Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
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State attorney's office is more political? Also might be worried about conviction rates.

I agree statements that the original version was office politics but not the newest version from the state attorney's?

He didnt believe Zimmermans version of events, doesnt change the evidence but if Serino didnt why should we?
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
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I agree statements that the original version was office politics but not the newest version from the state attorney's?

He didnt believe Zimmermans version of events, doesnt change the evidence but if Serino didnt why should we?

The reason not to believe Zimmerman is because there is a 1 minute gap where we have no one other than Zimmerman. Also a brutal beatdown by Martin on Zimmerman makes no sense when Martin spent most of his time running in the entire encounter.

BUt really, we have no witnesses or proof from the beginning of the fight.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
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Which part is false the part where he he did not believe Zimmerman's version of events, or the part the where Wolfinger tells him they dont have the evidence or both?

Wolfe said I was confusing two different things.

The article I linked is a refutation by the prosecutors office of the previous report claiming the lead investigator wanted to arrest Zimmerman and signed an affidavit saying he did not believe Zimmerman's version.

Fern
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,899
63
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No, they are a history of someone that disrespects authority and the law. The history of him attacking a bus driver shows the above AND he has made a violent action in the past. Don't forget the bag full of women's jewelry that was taken from him.

Does Zimmerman not have a history with the settled assault charges?
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
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They don't have evidence/testimony that refutes his claim of self defense nor establishes probable cause to charge him with manslaughter. Based on what has been reported, some of the evidence/testimony corroborates his claim of self defense.

"an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin."

No mention of Martin on top, that refutes his self defense claim, it can be further corroborated by forensics but we have to wait for that.

It makes it appear on the surface that Martin may have disengaged from the beatdown, was not on top of him and was shot.

John said he say Martin on top beating him, then ran upstairs as he was he heard the shot, its plausable that John yelling that hes calling police. Sparked Martin to disengage when he was shot. John looks out the window to see Martin on the ground, Despite Martin on top beating his ass, in the time it takes John to go upstairs Zimmerman Shoots him and has enough time to get out from underneath the body.

Or John sees martin beating him yells he is calling police, prompting Martin to get up when Z fires and kills him.

Given the timing it appears Austin may have been the only person to see what occured during the time John was runnign upstairs to call cops, and he didnt see martin on top beating him.
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,302
1
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It's hard to keep up with this thread. Anyway, a comment on the marijuana. The article I read a couple days ago stated that not only wwas the bag found, but also a marijuana pipe. I think it's safe to say that he smoked and would have smoked within the month before his death. He may have been clean on that night, but the toxicology should show his previous marijuana use.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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The thing is that I believe Zimmerman likely said SOMETHING to provoke Martin into punching him. There is no way that Martin just cold clocked him out of the blue. It might have been an accusation or a demand or something like that, but I do not believe that Martin punched him for "what are you doing here".
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
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Given the timing it appears Austin may have been the only person to see what occured during the time John was runnign upstairs to call cops, and he didnt see martin on top beating him.

I guess Zimmerman must have beat himself.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
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The thing is that I believe Zimmerman likely said SOMETHING to provoke Martin into punching him. There is no way that Martin just cold clocked him out of the blue. It might have been an accusation or a demand or something like that, but I do not believe that Martin punched him for "what are you doing here".

I don't see this going to trial. There are just too many possibilities/variables and absent any hard evidence of wrongdoing, Zimmerman has to get the benifit of the doubt.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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Your timeline needs some love as well, I'll help you with the best I can and maybe I can clear some things up for you.

I think your start is pretty accurate based on Z's 911 call and the girls account.


At the:

1:38 into Z's call we hear the "these assholes always..." line, this is when M starts walking fast with Z following in vehicle

2:08 "shit he's running" (verified by GF account told him to run)

2:14 'ding ding' of interior bells/door slams shut (Z on foot now)

...So at 2:14 Z is on foot as evidence by running and heavy breathing.

2:23 "are you following him?"

2:25 "yep"

2:26 "ok... we don't need you to do that"

2:28 "ok" (Z agrees but does he stop?)

2:44 heavy breathing stops... you can hear first knocking on window/door (someone's house he know's? Not sure) So he is still outside on foot, 16 seconds after saying OK.

2:47 you can hear him knocking even louder now 'knock, knock, knock'

3:08 knocking very loud now So still outside on foot, 40 seconds after saying OK... still talking to dispatcher on phone giving directions to where he parked the truck...

3:30 what's your appt number?

3:33 it's a home it's 1950... (more knocking)

3:36 "oh crap I don't want to give it all out I don't know where this kid is..."
So still outside on foot searching for Martin, not wanting Martin to potentially overhear where Z lives, 1:08 seconds after saying OK.

3:42 dispatcher asks do you want to just meet with them at the mailboxes then...

3:44 "yeah that's fine"

3:48 "actually, could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?"

3:55 "do you know my number?"

4:02 dispatcher says I'll let them know to call you when they're in the area

4:05 "thanks"

So that's 1:37 seconds after he said OK he was still on foot. That's almost 2 minutes after he exited the truck and started running. Phone call ends and it doesn't sound like he is looking for any street signs or looking for his truck, or the parked truck meeting place would have been fine and he wouldn't be changing his mind and telling them to call him so he can give them his new location. He for sure wasn't in his truck...

We know that 1 minute goes by after Z's call ends and the fight and shot is fired and M is dead 70 yards away from his back door between rows of buildings some distance from Z's truck still.

Still have no idea other than Z's testimony who hit who first, but it all went down and was over pretty quick after the call ended.

EDIT: oh the audio link that matches the time stamps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw


My timeline isn't off, but I wasn't trying to fill it either. I was mentioned the running was done at first and Z mentioned he ran. This is consistent with the claim the GF made.

With no eye witness testimony saying exactly what he was doing while GZ was first on foot, it is hard to ascribe his actions to anything. Could he have been trying to chase down Martin? could he have been running back up the street to find a street sign? either is speculation. He said in the audio that he was in a "cut -away" which is not a street, but an alley in the neighborhood. Probably an area where cars go to park if all the houses have rear facing garages. I know of neighborhoods like that. Which stands to reason he doesn't know the street he is on to direct the police to him and so runs up the street to find out where to direct them. Which case he is NOT pursuing TM when he is acting on this request of the dispatcher to let them know where he is.





I've also listen to the audio of the alleged racial slur over and over. Seriously it could be punks or coons. If you listen thinking it is one thing you hear that. I'm serious. If I think he's about to say fucking punks I hear fucking punks. If I think he is about to say fucking coons I hear fucking coons. The audio to garbled to make it out at all.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
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I don't see this going to trial. There are just too many possibilities/variables and absent any hard evidence of wrongdoing, Zimmerman has to get the benifit of the doubt.

Why give him the benefit of the doubt? He killed a 17 year old who was not in the commission of a crime.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
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Why give him the benefit of the doubt? He killed a 17 year old who was not in the commission of a crime.

Because that's the way our system of justice is set up. We'd rather let a guilty party go then hang an innocent man, so if there isn't enough proof to convict they are set free.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
I guess Zimmerman must have beat himself.

Or zimmerman got his ass beat, John startled Martin by yelling he is calling the police, martin disengaged enought to not be in direct view of Austin Brown who never mentions seeing him. Just Zimmerman on the ground

At that point he has potentially disengaged and is no longer a threat in which case he is shot and self defense doesnt apply.

Point is there is testimony that counters the claim martin was beating him when he is shot. Otherwise Austin see martin on top beating him.

Forensics should be able to tell whats what.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
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Or zimmerman got his ass beat, John startled Martin by yelling he is calling the police, martin disengaged enought to not be in direct view of Austin Brown who never mentions seeing him. Just Zimmerman on the ground

At that point he has potentially disengaged and is no longer a threat in which case he is shot and self defense doesnt apply.

Point is there is testimony that counters the claim martin was beating him when he is shot. Otherwise Austin see martin on top beating him.

Forensics should be able to tell whats what.

You fool. You don't know what happened anymore then I do.
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,302
1
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I don't see this going to trial. There are just too many possibilities/variables and absent any hard evidence of wrongdoing, Zimmerman has to get the benifit of the doubt.

I think if this was any normal case, he would not be charged... there's not enough evidence to dispute his story. In this case, though, they are in a bind. Not charging him will cause a shitstorm, civic unrest and possible rioting. On the other hand, they know that charging him and then going to trial with a weak case, he may get off, causing an even bigger shitstorm, civic unrest and rioting.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
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Because that's the way our system of justice is set up. We'd rather let a guilty party go then hang an innocent man, so if there isn't enough proof to convict they are set free.

Which is lulz and irony cuz he killed a person who wasnt necessarily doing anything.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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The thing is that I believe Zimmerman likely said SOMETHING to provoke Martin into punching him. There is no way that Martin just cold clocked him out of the blue. It might have been an accusation or a demand or something like that, but I do not believe that Martin punched him for "what are you doing here".

Evidence of his thug lifestyle says otherwise.

Zimmerman disrespected Martin. And that is to be met with a brutal attack.