Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
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Whatever. The facts still are that he killed a 17 year old kid under highly questionable circumstances and won't even be indicted for his death.

Killing someone who breaks your nose may not be correct, but killing somone who's banging your head abgainsg the cement.... yeah, that works for me.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
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It's common sense that if you shoot someone on the street you ought to be tested.

I mean, we test olympic athletes job seekers all the time. It's not too much of a reach to test MURDER SUSPECTS.

You should leave the common sense judgements to those with some.
 

Sacrilege

Senior member
Sep 6, 2007
647
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All local TV news stations (ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX) were showing the stories about T and Z again.

Funny how none of them showed any "up to date" pictures of T and Z, still the same old pics of Z in orange jump suit and T in several years old pics. So much for journalist integrity.

Why do you say this? Do you think he looked like a stereotypical "thug" which would drive fear into White America?
 
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umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...o-burglaries/2012/03/27/gIQAbZZueS_story.html

Prior to the incident, he had jewelry in his backpack, but police couldn't tie it to a burglary.


http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=9954261
Also had a screwdriver on him...

Damn... if he had only still had that screwdriver on him when the armed Zimmerman confronted him in late February instead of back in October of last year... things might have turned out different.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
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Why do you say this? Do you think he looked like a stereotypical "thug" which would drive fear into White America?

If you look close enough you can actually tell the difference between these two black people. May be difficult for the untrained non-black eye, but it can be done.

edit: beat me to it with the edit. Racist.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
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Why do you say this? Do you think he looked like a stereotypical "thug" which would drive fear into White America?

He sure as hell wassn't the 12 year old in that picture anymore and Zimmerman wasn't the fat ass in orange prison garb anympore either.

For people who claim "they only want justice" I've never seen such a bunch of snarky, lying, loser misfits all on one place at the same time.

:p
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
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Why do you say this? Do you think he looked like a stereotypical "thug" which would drive fear into White America?

I believe in facts. The pictures from the mainstream media outlets did not show up to date pictures of both sides = ommitting facts. When I first read the story and saw the pictures of T, I told myself "no way the guy in the pictures was a 17 years old high school student" and I was right.

Take a look at my handful posts in this thread (#5001 = http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=33187637&postcount=5001 ), I stated repeatly that let wait for all the facts to come in and not jumping to conclusion like many others in here.

Edit: Another thing, why there are no up to date pictures of T from all the people that were matching and chanting/shouting on the streets across America? Why still carried around the early teen pics?
 
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Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
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Why do you say this? Do you think he looked like a stereotypical "thug" which would drive fear into White America?

I would think the value of more accurate/recent information would be evident. We want the most accurate picture of this event possible, right?

Maybe the point isn't to drum up fear in "white America" maybe it's to get the truth out for it's own sake, and maybe just maybe help people understand that Zimmerman's initial suspicions were not completely unfathomable.

If people start to realize that his initial reaction to seeing this stranger walking around was more logical than they initially believed, and helps reduce his demonization, that can only be a good thing if we're actually hoping to get at the truth here, rather than just have a lynching.

I don't think anyone is claiming that dressing like a gangsta, getting gold grills in your teeth, being a petty thief and delinquent at school, vandalism, certain types of attire or ways of carrying yourself to look "hard" to your fellow teens who are all doing it too, that any of this justifies being shot.

No, obviously in this free country Trayvon had every right to dress that way, act that way, etc. I think his criminal choices are unfortunate, but I've had friends who did that sort of thing and they were still good people for the most part.

No, the choice he made which changes everything was the choice to brutally assault Zimmerman. If Zimmerman's account is accurate (and it certainly seems to fit the evidence and eyewitness testimony) then the crucial moment where Trayvon took the embracing of thug culture too far was when he decked Zimmerman and then straddled him and started slamming his head on the pavement.

In my ideal world even then he would not be shot, I don't like it when people die, period. I would've much, much preferred the cops show up, wrestle him off Z, and drag him off to jail that night. Following that, he has a real wake up call where his parents give him the "come to Jesus" speech and he ends up forsaking the criminal path he was on, and becoming a fantastic member of society from that point forward. That would've been great.

But I can't really fault Zimmerman for fearing for his life, maybe all he was going to get was a bad beating but, the law is pretty clear on his right to use that gun at that point. I'm not really much of a fan of guns, never owned one myself. I think it's extremely unlikely that Trayvon was going to keep at this until Zimmerman was dead, and so I largely wish the gun hadn't been there.

But I definitely don't think Zimmerman is a monster. This is a tragedy, but as with most tragedies there is no real villain.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
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Zimmerman wasn't the fat ass in orange prison garb anymore either.

Just a little correction, I made the same mistake and thought he was in prison garb for the longest time too, but let's look at the picture again more closely:

George-Zimmerman-mugshot.jpg


Look more closely at his collar. That's not prison garb at all, that's just (for him) a very unfortunate coincidence in what he happened to be wearing that night. We all logically should've realized this, nobody gets a mug shot taken in prison garb. It looks like it at first brush though, and that's just another factor among many in all this that have lead to Zimmerman being demonized.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
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To use similar logic as some other forum posters HAD they found drugs or Alcohol in Martins system dont you think they wouldhave shared that by now.

Good find!

Yes, but they didn't share anything until it became a problem. They wouldn't even mention Zimmerman or the witnesses' claims until people assumed that he just shot and that there was no altercation. Obviously, to claim self defense you must claim to have been attacked, but people just assumed that Trayvon didn't attack and that Zimmerman shot him in cold blood and the police covered it up with no evidence to support the claim. We know this is completely false and so we also know that you can't go by what they DON'T say.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
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SYG was supposed to help battered women who couldn't escape from their husbands at home. Not for vigilantes to comb the streets, looking for a "suspicious" black teenager.
No. SYG laws were meant to extend the same rights you have to defend yourself at home into public areas as well. You can't selectively apply. To legally defend oneself with lethal force when being attacked, a vigilante looking for suspicious persons needs the protection of the law the same as you, me, or anyone else. The line you just drew is laughably ridiculous.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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No. SYG laws were meant to extend the same rights you have to defend yourself at home into public areas as well. You can't selectively apply. To legally defend oneself with lethal force when being attacked, a vigilante looking for suspicious persons needs the protection of the law the same as you, me, or anyone else. The line you just drew is laughably ridiculous.

Here's the problem. If a stranger breaks into your home, there is a very high chance he has criminal intent. It is relatively easy to determine criminal intent in such a case.

In public, the variables are so much greater and certainty in someone threatening you is far far less.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
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Here's the problem. If a stranger breaks into your home, there is a very high chance he has criminal intent. It is relatively easy to determine criminal intent in such a case.

In public, the variables are so much greater and certainty in someone threatening you is far far less.

Not after you are already being attacked.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
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I find it funny that in a CNN article, they refer to Zimmerman as a "White Hispanic"... Anyone else find that odd?
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
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The Trayvon Martin flipping the bird photos may not be the Trayvon Martin we're looking for.


http://www.11alive.com/news/article...e-web-image-actually-shows-a-different-person

http://www.northwestohio.com/news/story.aspx?id=735111#.T3KXmGEgfkA

The comparison photos try to paint a different picture. The one of Zimmerman shows him happy and smiling and was taken recently...and the one of Martin, allegedly taken from his Facebook page, shows him shirtless in a knit hat wearing saggy pants with both middle fingers displayed for the camera.

It's the one with the middle fingers that isn't the Trayvon Martin that was shot...but is, instead, a different Trayvon Martin.


120326121543_trayvon-race-baiting.jpg






The only problem is that THE TRAYVON MARTIN PICTURE ON THE RIGHT IS *NOT* THE TRAYVON MARTING WHO WAS SHOT

Could be an honest mistake or as some more conspiratorial sites are calling it a "smear campaign"

Who knows?
 
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micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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You and I have a completely different definition of "certainty," because it certainly wasn't certain.

Look up Trevor Dooley. 41 year old father killed in front of his 8 yr .o daughter A punch does not justify shooting and killing.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
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Look up Trevor Dooley. 41 year old father killed in front of his 8 yr .o daughter A punch does not justify shooting and killing.
Opinion. Truth? It depends. If you know anything about these laws, they do not nor should they require an attacker to injure or shoot first for good reason. You defend against allowing it to ever happen, not retaliate after you happen to survive the attempt.
 
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micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
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Could be an honest mistake or as some more conspiratorial sites are calling it a "smear campaign"

I think it was possibly an honest, though careless mistake.

I encountered this picture on a Facebook page labeled "Trayvon Martin", a number of days ago, when I was looking for the real TM's FB page (for an updated photo). That photo appears to be of a middle-school aged kid. There were more photos on that page that were closer shots that showed that it was clearly not the TM from the investigation.
 

jstern01

Senior member
Mar 25, 2010
532
0
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Here is the latest on the case.

1. The lead investigator had enough doubt about Zimmerman's version of the events that he recommended that Zimmerman be charged with homicide/negligent manslaughter.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...t-to-charge-zimmerman-20120327,0,748228.story

2. The Local State's attorney refused to issue the warrant, based upon the fact that they felt they did not have enough evidence, despite the lead investigators information. Also in a break with standard procedure, no one from the local state's attorney office, visited the scene before declining to pursue the case.

3. Zimmerman did not have any pictures taken of his injuries at the scene of the accident, again not following procedure.

4. The paramedics who treated him at the scene obviously felt he was not injuried enough to allow him to leave the scene, clearly the injuries were never life threatening.

5. Zimmerman spent time in the Sanford police station, without an attorney or any recording of the interview (as we have yet to hear of any video or audio tapes). Again out of the norm for such a incident.

6. The special prosecutor in an interview published in the LA Times and I quote, "It's possible that we’ll just make a decision without the grand jury".

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...-pleads-for-patience-20120327,0,1949206.story

What that means depends upon who you ask, but I can not remember in the past 25 years here in Central Florida that a high profile case like this not going to the grand jury, unless the prosecutor will be pressing charges, simply because its easier to pass the buck.

Will we see a decision soon? Probably not, but its looking more likely Zimmerman will get charged with some crime that allows the state to say they did their job, and pass it on to the court.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,708
514
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I think it was possibly an honest, though careless mistake.

I'm open to either possibility it really depends on the site that posted the erroneous photo and the caption they used to describe it.

However some people will never realize that the picture spread widely over the weekend happened to be the wrong one.