Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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It is also possible the police chief did not hear the tapes before taking questioning. To him, this started out as just another hispanic male and black male shooting incident, one of many, to be sure.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
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You're wrong. The quality is low and it's not 100% what he said yet, but it sounds likely that's what he said, I heard that recording.

Your saying he did not has no grounds IMO.



Where's your evidence for alleging the 'F***** coons' tape on the show was edited?

on what show? This is local news to me.

There are probably like 5 different versions of all the 911 calls floating around cyberspace if you just searched.

Also if you search for 'zimmerman fucking coons' you will find some linguists commenting on the sounds could not make that word.

Of course I am sure they were using 'tapes edited by the KKK, Nazi Party and the Illuminati'.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
24
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It is also possible the police chief did not hear the tapes before taking questioning. To him, this started out as just another hispanic male and black male shooting incident, one of many, to be sure.

True, he may very well have been briefed on the tapes, without actually having listened to them. Perhaps he shouldn't have commented on them if that was the case. Again, the article doesn't necessarily directly quote him when it lists what the Chief supposedly said.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
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Why has his department lied on other occasions? Because maybe they're corrupt. The previous chief was. Read the entire thread and you'll see.

Almost EVERY PD in the country has had incidents of an officer doing things unethically and at times racist.

When these things come to light the WHOLE PD doesn't back it up, it's usually an Internal Affairs or worse situation.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
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True, he may very well have been briefed on the tapes, without actually having listened to them. Perhaps he shouldn't have commented on them if that was the case. Again, the article doesn't necessarily directly quote him when it lists what the Chief supposedly said.

Not defending him, just tossing things out there. It is silly to say something you know will later be found untrue, unless you do not realize what you are saying is wrong.

Maybe the Police Chief wanted to be like Obama and talk about police events without having a clue as to what happened. ;)
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
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Almost EVERY PD in the country has had incidents of an officer doing things unethically and at times racist.

When these things come to light the WHOLE PD doesn't back it up, it's usually an Internal Affairs or worse situation.

The previous chief got canned for it.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
You're mistaken. He is not immune from being sued - just immune from civil liability if a jury believes he acted in reasonable self-defense under the statute. The plaintiffs will only have to pay his costs and fees if that finding is made. I think many lawyers will be happy to take that risk - I know I would be willing to unless the evidence reveals things to be quite different from the way they now stand.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...032&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.032.html

This has stopped all the scourge of the earth from suing shop owners and victims when they decided to break one off in the criminal instead of take one.

Most families don't have the five figure nest egg to cover fees when the Judge laughs at their asses.

I am sure most lawyers would take the risk, just like the do for personal injury. Lose 5 cases at $10,000 in fees to win 1 at a $300,000 payout to keep 30-42% off the top and then take out all costs associated. Cut a check to the victim for about $50k.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
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The previous chief got canned for it.

sounds like an issue the previous chief had, not the whole PD.

Funny though, the same people that insist there aren't conspiracies over look this as it would definitely be one if the entire PD was in on it.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
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on what show? This is local news to me.

There are probably like 5 different versions of all the 911 calls floating around cyberspace if you just searched.

Also if you search for 'zimmerman fucking coons' you will find some linguists commenting on the sounds could not make that word.

Of course I am sure they were using 'tapes edited by the KKK, Nazi Party and the Illuminati'.

As I said, the Cenk Uugur show, on MSNBC.

Here's a link to the youtube clip of his show segment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNI5CA5jijw&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ&index=2

Listen to 2:35 for where he repeats the part of the tape a few times.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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sounds like an issue the previous chief had, not the whole PD.

Funny though, the same people that insist there aren't conspiracies over look this as it would definitely be one if the entire PD was in on it.

Chiefs tend to influence the culture of departments on things like this. That's not proof one way or the other, but you are wrong to say it has no effect.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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LOL at anybody that thinks he's saying 'fucking punks'.

The thing that concerns me is just how easy it would have been for him to put false info on the tape to cover himself, like referring to 'african american gentleman' to sound not racist, or to invent sounding like he was defending himself like saying that he saw the kid reaching behind him. People tend to trust 911 tapes too much IMO insofar as planted info.

You can't expect that every racist situation will have a caller such an idiot as to say 'F****** coons' into a 911 recording.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
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well the problem is most were saying the 'assholes' part was the fucking my excellent compatriot part. Once Zimmerman is in chase, he is in the heat of the moment.

I am sure many would have uttered a racial derogatory at that point, I am sure in a review of 911 tapes it would be common...people are angry/scared/etc and not thinking rationally.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
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well the problem is most were saying the 'assholes' part was the fucking my excellent compatriot part. Once Zimmerman is in chase, he is in the heat of the moment.

I am sure many would have uttered a racial derogatory at that point, I am sure in a review of 911 tapes it would be common...people are angry/scared/etc and not thinking rationally.

Huh? Why would Zimmerman be in chase? And then you say it's okay that he used a racial derogatory? Wow.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
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well the problem is most were saying the 'assholes' part was the fucking my excellent compatriot part. Once Zimmerman is in chase, he is in the heat of the moment.

I am sure many would have uttered a racial derogatory at that point, I am sure in a review of 911 tapes it would be common...people are angry/scared/etc and not thinking rationally.

I can't see what you're saying as anything but rationalization. You're certainly not helping his case by making excuses for him using a racial slur like this when Mr. Martin's worst offense, at least at that point, was walking around his father's neighborhood. A more coherent defense might be, it doesn't matter what he thinks of black people - what matters is the events of the incident itself.

I find it very hard to intelligently analyze this incident without at least factoring in the "coons," however, and I doubt very seriously that if he were a black guy who had made a racial slur against white people, then shot one, you'd be as blasé about it.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
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here is a transcription of most of the events. It's apparent some of the 911 callers spoke prior to calling in.

7:09 p.m. ET

Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

Zimmerman: "We had some break-ins in our neighborhood ... and there is a real suspicious guy. ... This guy looks like he's up to no good, he's on drugs or something. It's raining, and he's walking around looking about. "

Dispatcher: "Is this guy white, black, Hispanic?"

Zimmerman: "He looks black."

Dispatcher: "Did you see what he's wearing?"

Zimmerman: "A dark hoodie, grey hoodie, jeans or sweatpants or white shoes. He's walking around staring at the houses. Now he's just staring at me."

Dispatcher: "Location?"

Zimmerman: "He's near the clubhouse right now. Now he's coming towards me. He has his hands in his waistband. He is a black male. Something's wrong with him. Yep. He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Send officers over here."

Dispatcher: "Let me know if he does anything else."

Zimmerman: "These assholes, they always get away. When you come in go straight to the left ... when you pass the clubhouse ..."

Dispatcher: "Clubhouse?"

Zimmerman: "Go straight in. Oh, shit. He's running ... down towards the other entrance of neighborhood."

Dispatcher: "He's running? Which way is he running?"

Zimmerman: "Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood."

Dispatcher: "Which entrance is that, that he is running towards?

Zimmerman: "The back entrance."

Zimmerman: [whispering]"these fucking coons..."

Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"

Zimmerman: "Yeah."

Dispatcher: "OK. We don't need you to do that. What's your name?"

Zimmerman: "George. Zimmerman."

Dispatcher: "Do you want to meet with the officer ..."

Zimmerman: "Tell them to come past the clubhouse and make a left then past mailboxes and they will see my truck ..."

Dispatcher: "What's your apartment number?"

Zimmerman: "It's a home. ... I don't want to give that out. I don't know who this kid is."

Dispatcher: "I will let them know where to meet you."

Zimmerman: "Have them call me, and I will let you know where I'm at."



During part of this time, Martin is on the phone with a 16-year-old girl. Below is an account of the phone call as relayed to In Session's Sunny Hostin by a lawyer for the Martin family:

Martin told the girl someone was following him, and she advised him to run. Martin said he isn't going to run but will walk quickly. Zimmerman caught up with him, and Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him. Zimmerman then asked Martin his name and why he was there. The girl on the phone says she heard Zimmerman push Martin, and then the call drops. She tried to call Martin back, but he didn't respond.


7:16 p.m. ET
Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

Caller: "Maybe both. I'm not sure. There's just someone screaming outside."

Dispatcher: "Is it a male or female?"

Caller: "It sounds like a male."

Dispatcher: "You don't know why?"

Caller: "I don't know why. I think they are yelling 'help,' but I don't know. Just end someone quick, please."

Dispatcher: "Does he look hurt to you?"

Caller: "I can't see him. I don't want to go out there. I don't know what's going on."

Dispatcher: "So you think he's yelling help?"

Caller: "Yes. There's gunshots."

Dispatcher: "How many?"

Caller: "Just one."

[inaudible]

Dispatcher: "Is he right outside?"

Caller: "Yes. Pretty much out the back, yes."

Dispatcher: "Is he in front of it or behind it?"

Caller: "He's behind my house."

Dispatcher: "I don't hear him yelling anymore. Do you hear anything?"

Caller: "No, I don't because I'm hiding upstairs. The gunshot was outside our house. You sent somebody, right?"

Dispatcher: "Do you hear any vehicles leaving or anything else?

Caller: "There's people yelling down there, but I don't want to go down there."

Dispatcher: "People are yelling now?"

Caller: "Yeah."

Dispatcher: "We do have officers on the way. Call us back if you see any vehicles leaving or anything."


7:16 p.m. ET
Dispatcher: "Police, fire or medical?"

Caller: "There's someone screaming outside."

Dispatcher: "Is that at where you are at?"

Caller: "Oh, my God, there is a gunshot, hurry up."

[inaudible]

Dispatcher: "Do you see anybody? I don't need you to go outside."

Caller: "There is someone screaming. I just heard a gunshot."

Dispatcher: "Do you see anything? I don't need you to go outside. Do you hear screaming or anything?"

Caller: "Hurry up, they are right outside my house."

Dispatcher: "OK, we [have] police and emergency, OK. Are you in Sanford?"

Caller: "I see police now."

Dispatcher: "You see the officer?"

Caller: "Yeah, but like it's behind the house. There is a dead body there. It's not the front entrance. Oh, my God."

Dispatcher: "Please tell me so I can tell them."

Caller: "If you are looking at my house, it's behind by my back porch."

Dispatcher: "Coming from behind your house?"

Caller: "Yes, the back porch."

Dispatcher: "Stay on the line and update me."

Caller: "I just heard screaming and a gunshot."

Dispatcher: "We have an officer there. Did you hear any more gunshots?"

Caller: "No, I don't hear. Hurry up, hurry up."

Dispatcher: "OK, we have officers out there, OK? If anything changes, give us a call back, but we do have officers there. One officer is there."

Caller: "OK, did he see anything?"

Dispatcher: "I'm not sure, ma'am, I just know he is there, and two other officers are on their way, OK? If anything changes or anything more, call us back. As far as you know, it's coming from behind your house near your back-porch area? When you hear screaming, was it screaming of female or male?"

Caller: "Male."

Dispatcher: "So, when you heard screaming, it was a male screaming?"

Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."

Dispatcher: "What do you mean guy on top? Did you see a fight?"

Caller: "I don't know, I just looked out my window, and there was a guy on top wearing a white t-shirt."

Dispatcher: "A white t-shirt. Did you see what kind of pants? He was on top of what?"

Caller: "I couldn't see the person he was on."

Dispatcher: "But he was on top of a person?"

Caller: "Yes."

Dispatcher: "The guy with the white t-shirt, did he get up and run?"

Caller: "I don't know. Went to the phone to call you

Dispatcher: "White, black or Hispanic?"

Caller: "I couldn't tell, it was completely dark."

Dispatcher: "We have several units en route."

Caller: "Thank you."

7:17 p.m. ET

Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

Caller: "I’m looking out my deck, and someone is screaming 'help,' and I don’t know. … I heard a bang. I’m looking out my window, out my backyard, and someone is yelling and screaming 'help.' "

Dispatcher: "You are not the only person calling. We have more than one officer on the scene and another on the way."

Caller: "Oh, my God. I see the person now. I see him walking. There’s a man coming out and people coming out with flashlights. Oh, my God. I don’t know what he did to this person. I can see there is a man walking out with a flashlight right now."

Dispatcher: "Was it a male or female voice?"

Caller: "The man is up right now. Someone is coming over. I’m glad other people called."

Dispatcher: "We should be out there right now."

Caller: "I can open my window and hear it."

Dispatcher: "You can still hear it?"

Caller: "I don’t know what is happening. Someone is laying on the ground."

Dispatcher: "What’s happening? Someone is on the ground? Someone has been shot? Calm down, stay on the line with me. Like I said, we have an officer on the scene, and we have other officers on the line."

Caller: "Oh, my God. They better hurry up. Someone is on the ground. Oh, my God! I see out my back window, sidewalk, grass, something is really bad. There is a man out here with a flashlight."

Dispatcher: "Is this person laying down in the street?"

Caller: "No, it's from my back window."

Dispatcher: "So is the person laying down in the street or in the grass?"

Caller: "The grass. Oh, my God! I think there is another gentleman with a flashlight. ... I think police. Oh, my God! He shot, he shot the person.He says he shot the person. He said he shot the person."

Dispatcher: "Who saying they shot who?"

Caller: "The people out there, a guy is raising his hands up, he's saying he shot a person. I think it's a police officer that's with him right now. arrest - uh - oh, my God, why - why (inaudible)"

Dispatcher: "Our officer is there, he has somebody at gunpoint. They're going to handle the situation from here."

Caller: "Oh! Oh, my God, somebody would be shot!"

Dispatcher: "It's probably going to be best if you stay inside your home for the time being, OK?"

Caller:" I know. I can't believe somebody's killed. He was saying help. Why didn't someone come out and help him?"

Dispatcher: "Listen, we don't know if they been killed ..."

Caller: "Yes, the person is dead, laying on the ground."

Dispatcher: "Just because he's laying on the ground don't mean he's passed. We have an ambulance on the way, and we are probably going to pick him up and take him to the hospital."

Caller: "I didn't see cause it was too dark, and I just heard people screaming 'help me, help me.' And this person shot him! He was like wrestling with him, you know what I mean, on the ground, from what I can see it was very dark. The man didn't try to run away or anything. I don't want to be a witness or anything. I'm scared. Oh, my god, a young boy, I can't imagine, I haven't seen anyone killed. This is a nice neighborhood. Oh, my God, I'm too scared to live here."

Dispatcher: "You don't have to worry right now. We have many officers on the way. Two officers on scene right now, we are on scene, OK?"

7:17 p.m. ET
Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

Caller: "Police. I just heard a shot behind my house. They are wrestling outside the back of my porch."

Dispatcher: "You just heard one shot go off?""

Caller: "It was either that or a rock at the window or something else. The guy's yelling 'help,' and I'm not going to help."

Dispatcher: "So you can hear someone yelling for help?"

Caller: "I'm pretty sure the guy is dead out here. Holy shit!"

Dispatcher: "OK, we have several people calling in. Anything else that you heard?"

Caller: "A guy yelling, 'help.' Oh, my God! There is a guy with a flashlight in the backyard now. I think there's flashlights and a guy. ... I don't know if that's a cop. "

Dispatcher: "OK, we have several calls. Are you sure when you heard voices it was one person yelling, right?"

Caller: "There were two guys in the yard with flashlights, and there is a black guy down like he's been shot, and he's dead."

Dispatcher: "I have several officers going out there."


7:17 p.m. ET
Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

Caller: "Medical. I think someone has been shot."

Dispatcher: "Why do you think someone has been shot?"

Caller: "Because they are laying in the backyard and a gunshot and they said 'call 911.' Now there are people coming with flashlights ..."

Dispatcher: "And it's in the backyard?"

Caller: "Yes."

Dispatcher: "And someone is laying in the backyard?"

Caller: "Yes, there are people around him now."

Dispatcher: "You there with kids?"

Caller: "Yes, my daughter. He is a black guy."

Dispatcher: "We have units on the way. What do you mean it's a black guy?"

Caller: "There is a black male standing over him."

Dispatcher: "Can you tell me what he's wearing?"

Caller: "I think someone else called 911."

Dispatcher: "You do see officers out there?"

Caller: "Yeah, I think that's the flashlights that we see."


7:18 p.m. ET
Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

Caller: "This is 911, correct? Police or medical. Someone is yelling two doors down from me, screaming, hollering 'help, help, help.' There is an elderly man that lives down there. I don't know. I heard a gunshot. I don't know if it would be ambulance."

Dispatcher: "How many shots did you hear?"

Caller: "One."

Dispatcher: "How long ago?"

Caller: "As soon as I heard that I picked up the phone and called."

Dispatcher: "Before calling 911?"

Caller: "Yes. There is somebody out by my back porch. ... There is someone walking around with a flashlight. The police may already be here. I don't know. Someone is out there with a flashlight, but I did hear something."

Dispatcher: "We do have units there."

Caller: "Oh, my God."

Dispatcher: "And the screaming, was it a male or female you heard?"

Caller: "It sounded to me like a male, and from what I know and I've been here four years, there is an elderly man that lives like four doors down, um, north of me, and I'm inside."

Dispatcher: "Do you think it's coming from your area?"

Caller: "I don't know, ma'am, I'm standing at my back sliding glass door. I don't see anything but a flashlight shining around, but I did hear someone yelling 'help, help, help' or 'oh, my gosh' and something, then moaning and a boom, and I picked up the phone and called."

Dispatcher: "Did you see or hear anything else like a vehicle pulling away?"

Caller: "No, ma'am, because I'm in the back, and in the back there is just a walkway. It could have been someone in the front with a car, I don't know, but I was in the back. It was scary. There is someone still back there with flashlights walking around."

Dispatcher: "There should be someone on the scene ..."


7:19 p.m. ET
Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

Caller: "My brother said someone got shot behind our house."

Dispatcher: "Is your brother out there right now?"

Caller: "No, he ran in the house."

Dispatcher: "Do you know who was shot?"

Caller: "No idea. ... I'm inside. It's behind our house. ... Yeah."

Dispatcher: "You didn't see or hear anything else? Did you hear the shot?"

Caller: "I heard something, and my brother ran in the house."

Dispatcher: "My brother saw it."

Dispatcher: "What did you see?"

Caller: "I saw a man laying on the ground screaming who needed help. I was going to go over there to try and help him, but my dog got off the leash, and I ran and got him, and I hurried around and down, and the screaming stopped."

Dispatcher: "Did you see the person get shot?"

Caller: "No."

Dispatcher: Did you know the person who got shot, or did you see the person with the gun?"

Caller: "No, I just heard a shot, and the screaming stopped."


Officers arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. ET, according to a police report.

Officers Timothy Smith and Ricardo Alayo said they noted a black male in a gray hooded sweatshirt lying face-down in the grass, as well as a white male in the area.

"Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed," Smith wrote in a police report.

Smith said he asked Zimmerman to hand over the weapon, a Kel Tec 9 mm, and handcuffed him.

"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and he was covered in grass, as if he was laying on his back on the ground," Smith wrote in the police report. "Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of the head."

The officers also made several attempts to revive Martin.

When police put Zimmerman in the back of the cruiser, he said, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me," according to the police report
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
well the problem is most were saying the 'assholes' part was the fucking my excellent compatriot part. Once Zimmerman is in chase, he is in the heat of the moment.

I am sure many would have uttered a racial derogatory at that point, I am sure in a review of 911 tapes it would be common...people are angry/scared/etc and not thinking rationally.

You are such a POS. No they would not have. What in the hell makes you think a person in the heat of the moment would use a racial derogatory comment, if they would never use one anyway? What does the heat of the moment have to do with anything? According to his dad he is so close with all these black people, why would he use racially charged words to describe a black person when mad?
 
Last edited:

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
You are such a POS. No they would not have. What in the hell makes you think a person in the heat of the moment would use a racial derogatory comment, if they would never use one anyway? What does the heat of the moment have to do with anything? According to his dad he so close with all these black people, why would he use racially charged words to describe a black person when mad?

wow are you saying people don't use words like ******s, spics, honkey, cracker, etc when calling 911, when talking to police?

There are many people that are friends with tons of black people and will use ****** to describe one that is a criminal the same as they might refer to white trash/beloved patriot/cracker or beloved patriot/beloved patriot....etc.

You are really playing stupid there. This is simple human nature. I don't agree with it, but I guess in your world you are either a hard-core racist or not...there is no difference.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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wow are you saying people don't use words like ******s, spics, honkey, cracker, etc when calling 911, when talking to police?

There are many people that are friends with tons of black people and will use ****** to describe one that is a criminal the same as they might refer to white trash/beloved patriot/cracker or beloved patriot/beloved patriot....etc.

You are really playing stupid there. This is simple human nature. I don't agree with it, but I guess in your world you are either a hard-core racist or not...there is no difference.

Your world is very, very different from most people's, I suspect. In my world I don't just start spouting off racial slurs every time I get upset, even if it's with a minority member.

Aren't you the one who was so certain that Mr. Zimmerman didn't even know Mr. Martin's race? It doesn't sound like there's much he could have done that you wouldn't be OK with.