Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
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Well, that's dwelling on a 1% thing. Would a drug test really change what we know? I hope you're glad that when they arrived they put Zimmerman at gunpoint. I am.

It might if Zimmerman was drunk or high, his self defense claim wouldn't stand. There's no reason for them not to test Zimmerman...unless...
 
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micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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Z is guilty of murder due to racial profiling because...

When the 911 call was made T was doing nothing to indicate suspicious behavior. T was walking in a hoodie with his head covered. The only identifiable feature Z could id was T is black. At that point it could have been one of the people from the neighborhood. He wasn't quite sure since he probably only saw his hands. Thinking T was maybe black was enough of a reason for him to call 911.

Later in the call he positively identified T as black when T turned towards him. At that moment I'm assuming T in the mind of Z is an black male not from the neighborhood.

Being an unknown possible black person was enough for Z to call 911. Definately being a black male non resident was enough of a reason for Z to get out of his car against the wishes of township authorities chase T and kill him.

Z didn't even take in to account that T could be a visitor not that I would expect such from a responsible townwatch person.

All of Z's actions were strictly based on the race of T. I also say that based on what I call the Kate Upton defense. If T had been some hot white chick in Z's mind no way some hot white chick even if I don't know her could possibly be guilty of any crime.

I've said it before. He called 911 because T was staring at houses weirdly. He was staring at houses weirdly because he was new to the neighborhood and lost. Zimmerman mis-interpreted this.

The neighborhood itself has many more black residents than average, certainly more black residents than the neighborhood I live in, and so a black person on the sidewalk is actually a normal thing Zimmerman would have seen every day.

When someone racially profiles, they tend to know, immediately, the race when they call. Zimmerman struggled with a description until like a third through his call he sees that Martin is black.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
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The GOP shitheads who co-sponsored the law thinks Zimmerman should be arrested/immunity revoked and their law doesn't cover cases like these:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nake...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Yep. Getting tired of all of the folks thinking they know the law. Only Martin had a right to Stand his Ground.

“The guy lost his defense right then,” said Peaden. “When he said ‘I’m following him,’ he lost his defense.”

Under the law, a person who claims he was acting in self defense can be immune from arrest. But, like Peaden, Baxley said Zimmerman might have lost that right because he could have “aggravated” the situation and provoked a confrontation.

Said Baxley: “There’s nothing in this statute that authorizes you to pursue and confront people, particularly if law enforcement has told you to stay put. I don’t see why this statute is being challenged in this case. That is to prevent you from being attacked by other people.”

Baxley, R-Ocala, was a little more circumspect than Peaden in calling for Zimmerman’s arrest.

“I don’t want to make that judgment call based on speculation,” Baxley said. I just want to reinforce that there’s nothing in this statute that authorizes people to pursue and confront people.”
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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The thing is, there's nothing in the law that FORBIDS YOU from aggravating a situation. It's not about authorization to pursue. That's ridiculous. The problem is an oversight in writing of the law that craeted this massive loophole.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
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I've said it before. He called 911 because T was staring at houses weirdly. He was staring at houses weirdly because he was new to the neighborhood and lost. Zimmerman mis-interpreted this.

The neighborhood itself has many more black residents than average, certainly more black residents than the neighborhood I live in, and so a black person on the sidewalk is actually a normal thing Zimmerman would have seen every day.

When someone racially profiles, they tend to know, immediately, the race when they call. Zimmerman struggled with a description until like a third through his call he sees that Martin is black.

There is no evidence T was staring at houses weirdly you are taking Z's word. Z also said T was on drugs which also turned out not to be true.

Did it ever occur to you Z may have thought this because he was high? No drug/alcohol test done on him, why??

Z spends every fucking day of the year patrolling this neighborhood. How could he forget the names of the streets? He said he wasn't sure of a street name in the 911 call.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
I've said it before. He called 911 because T was staring at houses weirdly. He was staring at houses weirdly because he was new to the neighborhood and lost. Zimmerman mis-interpreted this.

The neighborhood itself has many more black residents than average, certainly more black residents than the neighborhood I live in, and so a black person on the sidewalk is actually a normal thing Zimmerman would have seen every day.

When someone racially profiles, they tend to know, immediately, the race when they call. Zimmerman struggled with a description until like a third through his call he sees that Martin is black.

Trayvon Martin: Who is crime watch volunteer George Zimmerman?

Teontae Ami, who also lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, said there are very few black teenagers like himself living in the neighborhood.

Teontae, 17, said he and a close friend, who is black, would sit at the end of a driveway in the evening and felt uncomfortable when Zimmerman would pass them on a neighborhood patrol.

They used to greet him, but he never responded, Teontae said.

"I think he took his job too seriously," Teontae said, referring to Zimmerman's watch patrols. A student, Teontae said his friend was once confronted by Zimmerman, who accused him of stealing a bike.

"I don't want to call it a black thing, but it sure seemed like it," said Teontae, who said the bike was never stolen.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
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It might if Zimmerman was drunk or high, his self defence claim wouldn't stand. There's no reason for them not to test Zimmerman...unless...

how would it not stand? He seemed to be able to operate a vehicle okay previously, so I don't think it is likely he was on anything. It is offensive to dignity I agree that Z was not tested while the dead boy was, but practically it doesn't matter.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
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The thing is, there's nothing in the law that FORBIDS YOU from aggravating a situation. It's not about authorization to pursue. That's ridiculous. The problem is an oversight in writing of the law that craeted this massive loophole.

This is why conviening a grand jury in Fla won't go anywhere. This case needs to be moved quickly to a federal jurisdiction so civil rights violations can be filed. Once that happens all the "stand your ground" bullshit no longer applies and Z is toast.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
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Well, that's dwelling on a 1% thing. Would a drug test really change what we know? I hope you're glad that when they arrived they put Zimmerman at gunpoint. I am.

That would have been a major thing because it would have proved impaired judgement in addition to a DUI. Changes the tenor of the case in Fla.

More important in this case then are the released pictures of T the most recent.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
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There is no evidence T was staring at houses weirdly you are taking Z's word. Z also said T was on drugs which also turned out not to be true.

Did it ever occur to you Z may have thought this because he was high? No drug/alcohol test done on him, why??

Z spends every fucking day of the year patrolling this neighborhood. How could he forget the names of the streets? He said he wasn't sure of a street name in the 911 call.

I still view him as a fuckup who is telling the truth as he sees it but misinterprets a lot of shit.

Besides, the picture I paint of T is innocuous and is one that I myself have often been in when in a new place.

For your theory to work, he would have to be an evil mastermind who planned to commit legalized stand your ground murder that night.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
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I still view him as a fuckup who is telling the truth as he sees it but misinterprets a lot of shit.

Besides, the picture I paint of T is innocuous and is one that I myself have often been in when in a new place.

For your theory to work, he would have to be an evil mastermind who planned to commit legalized stand your ground murder that night.

What he did was commit 2nd degree murder based on his preconceived notion black males are automatically suspect.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
This is why conviening a grand jury in Fla won't go anywhere. This case needs to be moved quickly to a federal jurisdiction so civil rights violations can be filed. Once that happens all the "stand your ground" bullshit no longer applies and Z is toast.

I honestly don't believe the feds have any action.

What I think they should do is arrest him, and then force him to invoke this self-defense immunity clause. It is possible that a judge will reject it and then we have a trial.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
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Youtube vid of the neighborhood for reference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVGeFAvzqyA

Also the google map of the same location: http://g.co/maps/wczvn

The place is small. I don't really see what this guy was patrolling, other than just driving around in the main circle.

Doesn't appear like this guy had a steady job. Looks like he worked at a used car dealership for a time before his wages started getting garnished for failing to pay bank debts.

Also had some history with the law. Arrest for Resisting Arrest in 2005, and some Domestic Violence petitions. Later married in 2007, tho I haven't seen anything mentioned about a current wife.

Kinda sounds like a loser who latched onto this trying to be somebody.

It's unclear how Zimmerman was employed when he encountered Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26, but he took his role as a neighborhood watch volunteer very seriously. Police say Zimmerman had called to report suspicious people on multiple occasions, just as he did when he saw Trayvon.

Teontae Ami, who also lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, said there are very few black teenagers like himself living in the neighborhood.

Teontae, 17, said he and a close friend, who is black, would sit at the end of a driveway in the evening and felt uncomfortable when Zimmerman would pass them on a neighborhood patrol.

They used to greet him, but he never responded, Teontae said.

"I think he took his job too seriously," Teontae said, referring to Zimmerman's watch patrols. A student, Teontae said his friend was once confronted by Zimmerman, who accused him of stealing a bike.

"I don't want to call it a black thing, but it sure seemed like it," said Teontae, who said the bike was never stolen.

Another neighbor, 55-year-old Frank Taaffe, defended Zimmerman as "not a racist."

Taaffe, a marketing specialist who had been a watch captain with Zimmerman until December, said he may have been "overzealous, maybe," but "his main concern is the safety and welfare of the community."

link
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
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What he did was commit 2nd degree murder based on his preconceived notion black males are automatically suspect.

I do believe that it is possible that him seeing that T was black made him more aggressive than he otherwise would have been in pursuing and questioning him, and possibly quicker to pull the trigger.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Goodness I have watched the goal posts move again and again and at the end of the day, Zimmerman killed this "fucking my excellent compatriot" in cold blood I think the only question that remains is why did it take this long for this fucking lunatic to snap. I think most non ALT trolls here will agree this guy is going to fry and rightfully so. 3000+ posts won't change that. The family is going to get paid and rightfully so, too. The obtuse here are stuck on their agendas and to continue to "argue" with them and to point out their obvious obfuscations and outright lies is a waste of time and energy.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
136
BTW - Since no arrest to date, do the police know where Z is? Is he obligated to keep his whereabouts known to the police? If not he could escape anywhere in the world.
 

DrewSG3

Senior member
Feb 7, 2005
363
48
91
I've said it before. He called 911 because T was staring at houses weirdly. He was staring at houses weirdly because he was new to the neighborhood and lost. Zimmerman mis-interpreted this.

The neighborhood itself has many more black residents than average, certainly more black residents than the neighborhood I live in, and so a black person on the sidewalk is actually a normal thing Zimmerman would have seen every day.

When someone racially profiles, they tend to know, immediately, the race when they call. Zimmerman struggled with a description until like a third through his call he sees that Martin is black.

How do you know this?
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
There is no evidence T was staring at houses weirdly you are taking Z's word. Z also said T was on drugs which also turned out not to be true.

Did it ever occur to you Z may have thought this because he was high? No drug/alcohol test done on him, why??

Z spends every fucking day of the year patrolling this neighborhood. How could he forget the names of the streets? He said he wasn't sure of a street name in the 911 call.

Could be. Smoking weed tends to make people paranoid and see normal shit in strange ways. Not like he had a real job to do.
Plus there are three fucking roads, one is the main loop. If you are not on that, you are on either A or B. If all you do is patrol this subdivision, how can you forget two street names?

Def needs to be pulled in and have some samples taken. Who knows what's going on. Considering a kid is dead, its worth looking.


I still view him as a fuckup who is telling the truth as he sees it but misinterprets a lot of shit.

Besides, the picture I paint of T is innocuous and is one that I myself have often been in when in a new place.

For your theory to work, he would have to be an evil mastermind who planned to commit legalized stand your ground murder that night.

I agree with you too. I actually dont think you two are that far off from ea other. Not really seeing this guy as some huge racist, more of a run of the mill gun-toting idiot, but its not hard to see a black kid in a hoodie and have you mind jump to "thug" no matter who you are. It ain't right, but it is what it is. Least that's what Juan Williams said once.

Add a little paranoid delusion and wishful thinking, boom, black kid wandering around in a hoodie suddenly looks like a perp, and superman decides he needs to save the day.
 
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micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
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This is good.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-horwitz/arming-zimmerman_b_1367648.html

A few years ago, the South Florida Sun-Sentinel conducted an investigation that revealed that Florida concealed handgun permit holders included more than 1,400 people who pleaded guilty or no contest to felonies, 216 people with outstanding warrants, 128 people with active domestic violence injunctions against them, and six registered sex offenders. In response, the Florida legislature and Governor Bush enacted a law banning the public and press from accessing this information in the future.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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http://www.komonews.com/news/nation...make-you-think-others-are-too--143562996.html

this furthers my argument that gun ownership makes you paranoid.

In the study which was carried out well before the shooting, undergraduates at Notre Dame and Purdue glimpsed scenes of people holding objects and had to decide quickly whether the object was a gun. The results showed they were biased toward thinking so if they themselves were holding a toy gun, rather than a plastic ball. Just having a gun nearby didn't make a difference, researchers found.

Why is that? Brockmole said people are primed to act in the world rather than just passively see it. So their minds have to contain information both about what they see and what they might do in response. Evidently, each kind of information can influence the other, he said.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
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Could be. Smoking weed tends to make people paranoid and see normal shit in strange ways. Not like he had a real job to do.
Plus there are three fucking roads, one is the main loop. If you are not on that, you are on either A or B. If all you do is patrol this subdivision, how can you forget two street names?

Def needs to be pulled in and have some samples taken. Who knows what's going on. Considering a kid is dead, its worth looking.




I agree with you too. I actually dont think you two are that far off from ea other. Not really seeing this guy as some huge racist, more of a run of the mill gun-toting idiot, but its not hard to see a black kid in a hoodie and have you mind jump to "thug" no matter who you are. It ain't right, but it is what it is. Least that's what Juan Williams said once.

Add a little paranoid delusion and wishful thinking, boom, black kid wandering around in a hoodie suddenly looks like a perp, and superman decides he needs to save the day.

The thing in my mind is this: if Z or the Sanford PD are uniquely evil, then there is no reason to change the law, since they are exceptions to the law. And I believe that the problem really is the law as it is written.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
The thing in my mind is this: if Z or the Sanford PD are uniquely evil, then there is no reason to change the law, since they are exceptions to the law. And I believe that the problem really is the law as it is written.

This whole episode doesn't give me a whole lot of faith in the competence of their police and the way they've decided to interpret the law, but I think its clear from this the law is idiotic