Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
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Wonderful. So I can start a bar fight and then shoot the other guy and claim I was afraid for my life.

If everything Zimmerman says is true, he is guilty of murder.

don't forget you have to fall on the ground like a big blubbering p**** AFTER you start the fight, but BEFORE you shoot said woman, child, or cripple you are in obvious mortal danger from.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
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you mean cold blooded killer looking for a chance to kill someone and then try and get away with it. Someone should go up and shoot him in the face, they have a better self defense claim than he ever did.

I'm sure Spidey, Alkemyst, and the rest of the Zimmerman supporters would gladly have had their son, daughter, or wife been in Martin's position just to show you all how strongly they believe in facts, evidence, and eye witness testimony.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
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Wonderful. So I can start a bar fight and then shoot the other guy and claim I was afraid for my life.

If everything Zimmerman says is true, he is guilty of murder.

How about a cliffs notes version of why Zimmerman is guilty of murder, please. Based on "everything Zimmerman says."
 

RedString

Senior member
Feb 24, 2011
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Many of the 911 tapes have the witnesses making comments about "it's so dark, I can't see what's going on" or something to that effect. It happened around 7:15PM on Feb 26th. Daylight savings time started on March 11th, so, being a resident of Orlando, probably 20-30 miles away from the location this happened, I can tell you that it was probably quite dark at 7:15PM, especially considering it was rainy out as well.

And it's not common to see anyone walking a little after 7?

Edit: Looks like Spidey and Alkemyst have been procreating again.. The Zimmerman supporters are growing.
 
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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
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A teenage boy going out for a stroll on a drizzly night doesn't seem a little atypical to you? Are you dismissing the fact that there were break-ins in the neighborhood, and that may have been why Zimmerman was in a state of heightened alert? In the 911 tape, when Zimmerman said "these a**holes always get away", he's probably (in my opinion) referring to the fact that nobody had been caught (afaik) in connection with the break-ins. I imagine this was frustrating to him, and perhaps why he became neighborhood watch captain to begin with, and felt he needed to do something about it.

From what I understand, this was a private, gated community, and there is nothing illegal about approaching someone and asking them a question on private property you partially own.

Who gives a shit what condition Zimmerman is in? He's a "self" appointed not registered neighborhood watch guy, just a shade above "busybody".

He's a nobody with no authority or even registered with Neighborhood watch.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
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And it's not common to see anyone walking a little after 7?

Edit: Looks like Spidey and Alkemyst have been procreating again.. The Zimmerman supporters are growing.

If I was a criminal casing a neighborhood, I wouldn't do it in broad daylight. I was mainly mentioning the fact that it was raining outside, and Trayvon had a hoodie on, which somewhat masked his identity; again, something a criminal would probably do. I'm just saying I can understand why Zimmerman, when taking into account all the facts of the situation he was in at that time, felt that Trayvon was worth keeping an eye on.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
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Who gives a shit what condition Zimmerman is in? He's a "self" appointed not registered neighborhood watch guy, just a shade above "busybody".

He's a nobody with no authority or even registered with Neighborhood watch.

I'm explaining why he may have been more aggressive than might be expected, considering there had been a real threat to his community in recent times.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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The police ARE fucking complicit, YOU need to grow up. Zimmerman basically has the sanford police in his back pocket:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/16/2697604/trayvon-martins-parents-criss.html

In an interview this week with the Miami Herald, Police Chief Bill Lee said the 911 calls would prove the incident was not a case of racial profiling, because when asked whether the suspect was white or black, Zimmerman did not know. However the recording clearly shows that when asked, Zimmerman said, “He looks black.” And then a few moments later, “He’s a black male.”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborho...s-questionable/story?id=15907136#.T2i1bcUgeW3

But after the shooting, a source inside the police department told ABC News that a narcotics detective and not a homicide detective first approached Zimmerman. The detective pepppered Zimmerman with questions, the source said, rather than allow Zimmerman to tell his story. Questions can lead a witness, the source said.

...

Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.
The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.

...

Lee publically admitted that officers accepted Zimmerman's word at the scene that he had no police record.

I've addressed this multiple times here. I believe Bill Lee.

Z's reason for making the call was T's body movements, which he misconstrued. He was unsure of T's race and finally figured it out midway through the call. That means that he did NOT CALL 911 B/C OF T'S RACE.

In fact it would utterly illogical to call 911 b/c of T's race. Why? Because the neighborhood has many black residents and so a black person walking on the sidewalk would not be out of the ordinary.

I don't know about the narcotics detective.

Mary Cutcher is the teacher and I believe that while she means well she is completely wrong in her understanding of how criminal investigations work and the flaws in witness perceptions.

What Mary Cutcher witnessed was this.

1. hearing the gunshot while in her kitchen
2. Rushing to the window and seeing Zimmerman in the immediate aftermath of the gunshot.

There is no way that she could have deduced the identity of the person who was screaming. She is guessing, and she's telling all of the media outlets this hearsay.
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
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If I was a criminal casing a neighborhood, I wouldn't do it in broad daylight. I was mainly mentioning the fact that it was raining outside, and Trayvon had a hoodie on, which somewhat masked his identity; again, something a criminal would probably do. I'm just saying I can understand why Zimmerman, when taking into account all the facts of the situation he was in at that time, felt that Trayvon was worth keeping an eye on.

He didn't just keep an eye on him. He got out of his car and chased him through the neighborhood. Too bad Trayvon did not have a gun. I guess he could have shot Z fearing for his life. I doubt you would have been here defending his actions.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
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'Zimmerman said he had stepped out of his truck

...and fired the semiautomatic handgun'


Murder.

What's with the dots? Are you leaving something out? Something tells me there are important events that took place where those dots stand.

Edit: BTW, if that's all that happened, then yes, that is murder, fwiw.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
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He didn't just keep an eye on him. He got out of his car and chased him through the neighborhood. Too bad Trayvon did not have a gun. I guess he could have shot Z fearing for his life. I doubt you would have been here defending his actions.

Zimmerman pursued Trayvon after Trayvon took off running. I imagine Zimmerman felt that by running away, it made Trayvon look like he actually was up to no good, and trying to escape. I don't understand why Trayvon would just start running away when Zimmerman was just sitting in his truck? I can understand why this made Zimmerman even more certain that Trayvon was up to something.
 

RedString

Senior member
Feb 24, 2011
299
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It's been awhile since I've asked this - maybe someone finally gave out some details.

Any new details on Zimmermans 'vicious beating' damage? Last I heard and could find was he had a bloody nose and some unknown amount of blood on back of his head. (which for all we know he got popped in the nose and slipped in the wet grass.)

I'd figure if he was beat and bloodied enough they would have been flaunting the photos immediately. What are they waiting for, for him to 'heal' so they can claim it was worse but has healed up?

Zimmerman pursued Trayvon after Trayvon took off running. I imagine Zimmerman felt that by running away, it made Trayvon look like he actually was up to no good, and trying to escape. I don't understand why Trayvon would just start running away when Zimmerman was just sitting in his truck? I can understand why this made Zimmerman even more certain that Trayvon was up to something.


Just sitting in his truck? He slowly crept behind him for awhile until Trayvon turned to him questioningly, then walked towards the vehicle (Zimmermans words), then what? Z didn't say anything apparently or roll down window, he was on 911 call, we didn't hear it. THEN, Trayvon ran - after approaching the car that had been following him, probably asking Why are you following me, and getting no response.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
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londojowo.hypermart.net
I believe based on actual evidence and testimony no charges will ever filed against Mr Zimmerman. No civil rights violations will be found. No lawsuits will filed as the plaintiffs will not want to pay their legal fees but Mr Zimmerman's legal fees, court costs, and lost wages as well.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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Nope. He (Lee) said the kid's race wasn't mentioned in the 911 call. It WAS, that's called a lie.

he said the tapes would prove that it was not a case of racial profiling and in that he was correct. Just acknowledging someone's race midway through the call doesn't make it profiling.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
24
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I'd figure if he was beat and bloodied enough they would have been flaunting the photos immediately. What are they waiting for, for him to 'heal' so they can claim it was worse but has healed up?

I imagine, like most police investigations, they will release those photos when the investigation is complete, and they deem it necessary for the public to see them (which they likely will in this case). That is also assuming there are such pictures, and let's hope there are.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
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Zimmerman pursued Trayvon after Trayvon took off running. I imagine Zimmerman felt that by running away, it made Trayvon look like he actually was up to no good, and trying to escape. I don't understand why Trayvon would just start running away when Zimmerman was just sitting in his truck? I can understand why this made Zimmerman even more certain that Trayvon was up to something.

Zimmerman was following Trayvon in his truck. When Trayvon saw Zimmerman following him ( a creepy guy he didn't know) His girlfriend on the phone told him to run, to get away from the guy. Zimmerman gets out of his truck and chases him while being told not to by the police dispatcher.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
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I believe based on actual evidence and testimony no charges will ever filed against Mr Zimmerman. No civil rights violations will be found. No lawsuits will filed as the plaintiffs will not want to pay their legal fees but Mr Zimmerman's legal fees, court costs, and lost wages as well.

And you trumpet this like a badge of honor.........................
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
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he said the tapes would prove that it was not a case of racial profiling and in that he was correct. Just acknowledging someone's race midway through the call doesn't make it profiling.

No he didn't, Link for that please, He claimed Zimmerman didn't know the race of the subject, he did.
 

RedString

Senior member
Feb 24, 2011
299
0
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I imagine, like most police investigations, they will release those photos when the investigation is complete, and they deem it necessary for the public to see them (which they likely will in this case). That is also assuming there are such pictures, and let's hope there are.

They've already explained the extent of his damage being a bloodied nose and however much blood on back of head. Why would they leave out swollen eye? Busted lip? Etc..

If you're going to detail some of it, why would they leave any out?