Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
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We need photographic evidence of everything...

I want to see photographs

  • The very last photographs of Trayvon Martin alive (mugging a lady for money to buy the skittles and Ice Tea preferably)
  • Photos of George Zimmerman's smashed nose and life threatening back of skull wounds
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Don't they have a recording of someone yelling for help? Couldn't they do a voiceprint and see if it was Zimmerman yelling for help and settle this whole mess?

They could, I imagine. From what I understand, there was a caller to 911 who already said Z was on the bottom with T above him during the physical fight.
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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It was Nancy Grace, not "the media". And the situations are entirely different. There was no technicality separating legal/illegal.

And for the record, I always thought it was a bogus charge. Accuser was inconsistent from the beginning.

There were plenty of articles in the days after the allegations were brought that judged the Duke players as guilty. It took a few weeks before they they started changing their tunes...

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/press_box/2006/04/trial_by_newspaper.html
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
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Don't they have a recording of someone yelling for help? Couldn't they do a voiceprint and see if it was Zimmerman yelling for help and settle this whole mess?
The recording isn't even as good as the one where everyone thinks Z is saying "coons"
 
Sep 7, 2009
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So in your own example explaining why it's plausible that Zimmerman was indeed headed back to his vehicle, you make implications as to why his own testimony is false from a different aspect. If Martin already exhibits a "flight" reaction to the encounter, corroborated by Zimmerman's testimony that he lost him and was returning to his vehicle, how does Martin change his mind from fleeing, and start a fight? Why?

Something is just off. Martin disappearing and reappearing, fleeing then attacking. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


One logical explanation is that trayvon thought zimmerman was a cop. It also explains why he didn't want to get ID'd.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
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One logical explanation is that trayvon thought zimmerman was a cop. It also explains why he didn't want to get ID'd.

Why would Martin switch from running to "viciously attacking" (tm spidey, all rights reserved) if he though Zimmerman was a cop? Seems completely counter intuitive.
 
Sep 7, 2009
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Why would Martin switch from running to "viciously attacking" (tm spidey, all rights reserved) if he though Zimmerman was a cop? Seems completely counter intuitive.


Perhaps when he was being followed he thought zimmerman was a cop in an unmarked car so he ran away. While watching from behind a bush, zimmerman got out to double check street names. Trayvon saw he wasn't a cop, so he attacked him.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
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Perhaps when he was being followed he thought zimmerman was a cop in an unmarked car so he ran away. While watching from behind a bush, zimmerman got out to double check street names. Trayvon saw he wasn't a cop, so he attacked him.

Ok. Thanks for clarification.
 

MH2007

Senior member
Jun 26, 2007
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So in your own example explaining why it's plausible that Zimmerman was indeed headed back to his vehicle, you make implications as to why his own testimony is false from a different aspect. If Martin already exhibits a "flight" reaction to the encounter, corroborated by Zimmerman's testimony that he lost him and was returning to his vehicle, how does Martin change his mind from fleeing, and start a fight? Why?

Something is just off. Martin disappearing and reappearing, fleeing then attacking. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

It makes sense if "flight" was not actually an attempt to get away but an attempt to avoid surveillance. That interpretation is much more consistent with Zimmerman's testimony. If Martin had fled and then hid between housing units and then approached Zimmerman from the "rear and left" as he walked back to his truck that would make Zimmerman's account internally consistent as well as consistent with the timeline as well as how the housing units are arranged.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
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The recording isn't even as good as the one where everyone thinks Z is saying "coons"

I know nothing about voiceprints. I just can't help but wonder if somehow his voice (or T's voice) could be eliminated as being the one in the recording?
 
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momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
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Why would Martin switch from running to "viciously attacking" (tm spidey, all rights reserved) if he though Zimmerman was a cop? Seems completely counter intuitive.

Hence why I don't think we are getting an accurate account from Zimmerman. Now maybe Martin ran into a dead end and had to return the way he left, and in doing so ran back into Zimmerman, thus re-entering the situation he had just ran from. Maybe Zimmerman knew the area better and managed to cut Martin off.

If Zimmerman can't be trusted to give an accurate account of the story then what is he hiding? I still am having trouble reconciling the fact that even though he clearly is losing the fight, he manages to draw his weapon on Martin and successfully fire. I doubt many here have been in that situation but I would imagine it's nearly impossible to be so soundly beat yet manage to draw your weapon without also losing that struggle as well.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
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Then quit acting like you do.... or perhaps you're the one being obtuse?

Im in no way acting or suggesting I know more than police, rather pointing out that Spideys evidence is Zimmerman account.

That doesnt even remote support your statement i am acting like I know more than police.

your statement was baseless and demonstrates your slow to understand (Obtuse)
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
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It makes sense if "flight" was not actually an attempt to get away but an attempt to avoid surveillance. That interpretation is much more consistent with Zimmerman's testimony. If Martin had fled and then hid between housing units and then approached Zimmerman from the "rear and left" as he walked back to his truck that would make Zimmerman's account internally consistent as well as consistent with the timeline as well as how the housing units are arranged.

That's possible. It's also why it's a shame that the only account of the story just happens to be the person who arose victorious from the struggle. No other evidence of the events leading up to the last moments of the fight/shooting so we are forced to either fit a story that fits his testimony, or do the opposite.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
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Hence why I don't think we are getting an accurate account from Zimmerman. Now maybe Martin ran into a dead end and had to return the way he left, and in doing so ran back into Zimmerman, thus re-entering the situation he had just ran from. Maybe Zimmerman knew the area better and managed to cut Martin off.

If Zimmerman can't be trusted to give an accurate account of the story then what is he hiding? I still am having trouble reconciling the fact that even though he clearly is losing the fight, he manages to draw his weapon on Martin and successfully fire. I doubt many here have been in that situation but I would imagine it's nearly impossible to be so soundly beat yet manage to draw your weapon without also losing that struggle as well.
You obviously haven't looked at the development, there's no "dead ends" or anyway he could have been cornered and just happened back upon Z, it had to be willful.

And if you're on your back and were carrying in the front as I do it would be very easy to draw with one hand and fire, even if there was a struggle for control of it
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
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So this is what Zimmerman wants you to believe.

He sees suspicious dude. Calls 911 and chases after him.

He meets suspicious dude. Dude says, "I'm going home to watch the all-star game"

Zimmerman, after calling 911 and after huffing and puffing after this guy just says, "okay" and goes back to his truck? After all of that? No way.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
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Im in no way acting or suggesting I know more than police, rather pointing out that Spideys evidence is Zimmerman account.

That doesnt even remote support your statement i am acting like I know more than police.

your statement was baseless and demonstrates your slow to understand (Obtuse)

LOL, you've stated he should be tried for reckless endangerment or whatever, so you obviously think your interpertation of events is more accurate then Zimmerman's and the police who investigated the scene and interviewed the witness.

You are the one who is slow.... slower then molasses in January.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
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So this is what Zimmerman wants you to believe.

He sees suspicious dude. Calls 911 and chases after him.

He meets suspicious dude. Dude says, "I'm going home to watch the all-star game"

Zimmerman, after calling 911 and after huffing and puffing after this guy just says, "okay" and goes back to his truck? After all of that? No way.
You're getting confused...

He calls 911 is talking to them while on foot
they say you don't need to do that he says ok and stops, presumably to return to vehicle
T approaches him and initiates a confrontation (according to GF) saying why you following me? to which Z responds what are you doing around here?
Struggle begins, "kid" gets shot

I don't see why Z would attack the "kid" right after asking him a question...however I could see the "kid" getting ticked off at being questioned why he was there and going off on the fat dude who wasn't respectin' him
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
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That's possible. It's also why it's a shame that the only account of the story just happens to be the person who arose victorious from the struggle. No other evidence of the events leading up to the last moments of the fight/shooting so we are forced to either fit a story that fits his testimony, or do the opposite.

But we do have other evidence besides his account. Evidence which has been released. Although we don't know if all evidence has been released.

Evidence of eye witness testimony at various timelines along the incident. Both visual and audio witnesses.

Forensic evidence of the scene as well.

There is evidence out there. Some of which has been released and what we have been discussing.

The only really key points to this whole thing is the possibility of there being evidence that directly contradicts the account given thus far, and if that evidence was possibly covered up by the police, or not investigated properly in the first place. The fact we know of any evidence I find mind boggling at this point. As any case being built against someone is usually suppose to be kept on a need to know basis and not given to the media to cause these media style prejudgements from being cast. As was the case with the Duke Lacross team as an example given earlier.

So far, all the evidence released to the public has corroborated Zimmerman's account of the incident. Does that mean there is no evidence against his account we have not heard of yet? No, but that doesn't mean there is either. So to automatically speculate that Zimmerman is automatically guilty based upon the possibility of unknown or yet to be released evidence is stupid in my opinion.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
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LOL, you've stated he should be tried for reckless endangerment or whatever, so you obviously think your interpertation of events is more accurate then Zimmerman's and the police who investigated the scene and interviewed the witness.

You are the one who is slow.... slower then molasses in January.

Yeah I have stated that as my opinion, I have also stated I am not sure if that applies under Florida law. I am not a legal expert and do not have the time to evaluate all of the law surrounding the case.

Just because my opinion is that he was reckless in pursuit doesnt mean that he can be legally charged with it and it in no way says I think I know more than the police.

I think my interipitation of events is spot on and lines up with the evidence whether or not that a crime or not is up for law enforcement to determine.

I have the luxury of forming opinions, the police can just evaluate the evidence.


If you want to disuss my previous posts thats fine but it has nothing to do with me pointing out Spideys evidence is Zimmermans statement, in regards to going back to his car.

You know the post you responded to with out of context babbling.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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You're getting confused...

He calls 911 is talking to them while on foot
they say you don't need to do that he says ok and stops, presumably to return to vehicle
T approaches him and initiates a confrontation (according to GF) saying why you following me? to which Z responds what are you doing around here?
Struggle begins, "kid" gets shot

I don't see why Z would attack the "kid" right after asking him a question...however I could see the "kid" getting ticked off at being questioned why he was there and going off on the fat dude who wasn't respectin' him

after he hangs up 911 he's lost for a minute or more. By his account he runs into Martin and they exchange words. AFTER EXCHANGING WORDS he turns around and then Martin attacks.

I do cannot envision him turning his back on this person he has just chased for 5 scary minutes.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
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after he hangs up 911 he's lost for a minute or more. By his account he runs into Martin and they exchange words. AFTER EXCHANGING WORDS he turns around and then Martin attacks.

I do cannot envision him turning his back on this person he has just chased for 5 scary minutes.

Nooooo.... After exchanging words, Trayvon punches him directly in the face, which could be the blow that broke his nose, or made it bleed anyway. This knocks Z to the ground, which is when T gets on top of him and begins the head slamming into the concrete. Nobody really knows what happened, but what you're describing is NOT what Z has stated according to articles I've read recently. Link
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
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after he hangs up 911 he's lost for a minute or more. By his account he runs into Martin and they exchange words. AFTER EXCHANGING WORDS he turns around and then Martin attacks.

I do cannot envision him turning his back on this person he has just chased for 5 scary minutes.
No he doesn't turn his back, again there's a shit ton of bad information out there. He was approached from behind after giving up the chase then T started talking to him (as confirmed by his GF's statement). The part about him just being attacked from behind is false...they spoke then the fight broke out but it was started by T...the talking that is not necessarily the fight, though that is what the known facts seem to point to
 

MH2007

Senior member
Jun 26, 2007
830
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That's possible. It's also why it's a shame that the only account of the story just happens to be the person who arose victorious from the struggle. No other evidence of the events leading up to the last moments of the fight/shooting so we are forced to either fit a story that fits his testimony, or do the opposite.

You could also consider the two questions that Martin's friend claims she heard before the phone cut out. (Apparently Zimmerman disputes her characterization of the verbal exchange before the physical altercation.)

Martin: "Why are you following me?"

Zimmerman: "What are you doing here?"

Keep in mind here that at this point Martin has asked a question and Zimmerman has responded with a question. He is following Martin because he wants to know his reason for being in the gated community.

According to the friend on the phone at this point the physical altercation took place.

Does it make more sense that Martin would refuse to respond to the question that questions his right to be where he is and attack Zimmerman?

Or does it make more sense that Zimmerman, who is now waiting for the answer to the question that he wanted enough that he had called the police to come apprehend the subject, would decide to now attack Martin instead of waiting for an answer?