism isn't limited to one group of people or one race. The idea that only whites can be racist is ridiculous.
 

Icepick

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2004
3,663
4
81
The recording is chilling. My heart goes out to the family of the slain victim. What's truly unfortunate is that the entire episode could have been avoided. The boy was killed, not just due to an error in judgement by Zimmerman but, a series of multiple errors.

From profiling the man based on race,
Following him,
Attempting to forcibly detain him,
Not heeding the dispatcher's advice,
Assuming way too much authority as a self-appointed neighborhood watch volunteer,
Not waiting for the professionals to arrive and handle the situation.

You see, Zimmerman is guilty of several errors that led to a senseless death. For these reasons I believe he is wholly responsible and he must be brought to justice.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
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I genuinely believe that Zimmerman is not a racist, but rather an idiot.

The problem IMO is that he was an idiot with a gun. Thanks to the general wave of pro-gun legislation driven by gun nuts.

Yeah, I tend to agree. I don't see any reason to think he is a racist but his judgment is highly questionable to say the least.
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
Looking at his photo is clear he is in fact Hispanic and would not pass and a None Hispanic White, but that is besides the point. Anyone can be racist, racism isn't limited to one group of people or one race. The idea that only whites can be racist is ridiculous.

I have not seen his photo, no. The media has a very hard time playing the racism angle unless a perp is seen as White though, on first glance the name Zimmerman sounds White [or Jewish]. And im sure like most Hispanics his "Race" says he is White on his Birth certificate [alot of Black Hispanics have their race listed as White aswell], that is all the media needs to know to try and run with the "racism ball" and soak it for all its worth.

Im not surprised a pic is hard to come by, if the guy doesn't look White then much of the "racist" news frenzy will fall apart. Its not at all right but that is how it is in the US...White = Racist, non-white = not racist. Thats true in so many areas right now...5 black kids can beat a white kid to near death and its explained away as just "a random attack". If 5 white kids did the same to a black kid then it must be "a targeted case of racism". Only White people can be racist in the eyes of the media.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I have not seen his photo, no.

ErlJw.St.56.jpg
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
The police officer in charge of the case sounds Hispanic to me too. His last name is Ronado, though it is hard to say with just a last name.

Anyways, I couldn't bring my self to listen to the 911 tapes, because I would just get so mad anyways. Really hope his parents get their justice.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
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NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
a few final thoughts

Zimmerman has to be guilty of, at the very least, manslaughter

As for anyone saying "but but he's not white" - including his father, does that mean that different races can't be racist towards each other, it's only defined as black vs. white? Simple minds, simple concepts.

That reporter who made the 'chicken' comment should be fired

Alky - I'm sorry your house was broken into and things were stolen - I know how that can fill someone with rage - but you have issues, making comments like "I don't have any doubt the kid pretended to go for a 'gun' in his waistband. That's the move all the little kids here do when they know you see them doing shit. " - that put's you on a level with the Zimmerman's of the world, and I don't think you want to be there.