Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,302
1
0
a4DIG.St.56.jpg
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,418
1,599
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Florida teen Trayvon Martin was apparently chatting on a cellphone with his 16-year-old girlfriend when he was confronted -- and then killed -- by a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain. That call, says the attorney for the slain 17-year-old's family, is proof that the man did not fire in self-defense but was actually the aggressor.

Martin's Feb. 26 shooting death has been propelled onto the national stage, fueled in part by social media outrage over the unfolding facts in the case. The latest details to emerge are likely to fuel that outrage.

An attorney for the slain teen's family held a news conference Tuesday to present cellphone records that he says prove Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend at the time he was confronted in a gated community in Sanford, Fla., by George Zimmerman, 28.

The girl, whose family did not want her to be named, told ABC News that she was talking to Martin when he said he believed he was being followed. "He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on," the girl said. She then heard Trayvon say to the man, "What are you following me for?" The man then reportedly said, "What are you doing around here?"

The girl said she believes somebody then pushed Martin because she heard his earpiece fall, and then the line went dead.

The U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI have launched a probe of the shooting, and Seminole County state attorney Norm Wolfinger announced Tuesday that he would bring the case before a grand jury next month. If Martin's girlfriend testifies about what she heard that day, it could potentially undermine Zimmerman's claim to police that he opened fire on Martin because he feared for his own safety.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...l-phone-conversation-20120320,0,6034511.story
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
at least something good would come out of this. they really need to change the law.

I have no issue with castle laws or stand your ground laws. I do have issues with it allowing you to start a fight and then kill the person claiming self defense.

Yeah.

That's shocking to me.

In my state (NC) if you provoke the confrontation it is illegal for you to use your gun. Period. It doesn't matter how bad you're getting your azz kicked. It doesn't if the other person then uses their gun. If you start it, you are simply forbidden from pulling/using your gun, no exceptions. None.

Fern
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Yeah.

That's shocking to me.

In my state (NC) if you provoke the confrontation it is illegal for you to use your gun. Period. It doesn't matter how bad you're getting your azz kicked. It doesn't if the other person then uses their gun. If you start it, you are simple forbidden from pulling/using your gun, no exceptions. None.

Fern

The way it should be.
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,302
1
0

So here's what we know.
She then heard Trayvon say to the man, "What are you following me for?" The man then reportedly said, "What are you doing around here?"

She then heard the altercation. Now, my question is, where is Tray's answer? If you think that Z started the physical altercation... wouldn't he wait for an answer to his question first? To me, based on this girl's account, it's much more likely that Tray chose not to answer the question and instead started the physical altercation.

I'm still not saying Zimmerman was justified in shooting him... I don't think he should have even been carrying a gun. I'm just saying there's a good chance that Tray initiated the physical altercation.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,708
513
126
That was when Martin started viciously attacking zimmerman. Then zimmerman on his back, Martin over him beating, zimmerman calling/begging/screaming for help. bang.

You're so sure of yourself that you must be psychic hey can you send me a p.m. with some winning numbers of tonight's lottery? Doesn't have to be the jackpot numbers 4 or 5 out of 6 would be cool too.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
So here's what we know.
She then heard Trayvon say to the man, "What are you following me for?" The man then reportedly said, "What are you doing around here?"

She then heard the altercation. Now, my question is, where is Tray's answer? If you think that Z started the physical altercation... wouldn't he wait for an answer to his question first? To me, based on this girl's account, it's much more likely that Tray chose not to answer the question and instead started the physical altercation.

I'm still not saying Zimmerman was justified in shooting him... I don't think he should have even been carrying a gun. I'm just saying there's a good chance that Tray initiated the physical altercation.

After being chased and followed by a fat, creepy, stranger with no way of knowing his intentions. And we don't know what the inflection of his voice was when saying that to Trayvon.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Yeah.

That's shocking to me.

In my state (NC) if you provoke the confrontation it is illegal for you to use your gun. Period. It doesn't matter how bad you're getting your azz kicked. It doesn't if the other person then uses their gun. If you start it, you are simply forbidden from pulling/using your gun, no exceptions. None.

Fern
That sounds reasonable, although reasonable minds could still differ about what "provoke the confrontation" actually means. Is it the first thrown punch or the first shove? Or does following and confronting someone for no good reason count as provoking a confrontation?

And the girlfriend's testimony really changes nothing. Martin's earpiece could have fallen had he suddenly attacked Zimmerman or if Zimmerman attacked him.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
That was when Martin started viciously attacking zimmerman. Then zimmerman on his back, unable to escape the viciously beating, Martin over him beating, zimmerman calling/begging/screaming for help.

bang.

Yup, like a little bitch, unable to defend himself from the kid, 100 lbs. lighter than him, that he was stalking, and then attacked. That's why he's in hiding, right? Why can't he stand his ground now? He's not indicted. He's not in jail. He is a free man. Why doesn't he show everyone how tough he is by continuing to CC around town?

Oh, that's right, when he's not out hunting frightened unarmed black children in his neighborhood, he just a big, fat, racist loser who would get his teeth kicked in before he knew what hit him. What a pathetic loser. No wonder you relate.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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Yup, like a little bitch, unable to defend himself from the kid, 100 lbs. lighter than him, that he was stalking, and then attacked. That's why he's in hiding, right? Why can't he stand his ground now? He's not indicted. He's not in jail. He is a free man. Why doesn't he show everyone how tough he is by continuing to CC around town?

Oh, that's right, when he's not out hunting frightened unarmed black children in his neighborhood, he just a big, fat, racist loser who would get his teeth kicked in before he knew what hit him. What a pathetic loser. No wonder you relate.

More calls for violence against an innocent hispanic man.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
That was when Martin started viciously attacking zimmerman. Then zimmerman on his back, unable to escape the viciously beating, Martin over him beating, zimmerman calling/begging/screaming for help.

bang.

Spidey, I know you have issues, but no matter how much you keep repeating this, it will never make it true.

Why would Zimmerman wait for Martin's answer? He already concluded that Martin was up to something, so he probably attacked first. Cowards who hide behind guns tend to do that.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Spidey, I know you have issues, but no matter how much you keep repeating this, it will never make it true.

Why would Zimmerman wait for Martin's answer? He already concluded that Martin was up to something, so he probably attacked first. Cowards who hide behind guns tend to do that.

So you have evidence of this then? Police, evidence, witnesses accounts say otherwise. Stop making shit up in your head.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,708
513
126
More calls for violence against an innocent hispanic man.

He may very well be found "not guilty" if any charges end up being filed because the self-defense standard in Florida.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-20/trayvon-martin-teen-shot-florida/53669448/1

Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law is getting new attention in the wake of the Trayvon Martin case.
The state passed the law in 2005 that stated "a person being attacked has no duty to retreat, they may return force with force, and are protected from criminal prosecution for using force through immunity," according to National Conference of State Legislatures.
Recently, several "stand your ground" or "shoot first" laws have emerged. At least 30 states explicitly state there is no duty to retreat, according to the organization.
State Rep. Dennis Baxley, who sponsored Florida's law, told the Associated Press it wasn't written to give people the power to pursue and confront others.
"That's not what this legislation does," Baxley said. "Unfortunately, every time there is an unfortunate incident involving a firearm, they think it's about this law, and it's not."
Fla. State Sen. Oscar Braynon, who represents Miami Gardens where Trayvon Martin lived with his mother, said he is calling for hearings or a select committee to take a fresh look at the law.
He said since the law was enacted the number of justified homicides in the state have skyrocketed. He said in 2005 the state had 43 cases of justified homicides. In 2009, the last complete year available, there were 105.
"I think there is vigilante justice happening and I think people are getting shot," he said. "This is an unintended consequence of the law."

I hope something really comes out of that bolded part.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
You know, I was just thinking about this.

It does not matter WHAT this kid was doing. Most likely he was NOT going to attack a guy like this, solo.

99% of kids, even if they are doing something wrong, will rather just bolt than beat their chest and start something. It does not matter if he was on his way to perform heart surgery after escorting an old lady back home or if he was planning on breaking into a house in the gated community.

Jimmy Yahoo here was wrong to draw on him and even more wrong to kill him.

Period.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
He may very well be found "not guilty" if any charges end up being filed because the self-defense standard in Florida.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-20/trayvon-martin-teen-shot-florida/53669448/1



I hope something really comes out of that bolded part.

yeah i think the same. While i really believe Z should be tried for murder (and so far from the evidence i hae seen guilty of it) i do believe because of a badly written law he is going to get away with it.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
That sounds reasonable, although reasonable minds could still differ about what "provoke the confrontation" actually means. Is it the first thrown punch or the first shove? Or does following and confronting someone for no good reason count as provoking a confrontation?

Yeah, well I think those are always going to be questions no matter which law you're under.

But IMO, when you have a CC law like we do, it tends to pressure you to be on your best behavior when you're carrying.

And the girlfriend's testimony really changes nothing. Martin's earpiece could have fallen had he suddenly attacked Zimmerman or if Zimmerman attacked him.

Yep.

It's merely her interpretation of the sounds/noises since she didn't actually see anything.

Fern
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
That was when Martin started viciously attacking zimmerman. Then zimmerman on his back, unable to escape the viciously beating, Martin over him beating, zimmerman calling/begging/screaming for help.

bang.

You're actually completely wrong.

Martin was wailing for help while viciously beating Zimmerman, he did this because he already knew the area was full of pussies, their 240lb neighborhood watch captain was getting beat up by a 140lb 17 y/o, so screamed and cried and begged for help knowing the neighborhood would be too full of pussies to come out and SEE anything, they would only HEAR, the screams of a teenager.

This ploy would give him all the evidence he needed to show that he was the one being attacked, nobody would be able to be an eyewitness to the story outside of the combatants. That all changed when your man Z pulled out his gun and quickly blew his wail, cry, beg while viciously assaulting the defenseless 240lb plan to smithereens.

Bang.
Good Shoot.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
You're actually completely wrong.

Martin was wailing for help while viciously beating Zimmerman, he did this because he already knew the area was full of pussies, their 240lb neighborhood watch captain was getting beat up by a 140lb 17 y/o, so screamed and cried and begged for help knowing the neighborhood would be too full of pussies to come out and SEE anything, they would only HEAR, the screams of a teenager.

This ploy would give him all the evidence he needed to show that he was the one being attacked, nobody would be able to be an eyewitness to the story outside of the combatants. That all changed when your man Z pulled out his gun and quickly blew his wail, cry, beg while viciously assaulting the defenseless 240lb plan to smithereens.

Bang.
Good Shoot.

Are you ignoring the EYE witness that saw martin over zimmerman beating him?

Are you ignoring all the other evidence that say zimmerman's account is correct? If there was some evidence it wasn't then they would have probable cause and arrest him. Police say they just don't have anything to refute his story (WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY PRESENT) and is backed up by physical evidence, eye witness tesimony, etc.

Why are so many simply refusing to ignore all of that facts?
 
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Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
106
More calls for violence against an innocent hispanic man.

you mean cold blooded killer looking for a chance to kill someone and then try and get away with it. Someone should go up and shoot him in the face, they have a better self defense claim than he ever did.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
106
The funny this is that all these people defending Z, are the ones that would be defending T if he had a gun and shot Z.