Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[corwin]

Several minutes?? If the timeline I remember is correct maybe three minutes, Zimmerman calls dispatcher 7:11PM, girlfriend's four minute call ends 7:16PM, police arrive 7:17PM, Trayvan pronounced dead 7:30PM.

That would fit the description of several yes...but again I was asking (maybe stating) that if she was on the phone the entire time then she should be able to answer what he was doing that whole time as well as provide that snippet of what their conversation started out with...I would be curious what she has to say about that since I suspect he was hiding somewhere and others guess he was "lost"...

 

[a777pilot]

If he was an elected capitan, they may want to reconsider since he follows none of their guidlines.

How so? He, Zimmerman, was not on duty as a NW person that night. He was returning from a personal errand.

 

[Geosurface]

How so? He, Zimmerman, was not on duty as a NW person that night. He was returning from a personal errand.

I was about to remind folks of this too. I do wonder, though, to be fair... whether he really did draw a distinction between acting in that capacity and his personal time or not.

 

[Fern]

I think that there is a considerable amount of information we can glean from the witness descriptions in the police report:

WITNESS 1
White Male, DOB 04/18/1982 (age 29), height 6' weight 170 lbs, brown hair blue eyes

-snip-

Regarding the witnesses.

Unlike you, I'm not sure Cutcher and her roommate are on the witness report. When this hit the news both claimed the police failed to interview them but the police claimed they did but both said they saw nothing at the night of the investigation. For this reason I'm doubting they're listed as witness on that police report.

Edit: I'm wrong about this:

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/witness-sanford-police-blew-us-teen-slaying/nLSqk/

Also I disagree about Austin. The police clearly spoke with him and his mother that night. His mother is the one claiming lead investigator Serino spoke with them and acted as though he didn't believe Zimmerman's account. For this reason I think Austin may be included in the police report.

Edit: I could be wrong here about Austin too. Too many conflicting stories and am tired of googling about him. I reviewed the police report again and saw several instances where witnesses were described as "adult", but also a few where that description seems purposefully redacted out.

Fern

 

[CitizenKain]

And still no arrest or nary a peep for the bounty for zimmerman's head. Remember, this is Eric Holder's panther party.

Eric Holder's panther party? Oh thats right, you instantly assume Eric Holder, because of his ethnicity, of siding with New Black Panthers, despite no evidence about this. Meanwhile Nazi's show up down there, but since they are white, welp.

 

[MH2007]

Several minutes?? If the timeline I remember is correct maybe three minutes, Zimmerman calls dispatcher 7:11PM, girlfriend's four minute call ends 7:16PM, police arrive 7:17PM, Trayvan pronounced dead 7:30PM.

If you include the two minutes after which Zimmerman says "okay" after being told "we don't need you to do that" and you can hear his breathing return to normal that would end up being "several minutes."

We know that Martin was headed to Brandy Green's house because Zimmerman tells the police dispatch that Martin is headed towards the back entrance. If Martin had continued the 100 yards or so remaining after Zimmerman loses sight of him he could have covered the distance easily, twice, possibly even several times over.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Regarding the witnesses.

Unlike you, I'm not sure Cutcher and her roommate are on the witness report. When this hit the news both claimed the police failed to interview them but the police claimed they did but both said they saw nothing at the night of the investigation. For this reason I'm doubting they're listed as witness on that police report.

Also I disagree about Austin. The police clearly spoke with him and his mother that night. His mother is the one claiming lead investigator Serino spoke with them and acted as though he didn't believe Zimmerman's account. For this reason I think Austin may be included in the police report.

Fern

Correct me if I am wrong, but I also seem to remember it being said that on Cutcher's 911 call, she was unsure of who was screaming. This is recorded for all to hear. Suddenly AFTER the event she is convinced it's the boy? Were I the police I'd dismiss her too...

If Martin had continued the 100 yards or so remaining after Zimmerman loses sight of him he could have covered the distance easily, twice, possibly even several times over.

Personally, and having noticed this interesting piece of info myself, I have to say this is a major reason I believe Martin DID in fact turn around and confront Zimmerman, and why I believe Zimmerman's self defense claim.

 

[corwin]

I was about to remind folks of this too. I do wonder, though, to be fair... whether he really did draw a distinction between acting in that capacity and his personal time or not.

Technically it's all "personal" time...I'm a member of my neighborhood watch but we don't do "official" patrols or anything...we all get email updates from our police contact about crimes in our area and trends in our town in general and other tidbits here and there about safety and such but that's about it...

 

[lotus503]

How so? He, Zimmerman, was not on duty as a NW person that night. He was returning from a personal errand.

When your in neighborhood watch you are never off duty in your neighborhood.

you either are watchful and a participant or you are not.

"
Citizen Patrols
An effective tool for some Watch programs to use is a citizen patrol. It is up to the community in conjunction with law enforcement to decide whether a patrol is needed. Citizen patrols are volunteers who walk or drive an area on a regular basis to report incidents and problems to the police and provide a visible presence that deters criminal activity. They have no policing powers, carry no weapons, are nonconfrontational, and always coordinate activities with law enforcement. A citizen patrol can cover a neighborhood, an apartment lobby or complex, a business district, or a park; some use bicycles, in-line skates, or cars to cover larger areas. They contact the police dispatcher through two-way radios or cellular phones donated by a local business. Cameras or video equipment may be used to record suspicious activity. Many patrols are based in a Neighborhood Watch program or work closely with one.
"

 

[RampantAndroid]

Technically it's all "personal" time...I'm a member of my neighborhood watch but we don't do "official" patrols or anything...we all get email updates from our police contact about crimes in our area and trends in our town in general and other tidbits here and there about safety and such but that's about it...

Isn't that the very premise of neighborhood watches? That everyone is "on duty" all the time? That is to say, they don't have shifts...they just keep an eye out and notify authorities when needed.

 

[a777pilot]

I was about to remind folks of this too. I do wonder, though, to be fair... whether he really did draw a distinction between acting in that capacity and his personal time or not.

I would think he, Zimmerman, would make that distinction. Those on NW are not normally armed. That night he was.

 

[Dari]

Untrue.

Yep, I've made some YouTube videos. Your point? there are a lot of people on YouTube making vids about this case, presenting various snippets from newscasts trying to tie links together, or assemble things in a way that highlights contradictions or connections others may have failed to make. Not saying I'm particularly good at it, but I don't see how being one of those people makes me irrational. If you wanted to make a good case about me being irrational, swap notes with DVC he will give you some pointers. He's made a much better case about it than you, as far as my "fan fiction" and passionate defense of Zimmerman. I still don't think any of that indicates irrationality on my part, but he came closer to making the point than you. That's for sure.

Maybe "irrational" wasn't the right word for me to put on you though. It certainly applies, but it sort of misses the point... your bigger problem is that you are wildly immature.

"Wildly immature". That's a first. Makes no sense but whatever...

 

[MH2007]

Regarding the witnesses.

Unlike you, I'm not sure Cutcher and her roommate are on the witness report. When this hit the news both claimed the police failed to interview them but the police claimed they did but both said they saw nothing at the night of the investigation. For this reason I'm doubting they're listed as witness on that police report.

Also I disagree about Austin. The police clearly spoke with him and his mother that night. His mother is the one claiming lead investigator Serino spoke with them and acted as though he didn't believe Zimmerman's account. For this reason I think Austin may be included in the police report.

Fern

If you listen to Cutcher's 911 call she is shouting at Selma (who is at the patio door watching Zimmerman) to get inside seconds prior to the police arriving. I do think the police most likely made sure to at least try talking to Selma. I am not sure if Mary and Selma really said the police didn't talk to them, just that they disagreed with what the police say about what they said.

Also if you look at the 911 calls there is only one female caller unaccounted for, I am not sure who the two unidentified female witnesses could be.

As for Austin Brown none of the six witnesses listed are 13 y.o. boys and plus I thought his mother complained that the police didn't talk to him for days after the shooting (they had tried to organize a meeting but the first time didn't work out).

 

[lotus503]

I would think he, Zimmerman, would make that distinction. Those on NW are not normally armed. That night he was.

When your driving through the area looking at people to determine if they are suspious and a member of neighborhood watch, your on.

Lets just face facts they guy didnt give two shits about the watch guildlines, becasue he broke a fuckton of the rules.

Doesnt mean he murdered him but it does mean he doesnt think the guidlines applied to him for whatever reason.

 

[TerryMathews]

When your driving through the area looking at people to determine if they are suspious and a member of neighborhood watch, your on.

Lets just face facts they guy didnt give two shits about the watch guildlines, becasue he broke a fuckton of the rules.

Doesnt mean he murdered him but it does mean he doesnt think the guidlines applied to him for whatever reason.

Or he thought state law and his constitutional rights trumped these guidelines?

 

[MH2007]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I also seem to remember it being said that on Cutcher's 911 call, she was unsure of who was screaming. This is recorded for all to hear. Suddenly AFTER the event she is convinced it's the boy? Were I the police I'd dismiss her too...

She doesn't mention the screaming at all. Note that hers is the only 911 call out of the seven where no screaming is mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trayvon_Martin_Shooting_Call6.ogg

0:42
911: And there's someone laying in the back yard?
caller: Yeah and there's people around them now with um ... get inside, Selma
911: Do you know if it's kids, or ...?
caller: Ummm, no, ummm my daughter, yes, she's across the street ... [aside] get (?) ... the black guy ... hey you know what, call, use your phone call Shirley and tell her to lock the front door
911: Okay we've got units on the way out there, what ... what do you mean it's a black guy, that got shot?
caller: I don't know, [aside, yelling] Selma is it the black guy that got shot or is he ... the one ... uh ... there's a black guy standing up over him.
911: There's a black male standing over him?
caller: Yeah and then there's people coming out with uh ummm ... you know let me go upstairs and look out the window I don't want to walk outside
911: Can you tell me what the guy's wearing?
caller: Hold on, I will ... [aside] call Shirley ... police are here ... I think someone else already called 911
1:33

 

[lotus503]

Or he thought state law and his constitutional rights trumped these guidelines?

then why be a member at all?

What it shows is a disregard for the guidlines of the group he was capitan of.

There is a reason they have those guildlines, to avoid stupid shit like this from happening.

 

[a777pilot]

Similar situation developing in Dallas.

A 13 y/o boy killed by NW person as that kid was breaking into that NW person's house. Two other young teenagers are under arrest. The shooter is thought to be white the dead is either mexican or black.

Just making the news. Very limited info. but sounds very much like the Florida situation.

 

[corwin]

When your driving through the area looking at people to determine if they are suspious and a member of neighborhood watch, your on.

Lets just face facts they guy didnt give two shits about the watch guildlines, becasue he broke a fuckton of the rules.

Doesnt mean he murdered him but it does mean he doesnt think the guidlines applied to him for whatever reason.

Aside from some dubious "organization" that wants to promote itself as some sort of NW clearinghouse what "rules" were broken? I guess I should be more specific, what LAWS were broken?

I believe from what we know that would be zero, no laws broken by Z, which would be why he is still not in jail and will continue to not be in jail...and it can still be argued that he was following a "suggestion" from the operator he was talking to to "let them know what he's doing" when he took off to follow T, mind you it's interpretive to take that general phrase to mean follow but it's not like he was told explicitly to not follow him and it can be presumed that when he received the suggestion to stop he did so...

 

[lotus503]

Similar situation developing in Dallas.

A 13 y/o boy killed by NW person as that kid was breaking into that NW person's house. Two other young teenagers are under arrest. The shooter is thought to be white the dead is either mexican or black.

Just making the news. Very limited info. but sounds very much like the Florida situation.

except for the breaking into the house part.

 

[TerryMathews]

then why be a member at all?

What it shows is a disregard for the guidlines of the group he was capitan of.

There is a reason they have those guildlines, to avoid stupid shit like this from happening.

How do you know GZ even saw those guidelines? They aren't published by the SPD or the state of Florida.

 

[Dari]

Don't know where a 28 year old finds time to be on a Neighborhood Watch. Either he has nothing else to do or has a police complex. Seriously, at that age you should be working hard on your career, starting a family, or just enjoying life. Or all three. When would you have time to patrol your neighborhood? Shit like that is for older folks or people that are unemployed. That or there must really be nothing else to do West Bubblefuck.

 

[corwin]

then why be a member at all?

What it shows is a disregard for the guidlines of the group he was capitan of.

There is a reason they have those guildlines, to avoid stupid shit like this from happening.

Once more, they were not affiliated with nor subscribed to any of the "guidelines" you speak of nor have any of the 3 groups I have participated in over the years

 

[Fern]

I'm wrong about Cutcher.

Here's an old article with her complaints:

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/witness-sanford-police-blew-us-teen-slaying/nLSqk/

Looks like she is one of the witnesses on the police report.

Fern

 

[lotus503]

How do you know GZ even saw those guidelines? They aren't published by the SPD or the state of Florida.

they are the same everywhere not limited or different state by state. Maybe Zimmerman didnt know how to use google.

Odds are they were provided a ton of literature. I am barley a member of mine yet alone the capitan and I know not to pack my glock21. I was also mailed and emailed a ton of stuff outlining what you should do and NOT do.

Unless your just calling Zimmerman stupid or obtuse instead of willfully ingoring the guidlines.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nei....,cf.osb&fp=c98d3a4d2852b109&biw=1272&bih=595