Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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So you stroll CASUALLY while it's raining? Or do you move your ass a little faster to get the hell out of the rain?

It was stated a dozen or so pages ago...this was about 40 minutes after sunset

If its a decent walk yes. You aren't going to get less wet by walking faster.

Any more reasons for suspicious behavior? Maybe the color of the hoodie? Oh yeah those gang colors. Wait a minute Treyvon was thin, those people are automatically suspect.

Oh I know. The NBA All star game was on so all black people would have been home watching so that made Treyvon suspicious.

I'm sure other things will come to mind.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Parents of Slain Black Teen Want FBI Investigation

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/parents-slain-black-teen-fbi-investigation-15936993#.T2NyBflVu3w

Sgt. David Morgenstern says the department stands behind its investigation but welcomes another agency "to scrutinize and review" the case.

Hopefully the FBI, DoJ, and Florida Dept of Law Enforcement will review this case, this way if no issues are noted concerning the investigation no one will be able to say that the Sanford PD didn't perform a proper investigation.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
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That similar to OJ Simpson, a possibly guilty man walked free. But the justice system isn't perfect, it can't be since it's made of people and people aren't infallible.

I'll also add that a young teenager died needlessly if the shooter had any common sense at all.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
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I'm sure a Judge would issue a court injunction against this group right now that prevents them from being anywhere close to Zimmerman or his family. Then the police would have no reason not to take said people into custody for violating the injunction.

They certainly have no lawful authority to arrest Zimmerman. I'd be surprised to see them try, though one never knows. I don't doubt they are sincerely upset (I know I find this case upsetting), but I also don't doubt they hold the misguided view that this is an opportunity for publicity.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
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So anyone living in FL know what the daylight conditions in Florida likely were at the time of the shooting?

The article says that the shooting occurred around sunset and where I live there is definitely a period of good ambient light for about 20 minutes after sunset.

Mr. Zimmerman could have gotten a glimpse of Trayvon Martin's hands even if he was wearing a hoodie and made the determination of race that way.

I stated it. At 7:30 it was dark in s. florida.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,708
513
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What are you going to say when these two Law enforcement agencies find nothing wrong with the Sanford PD findings?

I don't know what he would say but I'd say that given that at least one former law enforcement officer deems it unwise to carry while you're performing your neighborhood watch duties. And a person involved in what is at the very least an unfortunate tragedy that could have been avoided was doing just that. There might be a push for new laws about it.

below quote from this source http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...314_1_orlando-police-block-captains-zimmerman
the bolding is mine.

Zimmerman was armed. He was alone. And while waiting for police, he somehow got into a fight with the person he thought suspicious.

All three of those actions are strongly discouraged by the National Sheriffs' Association, which oversees about 20,000 Neighborhood Watch programs.

There are practical reasons for those rules.

And this absolutely heart-wrenching one: A family of a teenager is now coping with a death that probably could have been avoided.

"There is no reason in the world to carry a gun for Neighborhood Watch," said Chris Tutko, a retired police chief who now directs Neighborhood Watch for the sheriffs' association. "It gets people more into trouble than out of it."

A manual published by the association for its "USAonWatch" program makes that very clear.

"It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles," the manual states. "Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous."

Does this mean that Mr. Zimmerman was legally bound by such regulations? I'm not saying that. I'm saying that he acted in a way that at least some people with law enforcement career experience say is unwise.

Given that I'd expect that regardless of the outcome of the investigation there might be some real push to question the castle laws and to perhaps enact a law that prevents an armed person on Neighborhood watch from approaching someone who isn't clearly committing a crime.

Furthermore maybe at least one poster on this board might be opposed to that.

I didn't really think about it until I read this part of Zinfamous' post...
How about we jsut refer to him as what he is: a parnoid and irresponsible loser that will soon become the poster child for more rabid anti-gun laws.

And I know this is what you truly fear, and this is why you are so passionate about this story. You and I both see what this means, and it scares you shitless.
...but when you consider that spidey07 parroted "no duty to retreat' several times in several posts (at least) throughout this thread. I'm beginning to think that zinfamous is right.

I'm really disturbed by that.

I enjoy shooting myself but when seem to be more concerned about the possibility of a tightening of gun laws than you are with the fact that a tragedy that could have been easily avoided occurred I begin question your level of empathy.
 
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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
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But once Z approached him race/gender was confirmed. Z then called the police to report suspicious behavior.

So what was the suspicious behavior? Assuming he identified the person after initial approach as a cute white chick, phone call to police never happens and Zimmerman moves on maybe after hitting on her.

not necessarily. The car break-in I witnessed and identified involved a cute white chick and a black dude.

On your assumptions I would have let her slide and tried hitting on her while he got carted away?
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
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When ever I call police to report something the first thing they ask is "what race and size"

Exactly: race, height/weight/hair color/length and age.

Then any interesting marks/tattoos?

Funny how the news has people thinking race being mentioned = racist.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,708
513
126
I stated it. At 7:30 it was dark in s. florida.

Mr. Zimmerman could also have seen Trayvon Martin's hands with his vehicle headlights...
too little information to say one way or another.

One more reason to want to know what is on the tapes given possible reveals by people who could have heard them.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
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londojowo.hypermart.net
They had a drug officer interview a possible homicide suspect, there's incompetence right there.

Based on Police Chief Lee he was interviewed/questioned 3 times. Must no have been any inconsistencies in his testimony. I'm sure the 2nd and 3rd interviews/questionings were taped and can be reviewed. Just as all the witness interviews will be documented. The physical evidence will also be available for review.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
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81
Mr. Zimmerman could also have seen Trayvon Martin's hands with his vehicle headlights...
too little information to say one way or another.

One more reason to want to know what is on the tapes given possible reveals by people who could have heard them.

Do we know he was looking for black people? Were the previous criminals that got away black as well?

That hasn't been mentioned yet.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
I don't know what he would say but I'd say that given that at least one former law enforcement officer deems it unwise to carry while you're performing your neighborhood watch duties. And a person involved in what is at the very least an unfortunate tragedy that could have been avoided was doing just that. There might be a push for new laws about it.

below quote from this source http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...314_1_orlando-police-block-captains-zimmerman
the bolding is mine.



Does this mean that Mr. Zimmerman was legally bound by such regulations? I'm not saying that. I'm saying that he acted in a way that at least some people with law enforcement career experience say is unwise.

All we need is more gun grabbing. No police officer and most security officers would not patrol unarmed. The police really don't like people having guns so it's a biased concern.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I don't know what he would say but I'd say that given that at least one former law enforcement officer deems it unwise to carry while you're performing your neighborhood watch duties. And a person involved in what is at the very least an unfortunate tragedy that could have been avoided was doing just that. There might be a push for new laws about it.

below quote from this source http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...314_1_orlando-police-block-captains-zimmerman
the bolding is mine.



Does this mean that Mr. Zimmerman was legally bound by such regulations? I'm not saying that. I'm saying that he acted in a way that at least some people with law enforcement career experience say is unwise.

Given that I'd expect that regardless of the outcome of the investigation there might be some real push to question the castle laws and to perhaps enact a law that prevents an armed person on Neighborhood watch from approaching someone who isn't clearly committing a crime.

Furthermore maybe at least one poster on this board might be opposed to that.

I didn't really think about it until I read this part of Zinfamous' post...

...but when you consider that spidey07 parroted "no duty to retreat' several times in several posts (at least) throughout this thread. I'm beginning to think that zinfamous is right.

I'm really disturbed by that.

I enjoy shooting myself but when seem to be more concerned about the possibility of a tightening of gun laws than you are with the fact that a tragedy that could have been easily avoided occurred I begin question your level of empathy.

Okay, what does any of this have to do with the case at hand? Can any of this be considered when reviewing the evidence and testimony?

The police must review the evidence/testimony and follow/apply the law as it written...period.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
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Based on Police Chief Lee he was interviewed/questioned 3 times. Must no have been any inconsistencies in his testimony. I'm sure the 2nd and 3rd interviews/questionings were taped and can be reviewed. Just as all the witness interviews will be documented. The physical evidence will also be available for review.



The initial questioning was done by a drug officer who was asking all kinds of questions instead of letting Z simply tell his side of the incident. It's possible he "helped" Z in his story of self defense. No way to be sure since it wasn't recorded at the scene.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/parents-slain-black-teen-fbi-investigation-15936993#.T2NyBflVu3w



Hopefully the FBI, DoJ, and Florida Dept of Law Enforcement will review this case, this way if no issues are noted concerning the investigation no one will be able to say that the Sanford PD didn't perform a proper investigation.

Very interesting choice of words..."slain teen". Nope, they're not trying to incite mob vengeance at all. The media has been going ape shit trying to turn this into a racial thing, and it's apparent in this very thread that folks are gobbling it up.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
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Found another picture of him on a funky site...looks like a more recent photo possibly from facebook but I can guess why it isn't circulated like his other ones are...might be the same hoodie too
timthumb.php
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
The initial questioning was done by a drug officer who was asking all kinds of questions instead of letting Z simply tell his side of the incident. It's possible he "helped" Z in his story of self defense. No way to be sure since it wasn't recorded at the scene.

Were you there? How do you know what was asked? How do you know that the interview wasn't documented?
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
The initial questioning was done by a drug officer who was asking all kinds of questions instead of letting Z simply tell his side of the incident. It's possible he "helped" Z in his story of self defense. No way to be sure since it wasn't recorded at the scene.
Possibly...so he did a thorough enough job of coaching him that he was able to maintain those exact details in his mind to give testimony multiple times over several days at least...maybe the initial time but for him to be able to keep it straight for days is harder than some might claim
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Very interesting choice of words..."slain teen". Nope, they're not trying to incite mob vengeance at all. The media has been going ape shit trying to turn this into a racial thing, and it's apparent in this very thread that folks are gobbling it up.

What would you propose calling him? He was a teen and he was slain. I know you'd prefer "vanquished thug," or words to that effect, but there is no evidence to support any such thing.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,402
5,386
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All we need is more gun grabbing. No police officer and most security officers would not patrol unarmed. The police really don't like people having guns so it's a biased concern.
Not really. It is simple, have all the guns you want but leave them at home on a neighborhood watch. They want you to watch and report. Just being out there in sight prevents a huge number of problems. People behave much differently when they are being observed. On the whole it is a huge success.
For a law enforcement officer, it is quite simple. Anybody they encounter with a gun can make their wife a widow. Good guy, bad guy, all it takes is an accident. I have no beef with concealed carry. I do see their point completely. They do not want some neighborhood watch guy to get emboldened by this firearm, and do something that he would not do if he did not have it. He could get himself, people nearby, or a responding officer injured or killed.
There is no real upside to it as far as law enforcement is concerned.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
136
Exactly: race, height/weight/hair color/length and age.

Then any interesting marks/tattoos?

Funny how the news has people thinking race being mentioned = racist.

Those descriptors are ok if describing someone doing something actually suspicious.

Those descriptors alone don't mean suspicion.

"black man peeking into window of house"...OK
"black man walking down the street must be up to something"....racist