Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
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Latest news:
ABC News also learns that Zimmerman violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, which states, “it should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles.”
The state attorney in Seminole County, Fla., announces that a grand jury will review the evidence of the case on April 10.
March 20: Sanford police department admits to ABC News that investigators missed a possible racist remark by the shooter as he spoke to police dispatchers moments before the killing.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-of-events/
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
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Did the girlfriend really wait until just recently to tell anyone about what she heard? Seems strange. You would think after hearing the she would be eager to make sure there was justice for her bf. She didin't go to the police right away?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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I listen to a talk show hosted by a lawyer who quit the profession in perhaps the last 5 years and his assertion is that a D.A. has a lot of leeway in the evidence presented to a Grand Jury.

I recall that he said a D.A. could get a Grand Jury to indict a block of cheese.

Maybe we can get Don Vito Corleone to confirm or deny.
This is true. My wife worked in the courthouse and later for lawyers, and was good friends with the D.A.'s office as well as the defense attorneys. Grand juries see only what the D.A. presents; there is usually no voice for the defense, so a good D.A. can indict pretty much anyone. There are however ethics rules that he violates at his own risk. The D.A.'s testimony is sworn, so he can't lie, but he is the sole arbiter of what is admissible and what is pertinent to the grand jury. That's obviously a huge advantage. The sheriff can also present evidence directly to the grand jury and ask for a true bill, bypassing the D.A.

That's for Tennessee; I believe there are some jurisdictions where the accused has a right to be present and to testify. (That may even be true in Tennessee, but I've never seen it done.)
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,581
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Did the girlfriend really wait until just recently to tell anyone about what she heard? Seems strange. You would think after hearing the she would be eager to make sure there was justice for her bf. She didin't go to the police right away?

Are you sure that her parents were so eager for her to go public? who can tell? Maybe her parents wanted her to be quiet and she threatened to go public and reveal her name... can't tell.

It's hard to say, considering the lengths a parent will go to protect a child.
 

CLite

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2005
1,726
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Did the girlfriend really wait until just recently to tell anyone about what she heard? Seems strange. You would think after hearing the she would be eager to make sure there was justice for her bf. She didin't go to the police right away?

I'm pretty sure an article was previously linked that said she tried to reach out earlier but police didn't want to hear her testimony. Although with the 3000+ posts I can't find it atm.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
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I think that a young kid (sorry 6'3 man) walking in a gated community who has a history of break-ins, who makes a point to hide his face when I drive by indicates that he is suspicious - period.



I'm not really sure you're asking, but I'm not 'suggesting' anything.

When did Zimmerman drive by him? Jesus, make up more crap.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
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Are you sure that her parents were so eager for her to go public? who can tell? Maybe her parents wanted her to be quiet and she threatened to go public and reveal her name... can't tell.

It's hard to say, considering the lengths a parent will go to protect a child.

there was something about her being hospitalized shortly afterwards, due to being traumatized by the whole experience.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
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Yeah, I've heard that claim.

If true and that is indeed bad police procedure, sounds more to me like a problem of an incompetent detective, and not necessarily a problem that he was a narcotics detective. Narcotics is tough, it ain't like he would have been an inexperienced meter maid.

I don't why see people act like narco duty is some fluff stuff. They are arresting dealers etc, some of whom are killers and they have to question them etc.

Fern

And why you don't have a narcotics detectives questioning someone that was involved with some one dying. You would stick him in the back of the car and wait for the proper person to come to speak to him.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Did the girlfriend really wait until just recently to tell anyone about what she heard? Seems strange. You would think after hearing the she would be eager to make sure there was justice for her bf. She didin't go to the police right away?

There's a lot strange stuff, too much.

E.g., when I read the girls testimony yesterday it said she was so upset by the call the had to go to the hospital. I can see that if she knew he was killed that night.

Then I read today that Martin's family didn't know he was killed till the following day.

The news article makes it sound like the girlfriend went to the hospital that night after the call because she was upset at his death. That sounds reasonable, except we now know she couldn't have known of his death that night.

Fern
 
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Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
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I played football with a boy who was 6'-1" and 120 lbs, who in high school was probably 140 or 150. (And unlike me, he was damned good.) Tall and thin doesn't mean he can't play high school football if he's good and can take a hit, especially in the smaller schools.

Except he didn't play high school football, he played youth football(Pop Warner, pre-high school).
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Regarding the conversation between M and Z.

I thought the first version had M asking Z "why are you following me?", to which Z responded "who are you?"

(I.e., M speaks first.)

Now some of us were wondering why Z didn't answer with "because I'm with the NW program" etc. instead of responding with "who are you".

Now I see this:

Crump, relaying the girl's description of the conversation with Trayvon as the confrontation heats up, says, "She hears other voice, 'What are you doing around here?' Trayvon says, 'Why are you following me?'" At that point, according to the girl, Travyon is pushed and his voice changes.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...-on-cellphone-when-he-was-shot/1#.T2pnetnkW9s

In this version, M doesn't speak first.

Z speaks first.

Since immediately after M speaks asking "why are you following me" the phone cuts off, we now don't know that Z didn't answer "neighborhood watch".

Maybe not a big thing, but details can make a difference.

Edit: Here's the version which has the conversion in the opposite order: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/unarmed_florida_teen_shot_to_d.html

Fern
 
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Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
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Or the available evidence points to self defense and the police can't manufacture new evidence in order to prosecute someone and appease the black community?

They now have the GF's phone call with Martin which the Sanford police did not have. The time of the phone call can help piece together the time line of what happened and possibly refute Zimmerman's story.

Did the girlfriend really wait until just recently to tell anyone about what she heard? Seems strange. You would think after hearing the she would be eager to make sure there was justice for her bf. She didin't go to the police right away?

Doesn't matter, the phone call did occur at the time of the incident. The Sanford Police neglected to check to see if any calls were made from it.
 
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micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
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The girl likely is telling the truth.

Why? Because if she were not telling the truth, she could have blown the entire thing up.

All she would have had to do would be to claim that Z used a racial slur, if she really wanted to lie or affect the investigation. She quoted Z as saying "what are you doing here" which IMO fits in with Z's character. The question is too aggressive, but it is in line with his past history of neighborhood watchman.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
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If there's a scuffle, the earset would likely fall off, ending the call or possibly only its legibility.

I mean, the only way to disconnect an iPhone call is to hit "end call" on the screen. I would have expected her to hear the entire thing, since the headset would have dropped and the call still on.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
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The girl likely is telling the truth.

Why? Because if she were not telling the truth, she could have blown the entire thing up.

All she would have had to do would be to claim that Z used a racial slur, if she really wanted to lie or affect the investigation. She quoted Z as saying "what are you doing here" which IMO fits in with Z's character. The question is too aggressive, but it is in line with his past history of neighborhood watchman.

Yeah, if she and Martin's lawyers wanted to, they could have easily come up with a conversation that was incriminating of Zimmerman.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
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I mean, the only way to disconnect an iPhone call is to hit "end call" on the screen. I would have expected her to hear the entire thing, since the headset would have dropped and the call still on.

Dude, you are really speculating here. iPhone? Nowhere is there any mention of the kind of phone. Heck, if it fell out of his hand during the scuffle, did the police even find the phone afterwards? If they did and didn't check it for phone calls/etc, huge problem for the Police oversight of the incident.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
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any lawyers? The girl on the cell phone, I believe her testimony contradicts Z's alibi. Since Z states that he had turned around when M attacked him, while the girl states that the fight started while they were facing each other.

Is this enough to arrest Z?

Let her give a sworn testimony, for now it's hearsay. For now her words are not evidence. I say let her be interviewed, without an attorney present, like zimmerman. And then have that testimony sworn in, understanding the full consequences of giving false statements to police.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
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Dude, you are really speculating here. iPhone? Nowhere is there any mention of the kind of phone. Heck, if it fell out of his hand during the scuffle, did the police even find the phone afterwards? If they did and didn't check it for phone calls/etc, huge problem for the Police oversight of the incident.

His mom speculated he was using his iPhone.