Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
Looks like the little punk was a thug or at least wanted to be. Suspended 3 times in the past year? Marijuana, burglary tools, stolen womens jewelry? Zimmerman saved this punk from a life in prison it looks like.
That bottom picture is not him...at least find valid pictures, there's enough of them
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Lets also ignore had he waited for the cops who he knew were on the way vs get out of his car to go find him. He wouldnt be in his situation and Martin would be alive.

But what really started it, was the illegal/criminal activity. That would be the vicious assault/battery committed by Martin. If you get down to the root cause, the root cause MUST be criminal by nature. And the only crime committed is the attack by Martin.

It is not illegal for one to get out of their car and keep tabs on a suspicious person.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
A lot of folks who have gone through tramatic events, use the tragedy as a life purpose.

Maybe a foundation to change guns law, raisign money by sellign Shirts.

Hell John Walsh sure made a good living but I dont think he tried to profit from his sons Kidnapping and murder.
So she just wants to use it for propaganda then...that makes it much better:rolleyes:
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
And thats fine if the grand Jury and DOJ determine there was no crime I can accept that.

At that point I will support action to revist the law that allows it to happen in the first place.

This particular case has opened my eyes a bit on Gun law, I was a big supporter of stand your ground prior to this, not anymore.

When waiting for the police could have stopped this from happening, I feel its what the law should require.

I've been saying since the beginning SYG is the problem. It effectually encourages homicides by gun ho individuals.

Zimmerman would have never confronted whom he already thought was dangerous w/o the assurance he could stand his ground with his firearm if need be. He would have let the professionals handle it.
 
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corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
Zimmerman would have never confronted whom he already thought was dangerous w/o the assurance he could stand his ground with his firearm if need be. He would have let the professionals handle it.
And on what solid evidence do you base that opinion? Anything to back it up?
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Sure, why not ignore something that is in no way illegal and had it been a positive outcome would have not even made a headline in his town....when these things turn out well they are massively ignored

Just because something is currently legal doesnt mean it makes sense, was good judgement or shouldnt be changed.

Laws are repealed all the time, changed to be more in accordance with Public will.

I hope everyone who see this and senseless death that could have been avoided petitions the governments in their states for more sensible law.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
Just because something is currently legal doesnt mean it makes sense, was good judgement or shouldnt be changed.

Laws are repealed all the time, changed to be more in accordance with Public will.

I hope everyone who see this and senseless death that could have been avoided petitions the governments in their states for more sensible law.
Those laws came about so very recently because people wanted them and they were needed...sometimes laws are abused but the vast majority of the time they work as intended
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Those laws came about so very recently because people wanted them and they were needed...sometimes laws are abused but the vast majority of the time they work as intended

They came about because of Lobby and it will be lobby that undoes them.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
Never forget Richard Jewell (RIP), another overzealous safety officer who was wrongfully accused, tried, and convicted in the court of public opinion after saving many from the 1996 bombing during the Olympics at Continental Olympic Park in Atlanta.

When the obvious question of why the PD felt justified in letting Zimmerman go came up, others just jumped to the conclusion that they weren't justified and, thus, got outraged based on their own assumption. I thought "That's odd. There must be a reason. I wonder why they aren't yelling it from the roof-tops? Oh well. It will come out eventually and I will decide whether to be outraged or not then." My mind was blown at how long it took. If the PD deserves a vote of no confidence, it's because they created this PR sh_t storm when they only gave enough details to enrage the public instead of heading it off at the pass with full disclosure. Ridiculous. Now I see people using witness assumptions who, like us, did not see the attack, to remain enraged. A witness who heard screaming and then saw Trayvon dead and believes that Trayvon was the one being attacked has no more weight than anyone else making the same assumption from the same data, witness or no. Nothing they heard or saw contradicts Zimmerman nor the PD's accounting and yet people keep pointing me to one of the 911 transcripts. Are they incapable of logic and reason? The ONLY 911 witness accounting of the attack being observed BEFORE the shot describes Zimmerman on the ground and Trayvon attacking from above. Only the audio helps in the other recordings and that, too, supports Zimmerman's story (Trayvon's own father said they were not his son's screams). He would know more about who made those screams than any of the witnesses who didn't know him, so their assumptions have no merit what-so-ever and are pretty much expected to assume that when they see who is on the ground in the end.

I remember being the only one calling BS when that Prius had "unintended acceleration" in San Diego, the same city where the Toyota (a Lexus, actually) that tragically started the whole inquiry happened and, thus, where the general populace was more aware. I knew that the Prius was not susceptible to ANY of the multiple discovered or theorized unintended acceleration events and, thus, the guy was likely faking it due public opinion turning on Toyota and aiding any claims he may have. Sure enough, every news report I saw, heard, or read stated his claims as fact for several days, even on Anandtech's DailyTech newswire service. A few days later, it came out that he was behind on loans, bills, etc and had several hardships and faked it as a way out of his car loan and so that he could try to sue Toyota. That is EXACTLY what I thought. Yeah, I had no evidence, but neither did the news media so readily repeating his claims without labeling them as such.

STOP MAKING THIS MISTAKE! You should be ashamed to be so easily manipulated if you ever, for even one second, thought that Zimmerman and the police "must" be racist or cold-blooded murders even before the details were known. I immediately started thinking that Trayvon would have confronted his follower because that's what I would have done. From there, I could imagine a million scenarios where things could have escalated from what was originally a tragic misunderstanding and now a tragic case of justified self defense. To deny this is possible is willfully and shamefully ignorant because your only reason would be to assume racism and justify your misplaced outrage.

How long before someone wrongly implies that Trayvon was a victim of the establishment, like Sacco and Vanzetti? The more appropriate comparison is Zimmerman as the one railroaded by the new establishment: Media and mob justice. Heres to you, Zimmerman.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Just because something is currently legal doesnt mean it makes sense, was good judgement or shouldnt be changed.

Laws are repealed all the time, changed to be more in accordance with Public will.

I hope everyone who see this and senseless death that could have been avoided petitions the governments in their states for more sensible law.

If you viciously attack somebody, you should be doing so that knowing it may be the last thing you do with your life.

Maybe use the rallies to educate people "if you attack somebody, you might get dead, think about that before you viciously attack. If you knuck, know the other guy may have 00 buck."
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
They came about because of Lobby and it will be lobby that undoes them.
It will be outrage drummed up by fearmongering and manipulation of emotions over a tragic event that very well looks like at least a large portion of the blame lies with the "kid" who was killed....that is IF anything is changed which I have serious doubts
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Of course you wouldn't view it as such...but it most definitely is.

Well technically your posts and mine are too by definition propoganda.

But that doesnt mean the mean/will and desire for her to honor her sons memory, By trying to impact change that doesnt allow it to happen again is a negative thing.

Just in your opinion its negative.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
SYG was sold and passed to protect women who could not claim castle doctrine since their abusive husbands lived there too. Nor can she be expected to flee from tight quarters in her own house. So SYG made sense then but it's hardly applicable to confrontations you can avoid.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
It will be outrage drummed up by fearmongering and manipulation of emotions over a tragic event that very well looks like at least a large portion of the blame lies with the "kid" who was killed....that is IF anything is changed which I have serious doubts

I my opinion there should be outrage, this was avoidable, Had Martin kept running or the law not allowed Zimmermans Pursuit, there wouldnt be 6800 posts on here about it.

I dont think private citizens should take on law enforment rolls in pursuit of potentially armed people who may be on drugs.

I hope the outrage turns to action and people do everything they can to change the law.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Never forget Richard, f--king, Jewell, another overzealous safety officer who was wrongfully accused, tried, and convicted in the court of public opinion after saving many from the 1996 bombing during the Olympics at Continental Olympic Park in Atlanta.

When the obvious question of why the PD felt justified in letting him go came up, others just jumped to the conclusion that they weren't justified and, thus, got outraged based on their own assumption. I thought "That's odd. There must be a reason. I wonder why they aren't yelling it from the roof-tops? Oh well. It will come out eventually and I will decide whether to be outraged or not then." My mind was blown at how long it took. If the PD deserves a vote of no confidence, it's because they created this PR sh_t storm when they only gave enough details to enrage the public instead of heading it off at the pass with full disclosure. Ridiculous. Now I see people using witness assumptions who, like us, did not see the attack, to remain enraged. A witness who heard screaming and then saw Treyvon dead and believes that Treyvon was the one being attacked has no more weight than anyone else making the same assumption from the same data, witness or no. Nothing they heard or saw contradicts Zimmerman nor the PD's accounting and yet people keep pointing me to one of the 911 transcripts. Are they incapable of logic and reason? The ONLY 911 witness accounting of the attack being observed BEFORE the shot describes Zimmerman on the ground and Treyvon attacking from above. Only the audio helps in the other recordings and that, too, supports Zimmerman's story (Treyvon's own father said they were not his son's screams). He would know more about who made those screams than any of the witnesses who didn't know him, so their assumptions have no merit what-so-ever and are pretty much expected to assume that when they see who is on the ground in the end.

I remember being the only one calling BS when that Prius had "unintended acceleration" in San Diego, the same city where the Toyota (a Lexus, actually) that tragically started the whole inquiry happened and, thus, where the general populace was more aware. I knew that the Prius was not susceptible to ANY of the multiple discovered or theorized unintended acceleration events and, thus, the guy was likely faking it due public opinion turning on Toyota and aiding any claims he may have. Sure enough, every news report I saw, heard, or read stated his claims as fact for several days, even on Anandtech's DailyTech newswire service. A few days later, in came out that he was behind on loans, bills, etc and had several hardships and faked it as a way out of his car loan and so that he could try to sue Toyota. That is EXACTLY what I thought. Yeah, I had no evidence, but neither did the news media so readily repeating his claims without labeling them as such.

STOP MAKING THIS MISTAKE! You should be ashamed to be so easily manipulated if you ever, for even one second, thought that Zimmerman and the police "must" be racist or cold-blooded murders even before the details were known. I immediately started thinking that Treyvon would have confronted his follower because that's what I would have done. From there, I could imagine a million scenarios where things could have escalated from what was originally a tragic misunderstanding and now a tragic case of justified self defense. To deny this is possible is willfully and shamefully ignorant because your only reason would be to assume racism and justify your misplaced outrage.

Nice post. Well done.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
If you viciously attack somebody, you should be doing so that knowing it may be the last thing you do with your life.

Maybe use the rallies to educate people "if you attack somebody, you might get dead, think about that before you viciously attack. If you knuck, know the other guy may have 00 buck."

Yeah I'll take a different approach and do what I can to ensure the law does not allow Private Citizens to pursure potentially armed people on drugs.

Thats what law enforment is for.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
I've been saying since the beginning SYG is the problem. It effectually encourages homicides by gun ho individuals.

Zimmerman would have never confronted whom he already thought was dangerous w/o the assurance he could stand his ground with his firearm if need be. He would have let the professionals handle it.

I have no problem with the Castle Doctrine or “true man” doctrine practiced for almost all of US history/ But SYG was a major overstep.

The "true man" doctrine? LOL, what's a 99 pound weakling or a 99 year old person? saupposed to do to protect themselves?

What about women?
 
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nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
I my opinion there should be outrage, this was avoidable, Had Martin kept running or the law not allowed Zimmermans Pursuit, there wouldnt be 6800 posts on here about it.

I dont think private citizens should take on law enforment rolls in pursuit of potentially armed people who may be on drugs.

I hope the outrage turns to action and people do everything they can to change the law.

Yes, we neewd to keep the lynch mob riled up because you want gun control. We get it, that's why I won't be voting Democrat this year.

Give them an inch, they want a mile.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
SYG was sold and passed to protect women who could not claim castle doctrine since their abusive husbands lived there too. Nor can she be expected to flee from tight quarters in her own house. So SYG made sense then but it's hardly applicable to confrontations you can avoid.

How would it be avoidable if the incident that happened was as GZ described? That TM came from behind him, initiated contact, and then threw a sucker punch? In no way does SYG get legal justification to anyone looking to "pick a fight" in which they can justify shooting the person by provoking an attack by the person they which to shoot. To think that SYG defends that course of action is asinine.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
And lets just ignore the fact that he was just out running an errand and was a LAWFUL cc license holder...and while we're at it your "guide book" is another pointless deflection

You are right, Zimmerman acting beyond the bounds of accepted practices is a deflection.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
You are right, Zimmerman acting beyond the bounds of accepted practices is a deflection.
"Accepted practice" of whom? Some useless organization that wanted to try to make money by "registering" NW programs, which has no legal basis whatsoever?