Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
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londojowo.hypermart.net
You're starting to sound like spidey here. No one mentioned multiple punches or any punches at all in either call. The mother of the deceased has already claimed it was her son crying for help in the multiple seconds before the shot rang out.

"beating up the other guy" sounds a lot like multiple punches were being thrown.

Forensics also have not come out and we don't know if Z shot M from under him or not.

Yet the police do have that evidence and may also corroborate Mr Zimmerman's claim to self defense. The police did say that has evidence and testimony that backed up some of his story.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,708
514
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More than anything, I'm defending the PD's handling of the case.

Well, there's no reason to attribute malice to the SPD, however that doesn't mean that they made no missteps in the investigation.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-con...da-teen/story?id=15937881&page=2#.T2irhIHe5I5

But after the shooting, a source inside the police department told ABC News that a narcotics detective and not a homicide detective first approached Zimmerman. The detective peppered Zimmerman with questions, the source said, rather than allow Zimmerman to tell his story. Questions can lead a witness, the source said.

As for them not vigorously investigating the claims of self defense?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._law-enforcement-castle-doctrine-deadly-force

Q: How did law enforcement respond to the law?
A: Prosecutors across the state opposed the law before it was enacted Oct. 1, 2005. In the following five months, there were at least 13 shootings in Central Florida where self-defense was claimed. Out of six men killed and four more wounded in the cases, only one was armed. Some Orlando-area police agencies simply stopped investigating shootings involving self-defense claims and referred them directly to state prosecutors to decide.

Any law that results in police not even investigating shootings is just fucking bad.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
136
There are callers who said that there are two men fighting on the lawn. I take that to mean they are punching, since that is what you do in a fight. Or maybe kicking. whatever.

The mother of the deceased is obviously biased. I feel badly for her, but you can't just go by what she thinks she heard, because it really is inconclusive who is screaming, though I suspect that Z being under T would likely be screaming since he is under T.

We know that T ended up face-down on the ground with a gunshot to his chest. That sounds like shooting someone out from under.

Here is a possibility.

They were wrestling on the ground (witnessed). Z pulls the gun out. T sees it and seperates, stands up. Z points gun at T while still on the ground. T begs for life. Z shoots T. T falls face down. Remember nobody actually saw T striking Z at all let alone from the standing position.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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Here is a possibility.

They were wrestling on the ground (witnessed). Z pulls the gun out. T sees it and seperates, stands up. Z points gun at T while still on the ground. T begs for life. Z shoots T. T falls face down. Remember nobody actually saw T striking Z at all let alone from the standing position.

that is possible but it is not backed up by any evidence. I agree that it is possible. edit: if I were T I would probably be stunned into silence by a gun being pulled.
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Here is a possibility.

They were wrestling on the ground (witnessed). Z pulls the gun out. T sees it and seperates, stands up. Z points gun at T while still on the ground. T begs for life. Z shoots T. T falls face down. Remember nobody actually saw T striking Z at all let alone from the standing position.

I believe there ballistic evidence will show the angle of entry of the slug and possible exit.

I disagree with no one saw T striking Z.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1pbSX6gLs

The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
There are callers who said that there are two men fighting on the lawn. I take that to mean they are punching, since that is what you do in a fight. Or maybe kicking. whatever.

The mother of the deceased is obviously biased. I feel badly for her, but you can't just go by what she thinks she heard, because it really is inconclusive who is screaming, though I suspect that Z being under T would likely be screaming since he is under T.

We know that T ended up face-down on the ground with a gunshot to his chest. That sounds like shooting someone out from under.

Or someone who was shot standing up and fell foward.

The mother wasn't sure at first whether it was her son until the audio was cleaned up on the tapes, then she said it was her son. You don't think a mother would know the sound of her son's voice? You actually believe she could mistake Z for her own son? That's a stretch.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
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Or someone who was shot standing up and fell foward.

The mother wasn't sure at first whether it was her son until the audio was cleaned up on the tapes, then she said it was her son. You don't think a mother would know the sound of her son's voice? You actually believe she could mistake Z for her own son? That's a stretch.

Pretend that it is in-fact Z's voice that is screaming. Do you think the mother would objectively say that it is not her son? Really? I would believe anything that helped my dead son.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
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Or someone who was shot standing up and fell foward.

The mother wasn't sure at first whether it was her son until the audio was cleaned up on the tapes, then she said it was her son. You don't think a mother would know the sound of her son's voice? You actually believe she could mistake Z for her own son? That's a stretch.

Yeah, the mother said it was Z. The women on the scene heard a boy. But our illustrious armchair general knows it was Zimmerman.

Okie dokie.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
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Or someone who was shot standing up and fell foward.

The mother wasn't sure at first whether it was her son until the audio was cleaned up on the tapes, then she said it was her son. You don't think a mother would know the sound of her son's voice? You actually believe she could mistake Z for her own son? That's a stretch.
She might have no clue what her son would sound like uttering a shriek of mortal terror a good distance away from a muffled phone. Couple that with the fact that, as she is listening to the recording, she is envisioning a scene in her head which may or may not be even close to accurate, and that picture in her head affects how she perceives the sounds she hears.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Pretend that it is in-fact Z's voice that is screaming. Do you think the mother would objectively say that it is not her son? Really? I would believe anything that helped my dead son.

That can be proved in a trial. An audio expert can prove it was or wasn't Z crying. Z is still alive so a voice match can be made.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
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That can be proved in a trial. An audio expert can prove it was or wasn't Z crying. Z is still alive so a voice match can be made.

1. he was under duress so his voice was hitting notes that you don't get in spoken situations.

2. This is echoed through a telephone call, and all of its imperfections. It was so muddy that it sounded like a cell phone, not a landline.

3. From Z's 911 call, he has a high-pitched feminine voice.
 

Theb

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
3,533
9
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I don't think he is a racist, no. He has no history of anything racist and is related by blood to several black people.

The issue is that this law has been used many times in the past to allow people who kill in public to walk, and it hasn't been struck down before. I simply don't see how the feds can strike it down.

And he probably just happened to see some raccoons at 1:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
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She believes what she wants to believe because she is his mother. That's not too much of a stretch.

As a parent, I can tell you we don't want to hear our kids dying scream, it would be painful as hell.

But I doubt people like you would understand what a parent go through in that situation.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
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As a parent, I can tell you we don't want to hear our kids dying scream, it would be painful as hell.

But I doubt people like you would understand what a parent go through in that situation.

Did I say it wasn't painful? All I said was that she obviously is on one side of the dispute and any defense attorney would cite this in a court of law in casting doubts on her opinion.