Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
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Again, you are clearly showing not only your bias but overert hatred and can now be relegated to the same table with spidey.

I don't give a fuck if he is 7 foot tall, Zimmerman is an adult who can legally carry, Martin wasn't. The only way Martin stood a chance against Zimmerman would have been to carry an illegal firearm and boy you fanbois would have had a field day with that, fucking gangster thug.... Yet another added to the wanted to see this kid dead at all costs plonkfiles. Bye...


and how exactly was zimmerman to know the 6'3" guy wasnt old enough to carry? and since when does being a legal CCW holder make you a bad person?

I'm 30, and 5' 7". And see HS students all the time(work down the street from the HS) that look like adults, just as often as you see 18+ college kids that look like they should be old enough to drive

supposedly PD have eyewitness saying TM was giving Z a beat down when he was shot

and you dont need a gun to kill, if TM was really bashing his head into the sidewalk he could have easily killed Z.

the funniest to me in all this is how zimmerman is 'white' because he is half white, while even by appearance he is clearly latino, but hes white in the media to make an issue of it

this is looking like another media debacle, making news where it isnt
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
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I agree with this too. But if you're gonna go after someone you think is a thug, which he did, you better be built like a linebacker so you can handle it without having to kill them. Zimmerman put his portly self at risk and his only recourse was killing and he knew that too. That should be against the law.

This is why it should be at the very least manslaughter.

All you need to do to kill someone and get off free is get them to throw the first punch, and if there are no witnesses, you don't even need that.
 

Conscript

Golden Member
Mar 19, 2001
1,751
2
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Do you think you are being clever or making yourself look less pathetic? You are actually to the right of spidey on this, congrats! That's quite an accomplishment. Going to need more chairs, this thread is overloading the table...

whenever one is left without a valid position in an argument, often name calling and insults come to pass. I don't blame you or hold you personally responsible whatsoever, I'll just take yours as a concession that you actually agree, no matter how vile and conflicting with your inner liberal.
 
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Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
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I just want to make an important point here that I feel a lot of people are missing:

There are many who are upset at people digging into the details of Trayvon's past, why he was on suspension, did he attack a bus driver, history of drug use and theft/burglary as increasingly appears to be the case.

And then of course they're also upset that things like tattoos, gold grill in the mouth, posing for pics in a certain way, typing in a certain way on Twitter/Facebook, are being called attention to as well.

These people feel that it's unfair and trying to drag a dead person's reputation through the mud, but I disagree and here's why:

From the outset of this, one of the primary things that has been in contention is whether Zimmerman had any basis to view Trayvon as suspicious. That continues to be debated hotly now.

I feel the details of his past behaviors and general lifestyle, as well as certainly things like his appearance are of great significance in that debate.

I think we all know that there is a certain way of carrying one's self that goes along with that lifestyle, I'm not sure how common the sort of "pimp walk" thing is anymore, but even in the absence of that sort of extreme, there's a certain sort of "gangsta walk", maybe a hint of skittishness, this is why we have phrases like "looks suspicious" in the first place. WE ALL KNOW THIS. Every single one of you knows what I'm talking about right now it's just a question of whether you're going to be intellectually honest enough to admit it.

I'm not saying it's an exact science, and certainly when you come to things like tattoos, hoodies, weed, etc of course there are loads of perfectly wonderful people who partake of all those things (not so sure whether there are very many nice people with gold teeth or bags of stolen jewelry though)

There are plenty of nice people who make mistakes and run afoul of the law once or twice, thanks to intoxicants or temper issues or whatever, but if you caught them most days they'd be really pleasant to be around.

I've never used drugs or any sort of intoxicants myself in my 32 years but all of my friends partake heavily of weed, and alcohol, and I don't view them as any lesser for it. To each his own.

But in the context of a larger body of evidence, coupled with other factors, I do think the weed (especially at that age, on school grounds) tends to just pile on with the other stuff. In and of itself, not so bad. Coupled with other things emerging? It starts to paint a picture.

But yea, I've watched enough "cops" or just people first hand to know that habitual criminals or delinquent kids absolutely have a certain way they carry themselves which projects this, it conveys a familiarity with "getting away with shit" and slickly worming in and out of situations quickly, rapidly doing something shady, then moving along, etc, looking around to check first etc, there is just a certain aura to it.

So I think when you have a man like Zimmerman whose blood is literally being called for by most of the country, primarily on the basis of believing he heartlessly chose to gun down Emmanuel Lewis as Webster
webster2.jpg
I think it's entirely fair for there to be some pushback of people saying "hey wait now, here's what this individual actually looked like at the time of the incident, here's how tall he was, here are some things he was doing at his school, and how he presented himself. Here are some reasons and factors which might go toward making you understand why he was initially striking Z as suspicious."

I don't deny that Z's "suspicion-o-meter" is probably too easy to set off, but based on what we're finding out I'm increasingly convinced that Trayvon would've set off just about anyone's.

EDIT: Oh and one quick note, to whoever it was earlier who targeted me as "having just made this account to play in this thread" let me just say... I've been on the net since 1994 and BBS's before that, I've visited this site for many years, on rare occasion, I'm in the process of building a desktop PC right now (just need the vid cards and hard drives), I have forum registration dates elsewhere dating back to the 90's, and was a heavy IRC user since back in '95 or '94. I don't appreciate being treated as an interloper just because you don't agree with me on this issue, presumably everyone was inspired to register here for some reason at some time, just because you've forgotten yours doesn't change that. This issue is interesting enough to make this forum's largest thread in history and it can't be understood to also be interesting enough to inspire a few new registrants?
 
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corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
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For the record, none of what you just stated is a "fact". Supposition.
No according to what is KNOWN at this time those are facts from multiple witnesses which are the best available at this time...the only supposition is from people who didn't actually SEE anything and only HEARD part of it
and I asked questions based on your statement. You can't handle that? So which one of these questions is steeped in emotion??
I guess you did have a small part of your post that wasn't emotional...and him being a resident there it's likely he knew most if not all, in general the "kid" was suspicious so even if he didn't know them all that fact is the same. And you seriously have no clue what a NW is and how it works do you? It's not some para-military organization with a code of conduct and rules of engagement to be followed at all times, it's people who live in the community looking out for their community.


Damn time warps make it hard to catch all the replies...
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
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So I think when you have a man like Zimmerman whose blood is literally being called for by most of the country, primarily on the basis of believing he heartlessly chose to gun down Emmanuel Lewis as Webster
webster2.jpg

Z is a bastage who needs to die for thinking such a young, obviously nice, kid was doing anything wrong!
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
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For the record, none of what you just stated is a "fact". Supposition.

I have to read his campaigning through your quotes but I find it funny that these bastions of truth keep insisting Zimmerman was attacked. The only person who supports this claim is Zimmerman. No one knows but Zimmerman and I am inclined to let the grand jury decide if they believe him. No witness saw the initial confrontation, the start. His claims that he was walking back to the truck and was attacked from behind simply don't jive with where he told them his truck was parked and where the fight occurred and Martin was shot. Where's the truck? Lying next to Martin on the ground next to the street sign? No... some 100 yards away, around a corner parked past the Club House mailboxes where he told the dispatcher it was parked 1 minute before Martin was dead. His exact words, he was getting back into the truck after getting out to check the name of the street he was parked at when he was attacked from behind.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
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londojowo.hypermart.net
I think releasing GZ side of the story yesterday and comments from the new State's attorney in the past few days stating how difficult this case will be to charge/prosecute is preparing the public for the fact that no charges will ever be filed in this case.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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This is why it should be at the very least manslaughter.

All you need to do to kill someone and get off free is get them to throw the first punch, and if there are no witnesses, you don't even need that.

That's why I keep repeating if you don't want to get shot, then don't attack somebody. The gun has nothing to do with this, it's self defense. If somebody is on top of you beating your head in and you pick up a rock and bust their skull in, that's justifiable self defense as you were reasonably in fear of your life.

A single punch normally doesn't qualify. Now if that punch knocks you down and they come after you - THEN you can shoot.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
and how exactly was zimmerman to know the 6'3" guy wasnt old enough to carry?

Pretty easy.. his own words at the beginning of his 911 call:

He looks black... how old would you say he is...

late teens...



and does Martin keep getting taller btw?
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,314
9,170
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No according to what is KNOWN at this time those are facts from multiple witnesses which are the best available at this time...the only supposition is from people who didn't actually SEE anything and only HEARD part of it

I think you need to look up the definition for the word "fact". Just saying ...
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,641
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Sure...but not to assault them based on nothing more than their asking a question...which is what is being put forth at this time. And don't forget that he (according to his GF's initial statement) started the conversation with Z not the other way around.

I was referring to SpatiallyAware's point that TM could have diffused the situation by answering Z. But he didn't have to answer any question of him, which to me gets back to Z calling the police and letting them handle it.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
This is why it should be at the very least manslaughter.

All you need to do to kill someone and get off free is get them to throw the first punch, and if there are no witnesses, you don't even need that.

Yep. It's hard to argue self defense IMO if you put yourself in that position.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
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whenever one is left without a valid position in an argument, often name calling and insults come to pass. I don't blame you or hold you personally responsible whatsoever, I'll just take yours as a concession that you actually agree, no matter how vile and conflicting with your inner liberal.

Inner liberal who didn't and won't vote for inept Obama who has hunted since childhood and legally carries... but has never killed a 17 year old "thug". Yawn...
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
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Do we know yet where Zimmerman was holding his weapon?

It seems highly unlikely that the person winning the fight in such close quarters would fail to grab the gun he was "reached" for. He's close enough to bash his head on the ground, but he failed in reaching for the gun? It really doesn't make much sense.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
24
81
His claims that he was walking back to the truck and was attacked from behind simply don't jive with where he told them his truck was parked and where the fight occurred and Martin was shot. Where's the truck? Lying next to Martin on the ground next to the street sign? No... some 100 yards away, around a corner parked past the Club House mailboxes where he told the dispatcher it was parked 1 minute before Martin was dead. His exact words, he was getting back into the truck after getting out to check the name of the street he was parked at when he was attacked from behind.

Can you provide a link where Zimmerman is quoted as saying he was attacked from behind? From my understanding, the first blow, according to Zimmerman, was from the front, and that is the blow that likely broke, or at least caused GZ to have a bloody nose. GZ also claims this is the blow that knocked GZ onto his back, which allowed TM to get on top of him and slam the back of GZ's head into the concrete (sidewalk, I believe).

My source - Link. Look below the bolded "One-minute gap"

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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Pretty easy.. his own words at the beginning of his 911 call:

He looks black... how old would you say he is...

late teens...



and does Martin keep getting taller btw?

Late teens is not old enough to carry? Legally that is true. That doesn't mean GZ had no idea that TM wasn't carrying illegally.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
That's why I keep repeating if you don't want to get shot, then don't attack somebody. The gun has nothing to do with this, it's self defense. If somebody is on top of you beating your head in and you pick up a rock and bust their skull in, that's justifiable self defense as you were reasonably in fear of your life.

A single punch normally doesn't qualify. Now if that punch knocks you down and they come after you - THEN you can shoot.

For now. You can bet your bottom dollar laws will be rewritten if anything comes out of this.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
That young man was a young punk. It's clear now more and more is coming out. The parents have admitted he was suspended for them finding a baggie with marijuana residue in his bag on school grounds. They are denying he had any previous issues with any school despite going on record early on saying he had behavioral problems.

It's amazing how our average posting can be so influenced by the media.

It's clear that although Zimmerman pursued it was Martin that attacked him and began bashing his brains out. It's clear that it was Zimmerman's screams. This is all verified by witnesses.

However you have Crutcher (probably being paid) expanding her story everyday.




The really funny part is if Martin's real pictures were released on day one, he'd have lost 90% of his support. Many people still believe these are not his pictures though and simply 'Zimmerman' supporters creating fabrications.

It's all in the 150+ pages from his twitter and facebook what kind of young man Martin was.


What Martin Looked like has no bearing for me on what transpired. In fact the only thing I think matters is that a confrontation ensued and Martin was killed.

While I think Zimmerman had a right to defend himself it was his reckless behavior in pursuit that lead to the need to defend.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
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Do we know yet where Zimmerman was holding his weapon?

It seems highly unlikely that the person winning the fight in such close quarters would fail to grab the gun he was "reached" for. He's close enough to bash his head on the ground, but he failed in reaching for the gun? It really doesn't make much sense.
There was purportedly a struggle for the gun before he shot him...but I don't think it's been stated where he carried...I prefer and use appendix carry which would be a possibility given that he was on his back when he drew
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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For now. You can bet your bottom dollar laws will be rewritten if anything comes out of this.

I really doubt it. Once all the facts come out it will be clear this is a clear cut case of vicious attack and self defense. EXACTLY what the laws were written for. To protect the VICTIM of the attack, zimmerman.