Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[QueBert]

Errr, isn't there a report saying Martin WENT FOR THE GUN? If this is true, at that point there becomes a VERY reasonable fear for his life right then and there.

That's Georgie's story any ways, but pardon me if I'm not a believer. A dude who just shot someone will say anything to save their ass. A few minutes prior he was on the phone with 911 calling Trayvon an asshole who he wasn't going to let get away. That to me sounds like an angry person, and an angry person with a gun's never a good thing imho. But we'll never know if this report's true as 1 side of a story's never proof of what happened or didn't.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I had posted one reply to someome who had brought it up, the on and on is my attempt at letting you know you dont determine what the thread is about or that only items of legal relevance are important, soem of us find value in things that ar enot directly related to the law in this case.

Had you accepted you dont determine what can be posted here, I would have had one or two repsonses on the topic, it was your constant insistance that YOU determine what has value in relation to the case/incident that led to my many responses.

By all means rattle on and on and on and on and on about something that will have no bearing on this case.

 

[Lithium381]

Is this a joke?



Now that I understand your deflective question, I think you need to re-read this thread as many have pointed out numerous holes in Zimmerman's story.

So you're assuming because he's hispanic i mean white, oops hispanic that he can't be trusted to tell the truth?

 

[RampantAndroid]

Ok let me try to explain to you like I would my 7 year old daughter.

By your posts you only care about this case as it relates directly with the law.

Not everyone views this case/incident in the same way as you.

You do not decide what the thread is about and you do not get to narrowly define the incident in simple context of the law.

Everyone who participates defines the thread content and some of those participants think had he followed the guildlines of his NW group the entire tragedy could have been avoided.

Hopefull that is clear enough I know my kids would understand it.

And as it has been pointed out, evidence is leaning towards Martin in fact initiating the confrontation, not Zimmerman. He went up to Zimmerman, when Zimmerman said "no", Martin punched, tackled and beat Zimmerman, and then supposedly reached for Zimmerman's gun. The fix for this problem, if in fact that is the order of events that occurred, is to grant Trayvon Martin a Darwin Award.

There can be NO DISCUSSION on how to prevent this from happening WITHOUT A PROPER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT HAPPENED. Which we do not have. We are guessing and extrapolating what happened; no more.

 

[TerryMathews]

Is this a joke?



Now that I understand your deflective question, I think you need to re-read this thread as many have pointed out numerous holes in Zimmerman's story.

Why would it be a joke? At this point, I think any sensible person has to admit there must be some truth. Someone would've charged GZ with a crime off there were a crime to be had.

 

[Dari]

So if you're so smart please show what relevance your argument on NW guidelines have on this case. The police and states attorney already said that GZ broke no laws by following TM. GZ wasn't in violation of any laws by carrying concealed as he had a valid Florida CHL. Ignoring a NW guideline is not against the law......end of story.

and you keep missing his point...

 

[Dari]

Why would it be a joke? At this point, I think any sensible person has to admit there must be some truth. Someone would've charged GZ with a crime off there were a crime to be had.

That has already been discussed ad nauseum as well. Please just try to read the damn thread instead of bringing up old topics...

 

[MH2007]

Personally, and having noticed this interesting piece of info myself, I have to say this is a major reason I believe Martin DID in fact turn around and confront Zimmerman, and why I believe Zimmerman's self defense claim.

I think it's possible Martin simply lingered in the area and when Zimmerman went through the cut through that Martin had just took he assumed Zimmerman was still following him when Zimmerman was just going back to his vehicle. Martin then confronted Zimmerman and the physical altercation took place almost immediately.

If you'll bear with me, this is where Zimmerman was most likely parked, just north of this address here just before the bend in the road to the right.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1220+...20+Twin+Trees+Ln,+Sanford,+Florida+32771&z=19


Zimmerman
(expletive) he's running.

Dispatcher
He's running? Which way is he running?

Note that at where Zimmerman is stopped he would lose sight of Martin almost immediately if he ran straight east but it would appear that he has turned towards the rear entrance. At this point he gets out of the car to see which way he is running, but note that this isn't until the dispatcher asks which way he is running

Zimmerman Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

Dispatcher
Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

Zimmerman
The back entrance…(expletive)(unclear)

Dispatcher
Are you following him?

Zimmerman
Yeah.

Dispatcher
Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman
Ok.

At this point you can hear Zimmerman's breathing gradually return to normal. If he jogged at average speed at this point he is possibly directly north of where the shooting eventually took place. He also possibly has just seen Martin turn right directly

Spoiler

east

(EDIT: northeast) of the housing unit which includes this address.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=2811+...eat+View+Cir,+Sanford,+Florida+32771&t=h&z=19

In my opinion Martin most likely lingers in the cut through directly south of that address. Note that the home of Brandy Green is one of the units south of the unit directly south of where he might be at this point.

In my opinion the mostly likely scenario immediate following this given Zimmerman's account as well as Martin's girlfriend's is that Zimmerman knocks on the doors of the housing unit north of where Martin is lingering, headed south. Martin doesn't see Zimmerman at this point so continues home slowly between the housing units towards Brandy Green's back porch. After Zimmerman has hung up with 911 he heads back to his vehicle taking the shortest route, which is through the cut throughs. When Martin sees Zimmerman where he was just lingering he assumes incorrectly that Zimmerman was still following him, prompting him to confront Zimmerman.

 

[Dari]

So you're assuming because he's hispanic i mean white, oops hispanic that he can't be trusted to tell the truth?

This post is stupid.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

and you keep missing his point...

And the point is? He didn't follow guidelines.


Which isn't against any law.

 

[Generator]

Now he is soliciting donations. Kill a black child become a hero for the right wing! Nice American Flag for background to, guess Zimmerman is running for a House seat. "Joe the Gunner!"

This piece of shit is going to fry in a chair.

 

[lotus503]

So if you're so smart please show what relevance your argument on NW guidelines have on this case. The police and states attorney already said that GZ broke no laws by following TM. GZ wasn't in violation of any laws by carrying concealed as he had a valid Florida CHL. Ignoring a NW guideline is not against the law......end of story.

I didnt state im so smart, I stated he didnt follow the NW guildlines, I also stated it doesnt apply to the law surrouding the case. but thats not all the thread is about as much as you would like it to be that way.

again you are trying to determine what holds value and merrit for everyone who participates in the thread by narrowly defining it can only be what is legally impacting. Despite me explaining this to you in serveral posts you are unwilling to accept that you do not define that.

Furthermore:

This case has had very little new information for a while now, it has had zero information that impacts the actual legality of the case.

a reasonable person that is simple only interested in the legality of the case would probablly not post until new legally relevant info is posted.

Yet your here day in and day out hanging around people speculating and posting their opinions.

the logical conclusion is you are just here to belittle that speculation and opinion by again reverting back to the narrow confines of legality in the case and telling people what is important and not important.

Its my opinion there were many judgement errors that led to the tragedy, some lie with Zimmerman and some with Martin, I am interested in discussing them all to avoid similar tragedies.

 

[TerryMathews]

That has already been discussed ad nauseum as well. Please just try to read the damn thread instead of bringing up old topics...

I have read the thread. And I could say the same to you Mister Iced Tea and skittles. That's so 10,000 posts ago. Please do try to keep up with the adults, son.

 

[lotus503]

And as it has been pointed out, evidence is leaning towards Martin in fact initiating the confrontation, not Zimmerman. He went up to Zimmerman, when Zimmerman said "no", Martin punched, tackled and beat Zimmerman, and then supposedly reached for Zimmerman's gun. The fix for this problem, if in fact that is the order of events that occurred, is to grant Trayvon Martin a Darwin Award.

There can be NO DISCUSSION on how to prevent this from happening WITHOUT A PROPER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT HAPPENED. Which we do not have. We are guessing and extrapolating what happened; no more.

We do know he didnt follow the guildlines for his NW group.

We do know martin was Shot

No evidence to date has refuted his self defensee claim.

Same thing I told Lando I will tell you, YOU do not get to decide what can be discussed.

because of the lack of new information in the case, its the perfect time to evaluate what we do know as factual and some of us can use that info to help ensure people dont do similarly stupid shit.

I for one dont want anyone in my NW group packign heat or following people. I am sure when they meet next it will be covered.

 

[Dari]

And the point is? He didn't follow guidelines.


Which isn't against any law.

That's the point you keep missing. His point is that this thread is more than just the law. He says you are trying to define it as such when others should be allowed to discuss other aspects of the case.

 

[lotus503]

I have read the thread. And I could say the same to you Mister Iced Tea and skittles. That's so 10,000 posts ago. Please do try to keep up with the adults, son.

People who are adults dont refer to other people as "son"

thats slang from 10 years ago and shows ignorance, sister.

 

[lotus503]

That's the point you keep missing. His point is that this thread is more than just the law. He says you are trying to define it as such when others should be allowed to discuss other aspects of the case.

At this point he is being purposfulyl obtuse, or he really is that ignorant, not sure which.

 

[Dari]

I have read the thread. And I could say the same to you Mister Iced Tea and skittles. That's so 10,000 posts ago. Please do try to keep up with the adults, son.

You could try to say the same about me but it (obviously) wouldn't apply. You claiming that Zimmerman's story is air-tight is pure bullshit.

 

[Darwin333]

The only time he "got off" was after killing the black teenager. You and spidey07 and alkeymst also "got off" when y'all read about it. Something similar probably happened when the Tulsa killings started.

However, Zimmerman will go to prison.

Why did you feel the need to include his race in your post? From what I have read it is fairly clear from Z's past that he isn't racist so why is M's race relevant to you?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

That's the point you keep missing. His point is that this thread is more than just the law. He says you are trying to define it as such when others should be allowed to discuss other aspects of the case.

Obviously you haven't read his earlier posts where he considers GZ to be negligent because he didn't follow these guidelines. If he wants to waste his time by climbing on a soapbox to discuss things that have no revelance in this case more power to him.

 

[TerryMathews]

You could try to say the same about me but it (obviously) wouldn't apply. You claiming that Zimmerman's story is air-tight is pure bullshit.

I never said it was air-tight. However, it must be credible or one of the several people who have a vested interest in charging him to avoid a race riot would have done so.

You are taking the opposite extreme, disregarding it as fiction. At this point, it's too big for any normal person to claim that there is an ongoing coverup. And if there was in the beginning, the special prosecutor was their out to drop the coverup and save face.

There are a list of charges that GZ could be charged with, out of spite if nothing else if his story was anything but true. The fact that nothing, not even filing a false police report, has been charged on GZ after nearly 2 months says a little something I think.

Look, I get it. It is tragic that a child is dead. That isn't lost on anyone. But just because it was tragic doesn't mean that a crime was committed, or that GZ acted in bad faith. There are tragedies every day. They aren't all crimes.

 

[MH2007]

I'm wrong about Cutcher.

Here's an old article with her complaints:

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/witness-sanford-police-blew-us-teen-slaying/nLSqk/

Looks like she is one of the witnesses on the police report.

Fern

Also in this video

http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/pt-2-family-of-teen-shot-in-sanford-holds-press/vGZML/

at about 7:30 you can hear Mary Cutcher and Selma Lamilla both emphatically claim that there were no cries for help. Keep in mind that this press conference was right before the 911 tapes were released. In 911 Call 3 you can clearly hear that the cries are for help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trayvon_Martin_Shooting_Call3.ogg

 

[Fern]

Also in this video

http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/pt-2-family-of-teen-shot-in-sanford-holds-press/vGZML/

at about 7:30 you can hear Mary Cutcher and Selma Lamilla both emphatically claim that there were no cries for help. Keep in mind that this press conference was right before the 911 tapes were released. In 911 Call 3 you can clearly hear that the cries are for help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trayvon_Martin_Shooting_Call3.ogg

Just to be clear, when I said I was wrong I'm talking about the possibility she's one of the witnesses listed on the police report etc.

As far as her testimony, it seems to me it's changed so much so often I completely discounted her some time ago.

Fern

 

[MH2007]

they are the same everywhere not limited or different state by state. Maybe Zimmerman didnt know how to use google.

Odds are they were provided a ton of literature. I am barley a member of mine yet alone the capitan and I know not to pack my glock21. I was also mailed and emailed a ton of stuff outlining what you should do and NOT do.

Unless your just calling Zimmerman stupid or obtuse instead of willfully ingoring the guidlines.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nei....,cf.osb&fp=c98d3a4d2852b109&biw=1272&bih=595

Zimmerman and the watch program in the community were working directly with Sanford PD and the guidelines under which they operated came directly from them. Claiming that he should have Googled for some secondary guidelines is nonsensical. Sanford PD has stated that Zimmerman had every right to be in possession of his weapon at the time of the shooting due to his permit to carry from the state.

 

[MH2007]

Zimmerman was working on a degree in criminology. Reports indicate he was only one semester away from his degree.

He was also holding a job, married, abstained from drinking, and was renting a home in the community. (I'm not sure where some people's notion that he was living with his parents is coming from, I haven't seen any indication that his parents ever lived in that housing development.)