Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
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You don't get to use force on somebody not committing a crime like being followed by a NW who has every legal reason to be there.

You do get to use force when somebody is assaulting you (martin assaulting zimmerman is a felony).

Zimmerman grabbing Martin to stop him from running. Assault.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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Again with the "criminal act" strawman. I'm not claiming that it was. Merely that Zimmerman did in fact get out of his own car and chase Martin.

pay attention. only a provable criminal act by Z can invalidate SYG and lead to an arrest. the chase is not a criminal act and so does not invalidate SYG
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
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As soon as Zimmerman got out of the car, he initiated that Martin needed to defend himself. If Martin had had a gun according to the idiot law, he would have been well within his rights to blast away.

Stupid macho wild west laws promoted by the NRA and ALEC.

Exactly.

You have offense and defense. The killer was clearly the offensive party since he was stalking the victim and initiating the confrontation even after he was told by law enforcement to stay away.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,314
9,170
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pay attention. only a provable criminal act by Z can invalidate SYG and lead to an arrest. the chase is not a criminal act and so does not invalidate SYG

You need to pay attention to what conversation you're addressing/quoting. The current quote chain between us has nothing to do with how you're responding. Go back and check.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Again with the "criminal act" strawman. I'm not claiming that it was. Merely that Zimmerman did in fact get out of his own car and chase Martin.

What evidence do you have of a chase? So far the only evidence is a follow. Then Martin approaching zimmerman, "what's your problem", then beating zimmerman.
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
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stalking is a pattern of behavior over a length of time. This all happened within 30 minutes.

Stalking is a commonly used term accurately describing what the killer was doing. He was stalking his victim. He called the police and failed to stay in his car despite them telling him to do so. He then killed a child.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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Exactly.

You have offense and defense. The killer was clearly the offensive party since he was stalking the victim and initiating the confrontation even after he was told by law enforcement to stay away.

He was NOT told by law enforcement to stay away. Where are you guys making this shit up from? Your head? The media?
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
Stalking is a commonly used term accurately describing what the killer was doing. He was stalking his victim. He called the police and failed to stay in his car despite them telling him to do so. He then killed a child.

Look, if following a suspicious person were stalking, then every store owner in the country would be guilty of following potential shoplifters in their store.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,314
9,170
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What evidence do you have of a chase? So far the only evidence is a follow. Then Martin approaching zimmerman, "what's your problem", then beating zimmerman.

That is a mighty fine hair you're trying to split with chase/follow.

911 call from Zimmerman. He gets out of his car on his own, is noticeably winded shortly thereafter. Admits to the dispatcher that he is running after Martin.

Martin call to girlfriend, she suggests he run from him. Martin says I'll walk fast away.

Shooting happened a distance away from Zimmerman's car. You do the math.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
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What evidence do you have of a chase? So far the only evidence is a follow. Then Martin approaching zimmerman, "what's your problem", then beating zimmerman.

He told police I'm going after him followed by heavy breathing.

Do you think Z just decided to break out his Darth Vader imitation for the cops??
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,314
9,170
136
He was NOT told by law enforcement to stay away. Where are you guys making this shit up from? Your head? The media?

So the dispatcher telling him not to follow Martin on the 911 call is "making this shit up"??? I want to know what hallucinogens you're on.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
136
Look, if following a suspicious person were stalking, then every store owner in the country would be guilty of following potential shoplifters in their store.

Except T wasn't doing anything suspicious. We have proof T felt his life was being threatened.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
hypotehtical: you drop your wallet. Good samaritan picks up your wallet and chases after you to return it. You are afraid of him, so you run away.

Is he guilty of a crime?
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
You don't get to use force on somebody not committing a crime like being followed by a NW who has every legal reason to be there.

You do get to use force when somebody is assaulting you (martin assaulting zimmerman is a felony).

You channeling again? Must be great to be in touch with the other side.