Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

Page 272 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Treyvon supporters ransack Walgreens. What's a little harmless flash mob? I mean it's not like they're going to get shot for robbing the store...not this time it seems.

North Miami Beach Police are investigating after a group of high school students who walked out of school in protest of the Trayvon Martin shooting were caught on video ransacking a drug store last week.

The incident happened shortly before 11 a.m. Friday at the Walgreens at 1501 Northeast 163rd Street, minutes after between 400-500 North Miami Beach Senior High students walked out to protest the 17-year-old's shooting death in Sanford.

According to North Miami Beach Police, the protest was mostly peaceful and orderly with the exception of the 80-100 students who flooded into the Walgreen's store, ransacking shelving displays and breaking merchandise.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
ok, so what we know - is that Z calls 911 - at this point we can assume he's had an eye on Martin for some time and has been following him in his car...how long, we don't know

based on Z's 911 call, it's apparent that Martin becomes aware that Z is following him, and, from Z's own words - Martin runs - Z exits his car, and attempts to run/walk quickly to see where Martin went - at the end of the 911 call, it's apparent that Z has lost sight of Martin

at this point, it would seem that Martin gets on, or has been on, the phone with a girl - she hears Martin and Z talking to each other - albeit briefly.

This would imply that one of two things happened - Martin fled from the area that Z made the 911 call from - and returned to the same area - or, Martin fled that area and encountered Z at a different location.

I think anyone with common sense would think the latter scenario is much more likely, that Martin fled the scene that Z's 911 call was made from, and came across Z at a different location - because Zimmerman either continued his pursuit on foot, or got back to his car, drove, and again exited his vehicle to confront Martin.

Maybe the 'leaked' version of Z's story is missing details, but the story of Z getting out of his car, pursuing Martin, not finding him - returning to his car, and then getting attacked by Martin - it just doesn't add up.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
But we do have other evidence besides his account. Evidence which has been released. Although we don't know if all evidence has been released.

Evidence of eye witness testimony at various timelines along the incident. Both visual and audio witnesses.

Forensic evidence of the scene as well.

There is evidence out there. Some of which has been released and what we have been discussing.

The only really key points to this whole thing is the possibility of there being evidence that directly contradicts the account given thus far, and if that evidence was possibly covered up by the police, or not investigated properly in the first place. The fact we know of any evidence I find mind boggling at this point. As any case being built against someone is usually suppose to be kept on a need to know basis and not given to the media to cause these media style prejudgements from being cast. As was the case with the Duke Lacross team as an example given earlier.

So far, all the evidence released to the public has corroborated Zimmerman's account of the incident. Does that mean there is no evidence against his account we have not heard of yet? No, but that doesn't mean there is either. So to automatically speculate that Zimmerman is automatically guilty based upon the possibility of unknown or yet to be released evidence is stupid in my opinion.

with the department of justice investigating and grand jury convening on April 10th, I am sure if there was wrong doing they can charge him with they will.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
ok, so what we know - is that Z calls 911 - at this point we can assume he's had an eye on Martin for some time and has been following him in his car...how long, we don't know

based on Z's 911 call, it's apparent that Martin becomes aware that Z is following him, and, from Z's own words - Martin runs - Z exits his car, and attempts to run/walk quickly to see where Martin went - at the end of the 911 call, it's apparent that Z has lost sight of Martin

at this point, it would seem that Martin gets on, or has been on, the phone with a girl - she hears Martin and Z talking to each other - albeit briefly.

This would imply that one of two things happened - Martin fled from the area that Z made the 911 call from - and returned to the same area - or, Martin fled that area and encountered Z at a different location.

I think anyone with common sense would think the latter scenario is much more likely, that Martin fled the scene that Z's 911 call was made from, and came across Z at a different location - because Zimmerman either continued his pursuit on foot, or got back to his car, drove, and again exited his vehicle to confront Martin.

Maybe the 'leaked' version of Z's story is missing details, but the story of Z getting out of his car, pursuing Martin, not finding him - returning to his car, and then getting attacked by Martin - it just doesn't add up.


Actually, either of the two scenarios is plausible.

As stated, it could be that GZ decided to return, but TM saw he wasn't the cop he thought he was fleeing from. Since TM thought he was fleeing from a cop and wasn't he decides to confront the person on his tail.

Both make logical sense from different stand points.

The illogical consistency I see here is the phone call with the girlfriend. Supposedly she heard them both speaking with each other. That's one long phone call, supposedly for a short duration call, if it happened in a different location. Unless TM waited a long time before calling his GF over this issue. Which I doubt he did, but it is possible.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
You know the post you responded to with out of context babbling.

Sorry but I must have read at least 50 of your posts. I don't think my interpretation of what you asid is out of context in light of that, but I don't expect you to understand that. You've made you mind up and now must arrange the evidence to support your conclusion (since you know more then the police who are trained professionals and were actually on the scene).
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
You obviously haven't looked at the development, there's no "dead ends" or anyway he could have been cornered and just happened back upon Z, it had to be willful.

And if you're on your back and were carrying in the front as I do it would be very easy to draw with one hand and fire, even if there was a struggle for control of it

So I suppose Martin did not flee but rather hid. That would have to be the argument there.

Easy to draw just after having your nose broken, taken down to the concrete sidewalk, and having your head bashed multiple times by a young man with strength enough to knock you down with one punch in the first place? Shens...
 

MH2007

Senior member
Jun 26, 2007
830
0
0
So this is what Zimmerman wants you to believe.

He sees suspicious dude. Calls 911 and chases after him.

He meets suspicious dude. Dude says, "I'm going home to watch the all-star game"

Zimmerman, after calling 911 and after huffing and puffing after this guy just says, "okay" and goes back to his truck? After all of that? No way.

It's quite possible that he would have escorted Trayvon home, albeit more to confirm his story (which he would obviously find dubious) than as a favor. Keep in mind that Zimmerman's reputation as a watch captain amongst those that didn't particularly like him was that he was strict and overzealous, not that he was brutal.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
So I suppose Martin did not flee but rather hid. That would have to be the argument there.

Easy to draw just after having your nose broken, taken down to the concrete sidewalk, and having your head bashed multiple times by a young man with strength enough to knock you down with one punch in the first place? Shens...
Desperation and adrenalin...yeah it would be easily believable he could have drawn and fired

And you really need to get that image of a 12yo angel out of your head...
 
Last edited:

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
Guys, even if Zimmerman's story is true...dude still should get a trial. Too much is left to speculation, and if the grand jury does not do anything, I expect significant civil unrest. I mean, you guys heard about Jothana Carr, right? Her freakout was in large part triggered by the Trayvon Martin story.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
Guys, even if Zimmerman's story is true...dude still should get a trial. Too much is left to speculation, and if the grand jury does not do anything, I expect significant civil unrest. I mean, you guys heard about Jothana Carr, right? Her freakout was in large part triggered by the Trayvon Martin story.
This is the USA, we don't bow to terrorists and we don't charge someone with a crime without evidence a crime was committed...

And no I haven't heard about some chick freaking out...
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Sorry but I must have read at least 50 of your posts. I don't think my interpretation of what you asid is out of context in light of that, but I don't expect you to understand that. You've made you mind up and now must arrange the evidence to support your conclusion (since you know more then the police who are trained professionals and were actually on the scene).

I think identifying someone as looking like they are on drugs, having something in their wasteband acting odd, then deciding to pursue that person is reckless. Thats my opinion you dont have to like it or agree.

I also have the opinion that if the law allows that its needs to be reevaluated.

The grand Jury will evaluate all evidence I am comfortable with that.

At least you admit you brought your overall opinion to a post that had nothing to do with Spideys post I was responding too.

Its simple Spidey posts there is Evidence Zimmerman Turned back to go to his car. I reponded that the evidence he is reffering to is Zimmerman's statement. It was a clarification and you decided to respond with something that had nothing to do with that.

Its ok we dont agree but try and stick to topics being discussed instead of using them to vent your disagreement with 50 posts.
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
Guys, even if Zimmerman's story is true...dude still should get a trial. Too much is left to speculation, and if the grand jury does not do anything, I expect significant civil unrest. I mean, you guys heard about Jothana Carr, right? Her freakout was in large part triggered by the Trayvon Martin story.

Are you kidding me? You think he should go on trial even if it's true that HE was the victim of an assault? That's horrifying.

Re: civil unrest, bust out the water cannons and tear gas!
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
Are you kidding me? You think he should go on trial even if it's true that HE was the victim of an assault? That's horrifying.

Re: civil unrest, bust out the water cannons and tear gas!

How certain are you? 100%? I give it 70% at best.
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
3
0
I think identifying someone as looking like they are on drugs, having something in their wasteband acting odd, then deciding to pursue that person is reckless. Thats my opinion you dont have to like it or agree.

I also have the opinion that if the law allows that its needs to be reevaluated.

The grand Jury will evaluate all evidence I am comfortable with that.

At least you admit you brought your overall opinion to a post that had nothing to do with Spideys post I was responding too.

Its simple Spidey posts there is Evidence Zimmerman Turned back to go to his car. I reponded that the evidence he is reffering to is Zimmerman's statement. It was a clarification and you decided to respond with something that had nothing to do with that.

Its ok we dont agree but try and stick to topics being discussed instead of using them to vent your disagreement with 50 posts.


If I found out my neighborhood watch captain didn't do anything about someone who appeared to be on drugs, possibly had a gun in waistband, looked like a thug with thug attire, hid his face when someone drove by, and was running behind houses... I would probably vote him out.


I think there are NO problems with zimmerman confronting trayvon.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
If I found out my neighborhood watch captain didn't do anything about someone who appeared to be on drugs, possibly had a gun in waistband, looked like a thug with thug attire, hid his face when someone drove by, and was running behind houses... I would probably vote him out.


I think there are NO problems with zimmerman confronting trayvon.

He called the police thats what neighborhood watch captains are supposed to do.

There are many problems with confronting him as we found out.

Martin is dead and Zimmermans life will never be the same, simply allowing the police to handle it eliminates both negative consequences.
 

MH2007

Senior member
Jun 26, 2007
830
0
0
I know nothing about voiceprints. I just can't help but wonder if somehow his voice (or T's voice) could be eliminated as being the one in the recording?

Regarding the 911 call with the screams it is possible that the police have already asked him to scream while being recorded in order to compare his screaming to the sound on the call with the audible screaming and gunshot.

This would obviously have to be done without Zimmerman being able to hear the contents of the call so he could tailor his voice to that on the tape.

This actually makes me wonder why the Martin family hasn't released any recordings of Trayvon's voice. Presumably they could be able to produce a relatively recent voice mail or something similar if his voice actually sounds more like the screams on the 911 call. Or it might be that his voice is actually much deeper than Zimmerman's which would make the assertions of their most sympathetic supporting witness seem silly.

Which also makes me wonder again about the claims that the police were being coercive when they corrected witnesses that claimed that it was Trayvon who was screaming. Had those witnesses actually heard Trayvon speaking beforehand so that they had a frame of reference? Obviously not. So what were they basing their statement on? Oh right, stereotype and assumption that the screaming was from the younger party.
 

CLite

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2005
1,726
7
76
This is the USA, we don't bow to terrorists and we don't charge someone with a crime without evidence a crime was committed...

And no I haven't heard about some chick freaking out...

An unarmed teenager got shot to death on his walk back from a convenience store. Zimmerman ended Trayvon's life, that *should* be all the evidence required to start a trial. A killer should not get magical protection from the law when they are already at an advantage from having the last say in whatever altercation may or may not have transpired. Police should approach any homicide with a level of skepticism and a thirst for the truth, whether or not the murderer is screaming "it was self-defense" or is he/she is screaming "I killed the bastard for fun". The phrase "self-defense" being uttered should have no effect on the process of investigation, because then every single killer in Florida will just utter that phrase to get an automatic head-start.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Guys, even if Zimmerman's story is true...dude still should get a trial. Too much is left to speculation, and if the grand jury does not do anything, I expect significant civil unrest. I mean, you guys heard about Jothana Carr, right? Her freakout was in large part triggered by the Trayvon Martin story.

In order to have a trial he has to be charged with a crime. They don't have enough evidence to establish probable cause so I don't see that happening.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
In order to have a trial he has to be charged with a crime. They don't have enough evidence to establish probable cause so I don't see that happening.

Legally there are hurdles, no doubt.

But...it's just the right thing to do. That's all I have for you.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
I think identifying someone as looking like they are on drugs, having something in their wasteband acting odd, then deciding to pursue that person is reckless. Thats my opinion you dont have to like it or agree.

I also have the opinion that if the law allows that its needs to be reevaluated.

The grand Jury will evaluate all evidence I am comfortable with that.

At least you admit you brought your overall opinion to a post that had nothing to do with Spideys post I was responding too.

Its simple Spidey posts there is Evidence Zimmerman Turned back to go to his car. I reponded that the evidence he is reffering to is Zimmerman's statement. It was a clarification and you decided to respond with something that had nothing to do with that.

Its ok we dont agree but try and stick to topics being discussed instead of using them to vent your disagreement with 50 posts.

Zimmerman's testimony to the police is evidence. With other known facts it can be used against him as well as for him. Ergo it's evidence whether you like what he says or not.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I think identifying someone as looking like they are on drugs, having something in their wasteband acting odd, then deciding to pursue that person is reckless. Thats my opinion you dont have to like it or agree.

I also have the opinion that if the law allows that its needs to be reevaluated.

The grand Jury will evaluate all evidence I am comfortable with that.

At least you admit you brought your overall opinion to a post that had nothing to do with Spideys post I was responding too.

Its simple Spidey posts there is Evidence Zimmerman Turned back to go to his car. I reponded that the evidence he is reffering to is Zimmerman's statement. It was a clarification and you decided to respond with something that had nothing to do with that.

Its ok we dont agree but try and stick to topics being discussed instead of using them to vent your disagreement with 50 posts.

I don't see this going before a grand jury.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Zimmerman's testimony to the police is evidence. With other known facts it can be used against him as well as for him. Ergo it's evidence whether you like what he says or not.

I agree and was simply pointing out Spideys evidence was Zimmermans tesimony.