Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
Because the police lie most of the time and abuse power. They are there only for themselves, and will screw over anyone and say anything to get there way. Then since they are police they will get away with it. Yeah I am privy to being able to see the situation how it is, not how I want it to be, and not caring what stupid law they decided to pass to allow killing.

98 must be the year you were born.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Ok, according to all of you, Z is a crazy person. Now tell me how he had been doing this neighborhood watch thing for at least a year, and had not assaulted or killed anyone before?

If he was the type to just approach any male black youths and shove them around or whatever, why were there no assaults reported by him before this?

The fact that the police TOLD HIM NOT TO PURSUE Trayvon and he did so anyway means there's something fucking wrong with him. Considering the number of times he's called into the police, it might be that this is the first time he's dumb enough to do it. That would also explain his comment 'they always get away', showing his frustration which probably propelled him to chase him down (and not only that, but he pretty much tagged Trayvon as a criminal with no basis for doing so, other than skin color).
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,302
1
0
Show me anything that would lead you to believe Trayvon deserved to approached, chased, and questioned by a complete stranger?

To be honest I would not mind if someone was looking out for me and my apt, and if someone is walking around, head covered by a hoodie, and appears to be casing apts, I don't see why a neighborhood watch person should not be able to approach him and ask him if he lives there.

I understand that it was a misunderstanding, but it seems that Tray had the opportunity to explain himself and possibly chose another option.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
24
81
Show me anything that would lead you to believe Trayvon deserved to approached, chased, and questioned by a complete stranger?

It was a dark, rainy night, so it was probably rather odd to see someone out walking about in the neighborhood. That's worthy of attention right there. There had been a number (I have no clue how many) of break-ins or attempted break-ins in the neighborhood in recent times, and I imagine that had Zimmerman on heightened alert, and more likely to find suspicion in someone that seemed to be randomly walking about, looking at houses, especially in such conditions.

Given those 2 facts combined, and probably a little racial bias on Zimmerman's part (I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case anyway), I could easily see why Zimmerman would want to investigate what exactly this kid was up to.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
24
81
Because the police lie most of the time and abuse power. They are there only for themselves, and will screw over anyone and say anything to get there way. Then since they are police they will get away with it. Yeah I am privy to being able to see the situation how it is, not how I want it to be, and not caring what stupid law they decided to pass to allow killing.

I definitely won't say that there are no bad cops, because I'm sure there are plenty of them, but I think your assertions border on paranoia, without likely reason. I hope you're just speaking emotionally and not expressing how you truly feel.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
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They are trying to pass such laws in iOwa. The shoot first, ask questions later law.
The law will state if someone "feels threatened", they can take "deadly" action against the offender, or offenders, or anyone considered as such.
This gives the average citizen more authority and protection to kill than is given to police.
This is legalized murder, all no doubt will be defended in court by the NRA.
So get you gun folks, and start writing that hit list.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
To be honest I would not mind if someone was looking out for me and my apt, and if someone is walking around, head covered by a hoodie, and appears to be casing apts, I don't see why a neighborhood watch person should not be able to approach him and ask him if he lives there.

I understand that it was a misunderstanding, but it seems that Tray had the opportunity to explain himself and possibly chose another option.


No one has the right to play police officer and they are not one. A misunderstanding huh? Let someone blow away your family member and they have done nothing wrong, then lets see you casually call it a misunderstanding.

He said initially he thought he was black and then he confirmed he was black. He stalked that kid for several minutes.

But he who lives by the sword, hopefully will die by that same sword.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
24
81
No one has the right to play police officer and they are not one. A misunderstanding huh? Let someone blow away your family member and they have done nothing wrong, then lets see you casually call it a misunderstanding.

He said initially he thought he was black and then he confirmed he was black. He stalked that kid for several minutes.

But he who lives by the sword, hopefully will die by that same sword.

The misunderstanding (how I see it) is that Zimmerman likely felt Trayvon had something to do with the recent break-ins in the neighborhood, or felt that Trayvon was acting in a peculiar manner given the weather, and how he appeared to be looking at different houses (he may have been lost in the rain/dark).

That is not why Zimmerman shot him, at least according to any of the evidence that you or I have available. There was a physical altercation, which left Zimmerman with injuries, and indicated Zimmerman was on his back at least at some point, and that is why Zimmerman shot him. Whether it was "wrong" or not isn't clear at this point, as it's not known (to us anyway) who initiated the physical altercation.
 

etrigan420

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2007
1,723
1
71
It was a dark, rainy night, so it was probably rather odd to see someone out walking about in the neighborhood. That's worthy of attention right there. There had been a number (I have no clue how many) of break-ins or attempted break-ins in the neighborhood in recent times, and I imagine that had Zimmerman on heightened alert, and more likely to find suspicion in someone that seemed to be randomly walking about, looking at houses, especially in such conditions.

Given those 2 facts combined, and probably a little racial bias on Zimmerman's part (I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case anyway), I could easily see why Zimmerman would want to investigate what exactly this kid was up to.

Wow, so all I have to do is go out for a stroll on a drizzly night and I'm automatically assumed to be up to no good? Or is there a certain number of "break in's or attempted break in's" that have to occur before I should be wary of going for a walk?

Zimmerman lacked both the cause and authority to "investigate" anything. He was a neighborhood *watch*, not a neighborhood *investigate and question people I think are suspicious*.
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,302
1
0
The misunderstanding (how I see it) is that Zimmerman likely felt Trayvon had something to do with the recent break-ins in the neighborhood, or felt that Trayvon was acting in a peculiar manner given the weather, and how he appeared to be looking at different houses (he may have been lost in the rain/dark).

Thanks, this IS what I meant by misunderstanding.

Now, I will say it again... and I'm saying this as someone who lives in an apt complex that is probably a lot like this one in Fla. If it was up to ME, I WOULD want neighborhood watch people to have the authority to approach someone in this situation and ask if they live there. So i don't agree that Zimmerman was necessarily in the wrong for the first part of this incident. Neighborhood watch ppl should never be allowed to carry guns, though.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
24
81
Wow, so all I have to do is go out for a stroll on a drizzly night and I'm automatically assumed to be up to no good? Or is there a certain number of "break in's or attempted break in's" that have to occur before I should be wary of going for a walk?

Zimmerman lacked both the cause and authority to "investigate" anything. He was a neighborhood *watch*, not a neighborhood *investigate and question people I think are suspicious*.

A teenage boy going out for a stroll on a drizzly night doesn't seem a little atypical to you? Are you dismissing the fact that there were break-ins in the neighborhood, and that may have been why Zimmerman was in a state of heightened alert? In the 911 tape, when Zimmerman said "these a**holes always get away", he's probably (in my opinion) referring to the fact that nobody had been caught (afaik) in connection with the break-ins. I imagine this was frustrating to him, and perhaps why he became neighborhood watch captain to begin with, and felt he needed to do something about it.

From what I understand, this was a private, gated community, and there is nothing illegal about approaching someone and asking them a question on private property you partially own.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
It amazes me that some here are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman casually murdered this kid AND that the police are complicit. There is evidence that Zimmerman acted irresponsibly; there is no evidence to support an assumption of intentional murder, nor of a police cover-up.

It also amazes me that some here are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman did a completely justified and even good thing. A 17 year old kid harming no one had his life brutally snuffed out. Whether or not Zimmerman was legally or even morally justified in shooting him, Zimmerman also had the ability to make this not happen, period. This shooting was NOT a good thing. The absolute best it could be is a horrible thing.

People need to grow the fuck up. This is more than our own prejudices and biases.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
It amazes me that some here are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman casually murdered this kid AND that the police are complicit. There is evidence that Zimmerman acted irresponsibly; there is no evidence to support an assumption of intentional murder, nor of a police cover-up.

It also amazes me that some here are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman did a completely justified and even good thing. A 17 year old kid harming no one had his life brutally snuffed out. Whether or not Zimmerman was legally or even morally justified in shooting him, Zimmerman also had the ability to make this not happen, period. This shooting was NOT a good thing. The absolute best it could be is a horrible thing.

People need to grow the fuck up. This is more than our own prejudices and biases.

The police ARE fucking complicit, YOU need to grow up. Zimmerman basically has the sanford police in his back pocket:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/16/2697604/trayvon-martins-parents-criss.html

In an interview this week with the Miami Herald, Police Chief Bill Lee said the 911 calls would prove the incident was not a case of racial profiling, because when asked whether the suspect was white or black, Zimmerman did not know. However the recording clearly shows that when asked, Zimmerman said, “He looks black.” And then a few moments later, “He’s a black male.”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborho...s-questionable/story?id=15907136#.T2i1bcUgeW3

But after the shooting, a source inside the police department told ABC News that a narcotics detective and not a homicide detective first approached Zimmerman. The detective pepppered Zimmerman with questions, the source said, rather than allow Zimmerman to tell his story. Questions can lead a witness, the source said.

...

Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.
The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.

...

Lee publically admitted that officers accepted Zimmerman's word at the scene that he had no police record.
 

RedString

Senior member
Feb 24, 2011
299
0
0
It was a dark, rainy night, so it was probably rather odd to see someone out walking about in the neighborhood. That's worthy of attention right there. There had been a number (I have no clue how many) of break-ins or attempted break-ins in the neighborhood in recent times, and I imagine that had Zimmerman on heightened alert, and more likely to find suspicion in someone that seemed to be randomly walking about, looking at houses, especially in such conditions.

Given those 2 facts combined, and probably a little racial bias on Zimmerman's part (I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case anyway), I could easily see why Zimmerman would want to investigate what exactly this kid was up to.

No, I think they've said it was a little after dusk so... Not that late at all.
 

etrigan420

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2007
1,723
1
71
Going out for a stroll on a drizzly night doesn't seem a little atypical to you?

Not in the least. Why would it?

Are you dismissing the fact that there were break-ins in the neighborhood, and that may have been why Zimmerman was in a state of heightened alert?

Nope.

In the 911 tape, when Zimmerman said "these a**holes always get away", he's probably (in my opinion) referring to the fact that nobody had been caught (afaik) in connection with the break-ins.

I'm sure that's what he was referencing, although it makes no difference. It could probably be argued that this is a form of pre-meditation on Z's part.

I imagine this was frustrating to him, and perhaps why he became neighborhood watch captain to begin with, and felt he needed to do something about it.

I imagine it was frustrating as well. Still no reason to approach someone whose only "crime" was walking in the rain (and being black, but we're not supposed to talk about that).

From what I understand, this was a private, gated community, and there is nothing illegal about approaching someone and asking them a question on private property you partially own.

There's also nothing illegal about being black and walking in the rain...
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
The misunderstanding (how I see it) is that Zimmerman likely felt Trayvon had something to do with the recent break-ins in the neighborhood, or felt that Trayvon was acting in a peculiar manner given the weather, and how he appeared to be looking at different houses (he may have been lost in the rain/dark).

That is not why Zimmerman shot him, at least according to any of the evidence that you or I have available. There was a physical altercation, which left Zimmerman with injuries, and indicated Zimmerman was on his back at least at some point, and that is why Zimmerman shot him. Whether it was "wrong" or not isn't clear at this point, as it's not known (to us anyway) who initiated the physical altercation.

Wonderful. So I can start a bar fight and then shoot the other guy and claim I was afraid for my life.

If everything Zimmerman says is true, he is guilty of murder.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
Ok, according to all of you, Z is a crazy person. Now tell me how he had been doing this neighborhood watch thing for at least a year, and had not assaulted or killed anyone before?

If he was the type to just approach any male black youths and shove them around or whatever, why were there no assaults reported by him before this?

Good point. he is a rather ineffective murderer. let's leave him free until he can get his batting average up.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
I definitely won't say that there are no bad cops, because I'm sure there are plenty of them, but I think your assertions border on paranoia, without likely reason. I hope you're just speaking emotionally and not expressing how you truly feel.

There's been proven corruption in that department previously. It's in earlier posted links in this thread.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
24
81
No, I think they've said it was a little after dusk so... Not that late at all.

Many of the 911 tapes have the witnesses making comments about "it's so dark, I can't see what's going on" or something to that effect. It happened around 7:15PM on Feb 26th. Daylight savings time started on March 11th, so, being a resident of Orlando, probably 20-30 miles away from the location this happened, I can tell you that it was probably quite dark at 7:15PM, especially considering it was rainy out as well.