Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
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One thing is for sure, the police is going to pay them a lot of money. They never even searched Zimmerman's vehicle, I didn't even know that. If the lead investigator thought his story was bogus, kinda weird a prosecutor let him walk. Because I believe he would be convicted if put on trial.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Soo much speculation and accusations being made without all the facts. It's sickening. Again, innocent until proven guilty. We don't have all the facts either. Everyone is willing to go for George Zimmerman's blood just from all the speculation that has been done.

If evidence comes to light that GZ is guilty, I'm all there to see him sentenced a harshly as possible. I do believe that Florida has the death penalty instated. But I doubt that premeditation will be able to float so that is likely out. But this is my view if all the evidence, which NONE OF US HAVE SEEN, comes to light in a court of law that finds GZ guilty of murder or manslaughter.

If there isn't any evidence or the evidence shows him innocent then everyone calling for his blood needs to stop being so rabid and move on with life.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
hahahaha. This has nothing to do with either of those. You are thick, indeed.
The failure to take blood and/or urine has everything to do with the Fourth and Fifth Amendments. I wished they had pressed to get voluntary samples just so we'd know, but it's not automatically a given that they could get a warrant; they would have to show probable cause. For that matter they should really have probable cause to even ask; sadly the law does not recognize my curiosity as a valid reason to force someone into possibly producing self-incriminating evidence via an unreasonable search.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
hahahaha. This has nothing to do with either of those. You are thick, indeed.

Regarding the 4th and 5th:

Basically one deals with (the collection of) evidence and the other with (due process and) trials. So how could they not be relevant?

Fern
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Idiot. I said he should be put on trial. Putting someone on trial is not a violation of the 4th amendment. Indefinite detentions in the WOT are.

Here's the law that must be followed.

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
LOL @ "constitutionalists" in this thread. LOL. Don't even understand the 4th amendment, and yet are standing up for the constitution. LOL.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
Here's the law that must be followed.

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

State law. Nothing to do with the US constitution.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Soo much speculation and accusations being made without all the facts. It's sickening. Again, innocent until proven guilty. We don't have all the facts either. Everyone is willing to go for George Zimmerman's blood just from all the speculation that has been done.

If evidence comes to light that GZ is guilty, I'm all there to see him sentenced a harshly as possible. I do believe that Florida has the death penalty instated. But I doubt that premeditation will be able to float so that is likely out. But this is my view if all the evidence, which NONE OF US HAVE SEEN, comes to light in a court of law that finds GZ guilty of murder or manslaughter.

If there isn't any evidence or the evidence shows him innocent then everyone calling for his blood needs to stop being so rabid and move on with life.

People are on a message forum expressing there views and opinions based on the limited info we have and the media accounts. I am not tryign to fry the guy and think he deseserves the rights afforded to him by law.

But that doesnt mean I need to hold my opinions to the standard of presumption of innocence. because I am not involved with the case and have no duty to only evaluate the evidence.

Forensics and autopsy may hold the smoking gun. Until then people will speculate and offer their opinions. thats all this forum is
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Idiot. I said he should be put on trial. Putting someone on trial is not a violation of the 4th amendment. Indefinite detentions in the WOT are.
Can't put someone on trial without probable cause; that IS a violation of the Fourth Amendment. I imagine it's probably gonna happen anyway to satisfy public opinion, but that's the theory.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
I want to see the forensics pertaining to the gunshot.

Eaxctly see if it corroborates he was on top of him.

Or if Austin browns account of seeing Zimmerman on the ground with no mention of martin is correct.

If that gunshot doesnt support Martin on top Zimmerman is done
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
The Constitution guarantees him the right to due process according to the law. He can't be forced in to incriminate himself nor can he be subjected to illegal search and seizures. Talk about being dense, go look in the mirror.

haha. all the family is asking for is due process under the law. He killed another person and should answer for it.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
State law. Nothing to do with the US constitution.
The Bill of Rights applies to all Americans and even all aliens in America, with some narrow exceptions. The Fourteenth Amendment specifically extended their precedence over state law, so in this case, following the state law IS the due process.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
This guy is acting like Z should walk free and for the state to do otherwise would violate whatever he thinks the constitution is.

Thats why I blocked him so he can circle jerk with those who share his narrow view.

I dig the dialogue on here even with the folks I dont agree with, Each day im on here I learn something new, most of the time its from folks who I dont agree with on the issue of what transpired.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
People are on a message forum expressing there views and opinions based on the limited info we have and the media accounts. I am not tryign to fry the guy and think he deseserves the rights afforded to him by law.

But that doesnt mean I need to hold my opinions to the standard of presumption of innocence. because I am not involved with the case and have no duty to only evaluate the evidence.

Forensics and autopsy may hold the smoking gun. Until then people will speculate and offer their opinions. thats all this forum is

Yes, you and many are doing that. Others such as karmypolitics and classy are not. There is a difference in posting level between you and them despite all three of you siding with TM and thinking GZ's account is false.

You expressed your opinion you think his claim is false. You expressed you have concerns that the laws could be worded a bit different to have prevented this incident, although I don't see how, and that you feel actions that may have been taken my GZ despite his recounting of his actions states he did no such actions were the whole cause of this mess.

Fine and dandy. I personally don't believe or disbelieve GZ's story. I am just trying to compare pieces of evidence thus far "leaked" with his story to see what matches and what doesn't. I am also seriously pissed at how the media as a whole is handling this case as it has led to widespread stupidity all around. I'm also a little amused at posts by karmypoltics and classy that are so much hyperbole often enough that I remember what makes P&N fun sometimes :) Meaning people making outrageous and ridiculous claims because it fits their arguments or emotional state of mind.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
The Bill of Rights applies to all Americans and even all aliens in America, with some narrow exceptions. The Fourteenth Amendment specifically extended their precedence over state law, so in this case, following the state law IS the due process.

SYG is not in the US constitution. It is in FL law.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Based on the fact he hasn't been arrested I think the police and state investigators/attorneys already know this answer and it backs up Zimmerman's testimony.

You have more faith in the local police than I do.

I suspect the state prosecutor is taking their sweet time with this to ensure they cover everything, I wouldnt rule out anything based on the time lapse