Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[Londo_Jowo]

Conflicting accounts again...Z said he ran, T's GF said she was talking to T when Z walked up and talked to him, no mention of him saying he had just ran from somebody...how can those go together?

Who knows, maybe T ran around the corner and started walking again.

 

[soundforbjt]

Conflicting accounts again...Z said he ran, T's GF said she was talking to T when Z walked up and talked to him, no mention of him saying he had just ran from somebody...how can those go together?

Why would she mention something she already knew? She told T to run.

 

[classy]

Trevor Dooley in FL.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/31...Stand-Your-Ground-law-is-free-pass-for-murder

I'd say that in this instance, Dooley initiated the conflict. It appeared that the air force vet was getting the upper hand. Then Dooley shot him in front of an 8 year old girl and several other children.

I don't see how you can say Dooley is guilty but yet Zimmerman is innocent. You really are f'ed up.

 

[classy]

Conflicting accounts again...Z said he ran, T's GF said she was talking to T when Z walked up and talked to him, no mention of him saying he had just ran from somebody, also from her statement he just asked what he was doing around there, no mention of "why did you run?"...how can those go together?

Uh incorrect. Ziimerman said on the call he is running and I lost him, I believe he is headed toward the back entrance. The girl on the phone said the Trayvon told her he ran and he thinks he lost him. She told to run all the way home and he said I'll just walk. Thats when she said she heard Zimmerman's voice and the pushing start.

 

[corwin]

I don't see how you can say Dooley is guilty but yet Zimmerman is innocent. You really are f'ed up.

You don't read too good do you? Dooley pulled his gun out in front of multiple witnesses when nobody had laid a hand on him...sad

Why would she mention something she already knew? She told T to run.

Supposedly he ran before Z got out to talk to/chase him, she said she was talking to him when Z walked up...which is it did he run before Z got there or didn't he?

 

[corwin]

Uh incorrect. Ziimerman said on the call he is running and I lost him, I believe he is headed toward the back entrance. The girl on the phone said the Trayvon told her he ran and he thinks he lost him. She told to run all the way home and he said I'll just walk. Thats when she said she heard Zimmerman's voice and the pushing start

That must have been added later or left out of what I saw which didn't include those details...but again there's been so many versions of everything floating around who knows which are real anymore

 

[xplosiveone]

I don't see how you can say Dooley is guilty but yet Zimmerman is innocent. You really are f'ed up.

Totally agree.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
There's always a negative. They gave far more coverage to something Tom Hanks did back in 2004 rather then this case. Oh well some things never change.

I don't watch much Hannity, but I do know his show about politics, usually soley about politics.

The Sanford incident is big, that's likely why it was on, but it ain't politics.

Tom Hanks is in the news now because he just narrated a big Obama campaign infomercial that's in all the political news.

Fern

 

[werepossum]

Martin did run. Z mentions it in his 911 call.

My bad. I can't quite keep up with all the different and often conflicting accounts. Still, it changes nothing; Martin had no obligation to run and having run, had no obligation to continue running.

 

[soundforbjt]

You don't read too good do you? Dooley pulled his gun out in front of multiple witnesses when nobody had laid a hand on him...sad

Supposedly he ran before Z got out to talk to/chase him, she said she was talking to him when Z walked up...which is it did he run before Z got there or didn't he?

He ran before Z found him. Z even says this on the call.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

but again there's been so many versions of everything floating around who knows which are real anymore

I don't think we'll ever know the whole story of what happened though I hope once evidence and testimony is out for all to see we will have a better idea of whether it was self-defense or not.

 

[soundforbjt]

I don't watch much Hannity, but I do know his show about politics, usually soley about politics.

The Sanford incident is big, that's likely why it was on, but it ain't politics.

Tom Hanks is in the news now because he just narrated a big Obama campaign infomercial that's in all the political news.

Fern

Must be only on right wing shows, I've heard nothing about Tom Hanks.

 

[werepossum]

I don't watch much Hannity, but I do know his show about politics, usually soley about politics.

The Sanford incident is big, that's likely why it was on, but it ain't politics.

Tom Hanks is in the news now because he just narrated a big Obama campaign infomercial that's in all the political news.

Fern

I can't watch that show since Colmes left. I didn't like Colmes and didn't watch it often anyway, but the few times I've caught parts of it since it was essentially an echo chamber. Hardly any point to watching it. I think right now based on things I've heard him say on the radio that he's vetting Obama on TV right now. Which is stupid because in November Obama will have been President for almost four years; he can and should be judged primarily on his record.

 

[nobodyknows]

Keep hugging this murderer's nuts...

LOL, that comment is total BS.

 

[classy]

That must have been added later or left out of what I saw which didn't include those details...but again there's been so many versions of everything floating around who knows which are real anymore

No its the same versions. You only want to regurgitate the the false slop that says Trayvon is guilty. If the the "temporary" resigning of the police chief doesn't shed some light on what you refuse to acknowledge, nothing will.

 

[nobodyknows]

I never said my opinion was the only one that matters. You have a right to your own.

You should, moreover, feel free to defend your opinion. Explain to us why it's acceptable for the police to conduct a half-assed investigation of a homicide because the killer claims self-defense. (Or, more precisely, following the chain you were responding to, not to treat Mr. Zimmerman as a "suspect," despite his having killed someone, because he claimed self-defense.) I find this opinion dangerously naive to the point of absurdity (who would not claim self-defense if this were the rule the police were guided by?), but perhaps you can convince me or someone else that I'm wrong and you're right.

If that is not actually your position (though I understand it to be), tell me how I'm misstating it and what you actually meant.

I guess it's your opinion that it was a half assed investigstion, but it appears to still be going on?? Perhaps you, like so many other posters here are have already dexcided the Z is guilty?

As you said, it's going to be up to a grand jury or a court to decide.

 

[nobodyknows]

My bad. I can't quite keep up with all the different and often conflicting accounts. Still, it changes nothing; Martin had no obligation to run and having run, had no obligation to continue running.

Running would just make him appear guilty of something.

 

[ChunkiMunki]

this blows my mind. A large man pursues a teen at night, confronts him, escalates a violent encounter, shoots and kills the boy, and claims self-defense? The police show up and find an unarmed victim and say, "good job, citizen" ?? UNBELIEVABLE!

 

[Londo_Jowo]

If the the "temporary" resigning of the police chief doesn't shed some light on what you refuse to acknowledge, nothing will.

The Police chief temporarily resigning is nothing more than getting the media off the city of Sanford's ass. The evidence and testimony will determine where this case goes.

 

[OCNewbie]

this blows my mind. A large man pursues a teen at night, confronts him, escalates a violent encounter, shoots and kills the boy, and claims self-defense? The police show up and find an unarmed victim and say, "good job, citizen" ?? UNBELIEVABLE!

There is no proof that Z "escalates a violent encounter". There is proof he was involved in some sort of physical struggle, but who did the escalating is not clear in any of the evidence that has been publicly released.

 

[kyp275]

This thread is growing at a speed faster than I cared to follow, but I saw a post in another forum that I browse which expresses how I feel about this issue much more eloquently than I can.




"Yes. He should be condemned for what he did. He should have stayed in his car. He took action against an individual on a public street who was walking home from the store. That individual is now dead. Zimmerman may not be criminally liable. The chain of events that starts with him patrolling the neighborhood in his car and ends with a dead kid may in fact, have enough attenuation in time and enough aggression on the part of the kid to prevent criminal charges against Zimmerman. None of us know for sure one way or the other, and it is clear that with the national attention being paid to this incident, there will be a full vetting of the facts.

All of that, however, is to lose sight of the primary point here. Zimmerman, who had no police authority whatsoever, deliberately started a chain of events that ended with the death of a kid who went out at half time for skittles. According to the unredacted tape posted earlier, Zimmerman doesn't get out of his vehicle until after he says "oh shit, he's running." He then gets out and pursues the kid.

Why? The kid took off. Zimmerman gets out of his vehicle to go find the kid. Why? The kid has a right to be on the street there. What possible justification does Zimmerman have for doing this. He's called the police. They are on their way. The police dispatcher has recommended that he not pursue. He has his vehicle and could continue to cruise around in it if he wanted to. Zimmerman had every ability to just give up at that point. He even says that he lost sight of the kid. Fine. At that point, wait for the police, make a report and be done with it. But he doesn't do that. He keeps going. It's a public area. It's not Zimmerman's job to secure it. It's not Zimmerman's private property.

Zimmerman made a whole series of really bad decisions. Because of those decisions a kid is dead. Even if that isn't criminal, it's whole buckets of wrong, and thus, he should be condemned.

If anyone posted a story here that he had acted like Zimmerman did, that person would be roundly screamed at by the membership. In fact, if you think back, we had a thread a couple of months ago where someone bragged that they had confronted a snooper at their girlfriend's apartment and that he ran off, but our intrepid hero had his Kimber in his hand and was prepared to use it. We beat that guy like a $5 mule for being an asshat.

Zimmerman behaved like a fool with tragic consequences. He was a fool with a gun, and like it or not, that affects all of us negatively."

.
.
.
.

"No, not really. Nope, I don't feel better at all. I am trying to understand why some posters think this is ok or somehow not a big deal. I live in central Florida, not too far from Sanford and I can assure you that it is a huge deal here.

I don't follow why, when Zimmerman did so many stupid things and a kid ended up dead, so many posters in this thread think it's ok.

I haven't advocated that he be arrested, charged or convicted of anything. I have expressly noted that until the investigation is completed, and possibly not even then, will there be sufficient hard evidence to charge him with a crime. I have not called him a racist even though certain of his tape recorded statements may lead to that supposition. I have called him an over-zealous, cop wannabe idiot who exceeded any possible authority he had. I have accused him of making bad decisions at virtually every stage of this tragedy. Those bad decisions lead to the death of a human being.

You might note that I have also not referred to the victim as an "innocent kid". I have no idea if the kid is innocent or not. I don't know if the kid initiated contact with Zimmerman after he first ran away and Zimmerman went looking for him. I don't know what happened at the final confrontation at all.

And I don't need to know, because this situation should never have gotten to the final confrontation. If Zimmerman had behaved in a responsible way, he would just be an irritating neighborhood watch weenie who called 911 46 times in the prior year.

This case is a tragedy. This kid had no police record. He was returning to the home of his father's girlfriend to watch the remainder of the NBA All-Star Game with his dad. He's dead. As the Clash would say, "dead for ever" and he shouldn't be.

We all get caught up in gun rights and gun advocacy and we all want the right to defend ourselves and our property. I agree with these rights and exercise them myself. But we won't have these rights for long if we are cavalier about the impact of situations like this on the voting public.

I guess part of the issue is that I see what Zimmerman did as being fundamentally indefensible even if technically legal. I also have kids in their mid to late teens and I would hate to have them end up dead from a completely avoidable situation. By his actions, Zimmerman caused a tragedy, killing an apparently decent kid who was on his way to spend time with his family.

In addition to the fact that a kid is dead and the unbearable pain the deceased's family must be going through, I think that this will have a negative effect on gun laws and gun rights in Florida. We almost got open carry last year and things like this won't help. Insurance companies will now be all over homeowner associations concerning things like neighborhood watch patrols. There may well be legislation coming about neighborhood watch patrols. There will probably be legislation introduced to weaken the stand your ground law. None of this is good and all of it is a result of bad decision making."

 

[blankslate]

This thread is growing at a speed faster than I cared to follow, but I saw a post in another forum that I browse which expresses how I feel about this issue much more eloquently than I can.




"Yes. He should be condemned for what he did. He should have stayed in his car. He took action against an individual on a public street who was walking home from the store. That individual is now dead. Zimmerman may not be criminally liable. The chain of events that starts with him patrolling the neighborhood in his car and ends with a dead kid may in fact, have enough attenuation in time and enough aggression on the part of the kid to prevent criminal charges against Zimmerman. None of us know for sure one way or the other, and it is clear that with the national attention being paid to this incident, there will be a full vetting of the facts.

All of that, however, is to lose sight of the primary point here. Zimmerman, who had no police authority whatsoever, deliberately started a chain of events that ended with the death of a kid who went out at half time for skittles. According to the unredacted tape posted earlier, Zimmerman doesn't get out of his vehicle until after he says "oh shit, he's running." He then gets out and pursues the kid.

Why? The kid took off. Zimmerman gets out of his vehicle to go find the kid. Why? The kid has a right to be on the street there. What possible justification does Zimmerman have for doing this. He's called the police. They are on their way. The police dispatcher has recommended that he not pursue. He has his vehicle and could continue to cruise around in it if he wanted to. Zimmerman had every ability to just give up at that point. He even says that he lost sight of the kid. Fine. At that point, wait for the police, make a report and be done with it. But he doesn't do that. He keeps going. It's a public area. It's not Zimmerman's job to secure it. It's not Zimmerman's private property.

Zimmerman made a whole series of really bad decisions. Because of those decisions a kid is dead. Even if that isn't criminal, it's whole buckets of wrong, and thus, he should be condemned.

If anyone posted a story here that he had acted like Zimmerman did, that person would be roundly screamed at by the membership. In fact, if you think back, we had a thread a couple of months ago where someone bragged that they had confronted a snooper at their girlfriend's apartment and that he ran off, but our intrepid hero had his Kimber in his hand and was prepared to use it. We beat that guy like a $5 mule for being an asshat.

Zimmerman behaved like a fool with tragic consequences. He was a fool with a gun, and like it or not, that affects all of us negatively."

.
.
.
.

"No, not really. Nope, I don't feel better at all. I am trying to understand why some posters think this is ok or somehow not a big deal. I live in central Florida, not too far from Sanford and I can assure you that it is a huge deal here.

I don't follow why, when Zimmerman did so many stupid things and a kid ended up dead, so many posters in this thread think it's ok.

I haven't advocated that he be arrested, charged or convicted of anything. I have expressly noted that until the investigation is completed, and possibly not even then, will there be sufficient hard evidence to charge him with a crime. I have not called him a racist even though certain of his tape recorded statements may lead to that supposition. I have called him an over-zealous, cop wannabe idiot who exceeded any possible authority he had. I have accused him of making bad decisions at virtually every stage of this tragedy. Those bad decisions lead to the death of a human being.

You might note that I have also not referred to the victim as an "innocent kid". I have no idea if the kid is innocent or not. I don't know if the kid initiated contact with Zimmerman after he first ran away and Zimmerman went looking for him. I don't know what happened at the final confrontation at all.

And I don't need to know, because this situation should never have gotten to the final confrontation. If Zimmerman had behaved in a responsible way, he would just be an irritating neighborhood watch weenie who called 911 46 times in the prior year.

This case is a tragedy. This kid had no police record. He was returning to the home of his father's girlfriend to watch the remainder of the NBA All-Star Game with his dad. He's dead. As the Clash would say, "dead for ever" and he shouldn't be.

We all get caught up in gun rights and gun advocacy and we all want the right to defend ourselves and our property. I agree with these rights and exercise them myself. But we won't have these rights for long if we are cavalier about the impact of situations like this on the voting public.

I guess part of the issue is that I see what Zimmerman did as being fundamentally indefensible even if technically legal. I also have kids in their mid to late teens and I would hate to have them end up dead from a completely avoidable situation. By his actions, Zimmerman caused a tragedy, killing an apparently decent kid who was on his way to spend time with his family.

In addition to the fact that a kid is dead and the unbearable pain the deceased's family must be going through, I think that this will have a negative effect on gun laws and gun rights in Florida. We almost got open carry last year and things like this won't help. Insurance companies will now be all over homeowner associations concerning things like neighborhood watch patrols. There may well be legislation coming about neighborhood watch patrols. There will probably be legislation introduced to weaken the stand your ground law. None of this is good and all of it is a result of bad decision making."

well Kyp I agree with much of what the poster said... however as good as I believe the post was it *will not* sway people who tend to want to justify this as a "good shoot"

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I guess it's your opinion that it was a half assed investigstion, but it appears to still be going on?? Perhaps you, like so many other posters here are have already dexcided the Z is guilty?

As you said, it's going to be up to a grand jury or a court to decide.

The problem is that the police only get one chance to perform an initial investigation. The first interview of a suspect is key, and they let a narcotics detective interview Mr. Zimmerman. Apparently the interview was done through leading questions, which are intrinsically suggestive and thus ineffective at eliciting information. The police did not request blood or breath samples, meaning we can't know whether Zimmerman was under the influence of substances. The police also did not examine Zimmerman's car for the presence of drugs or open containers. These are not things that can now be corrected through further investigation. It also appears the police failed to listen closely to Zimmerman's initial 911 call, and thus missed the "fucking coons" comment. None of these strike me as the hallmarks of a brilliant investigation.

 

[nobodyknows]

This case is a tragedy. This kid had no police record. He was returning to the home of his father's girlfriend to watch the remainder of the NBA All-Star Game with his dad. He's dead. As the Clash would say, "dead for ever" and he shouldn't be.

But he is "dead for ever" and I don't think all the blame lies at the feet of Z. Let the investigation into the facts of this case continue.

 

[nobodyknows]

well Kyp I agree with much of what the poster said... however as good as I believe the post was it *will not* sway people who tend to want to justify this as a "good shoot"

Or people who have decided that Z is a cold-blooded murderer.