Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
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From the same Orlando Sentinel article.

I think that there is some relevant information that you left out... It's helpful to quote things in the entire context.

the entire quote for that Q&A is

Q: What do critics of the law say?

Arthur C. Hayhoe, director of the Florida Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, calls the law "a right to commit murder."

"I predict this case is not going to be charged — it's going to be dismissed," he said of the case against Zimmerman. "Almost every case between two individuals where one was armed and the other was not is dismissed."

Even supporters of the law say it has its limits.

" 'Stand Your Ground' is not a 007 license to kill," said Sean Caranna, founder of Florida Carry, a group advocating gun owners' rights. He stressed that shooting in self-defense requires " a real fear your life is in danger."

So while supporters of the law think it should have limits it's perhaps having more far reaching consequences than they may have wanted... While they may have not intended to giver out a "007 license to kill" that's just what may very well have happened.
 
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classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
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I'm just pointing out if you don't want to get shot, don't beat somebody on the ground, on their back, screaming for their life.

You keep bringing up all this other stuff that doesn't matter.

Zimmerman on his back
Zimmerman being beaten
Zimmerman crying for help

I am still awaiting some evidence that shows Martin was not the aggressor who initiated the attack, and it really doesn't matter - on his back, being beaten, crying for help/his life. That moment right there is clearly self defense.

Zimmerman chased Martin. He was told not to pursue him. He did anyway. Zimmerman through HIS actions caused a confrontation. At that point Martin is the one who according to Fla. should have had the right to fight off his assailant, who had TWICE approached him. Martin ran in trying to avoid a confrontation. So all your who was the aggressor bs, it is pretty clear who was the aggressor.

Martin COMMITTED NO CRIME and Zimmerman had NO LEGAL AUTHORITY TO PURSUE OR QUESTION MARTIN. So Martin had every single right to beat the shit out of a person who TWICE tried to approach him, despite the fact he ran from the guy the first time.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
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londojowo.hypermart.net
I think that there is some relevant information that you left out... It's helpful to quote things in the entire context.

the entire quote for that Q&A is



So while supporters of the law think it should have limits it's perhaps having more far reaching consequences than they may have wanted... While they may have not intended to giver out a "007 license to kill" that's just what may very well have happened.

I suspect that this case will be the catalyst to get the law revised. I think Texas' Castle Law is more sensible.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
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I suspect that this case will be the catalyst to get the law revised. I think Texas' Castle Law is more sensible.

I hope your right about it being changed. Unfortunately even if the law is changed... it won't take back an entirely avoidable tragedy.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
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Going back to the call reported in the ABC story... after having reread it.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T2h1_MUgdJg

ABC News was there exclusively as the 16-year-old girl told Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump about the last moments of the teenager's life.

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.

Trayvon's phone logs, also obtained exclusively by ABC News, show the conversation occurred five minutes before police first arrived on scene. The young woman's parents asked that her name not be used, and that only an attorney could ask her questions.

Martin's father, Tracey Martin, and mother, Sybrina Fulton, listened to the call along with ABC News, ashen-faced.

does that last part mean that the phone call was recorded? Or am I reading too much into that part of the story?
That's kind of disturbing if you like the fourth amendment but can also show that Trayvon Martin wasn't looking for trouble to afraid that it was looking for him in his last minutes.
 
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classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
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Even more, also the Feds are now going to investigate.

http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-justice-d...-martin-neighborhood-201122326--abc-news.html

Zimmerman also blatantly violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned.

The manual, from the National Neighborhood Watch Program, states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous."


According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch Program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and Zimmerman was not part of a registered group -- another fact the police were not aware of at the time of the incident.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Going back to the call reported in the ABC story... after having reread it.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T2h1_MUgdJg



does that last part mean that the phone call was recorded? Or am I reading too much into that part or the story?
That's kind of disturbing if you like the fourth amendment but can also show that Trayvon Martin wasn't looking for trouble to afraid that it was looking for him in his last minutes.

I don't believe it's a recording but rather the lawyer (with the family listening) talking to the friend on the phone and her describing the phone conversation with Trayvon.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
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from that:

Law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler, who listened to the tapes, told ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.
"When I listened to the 911 tape, the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he's slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away, and I think that's going to be an important element of this entire investigation," Wheeler said.



damn. a little late to test him though.

as more info comes out the more sure i am that Z should be charged with murder.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
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I hope it causes law makers to take a very close look at this law and have the courage to revise the law.

I agree. As it is now you can start a fight and then shoot the guy when he kicks your ass. That has never been or intended by the law. Texas has it right where they make sure that is stated.

The sad part is because of how badly written the law is Z MAY get away with murder.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
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My issue with Mary Cutcher's testimony is that this is what she heard screaming and she saw from up in her townhouse Zimmerman standing over Martin after he had shot him.

That is it.

From there she has stated that she is certain that the screaming was Martin's and that Zimmerman is a racist who shot him in cold blood. That isn't eyewitness testimony at that point. It is opinion.

The call with the girl is a very important new twist and it refuted part of Zimmerman's story about walking back to his car when Martin then attacked him from behind. I believe it is grounds for an arrest, since it casts legitimate doubt on Zimmerman's story.

Still, the next important part IMO is when 2 eyewitnesses saw Martin on top of Zimmerman and Martin punching while Zimmerman was screaming.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
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Going back to the call reported in the ABC story... after having reread it.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T2h1_MUgdJg



does that last part mean that the phone call was recorded? Or am I reading too much into that part of the story?
That's kind of disturbing if you like the fourth amendment but can also show that Trayvon Martin wasn't looking for trouble to afraid that it was looking for him in his last minutes.

Hopefully, Spidey and Akly will stop claiming the kid was looking for trouble. He just wanted to get away from Zimmerman and paid for it with his life.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
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He hasn't changed his story. If you paid attention to the Police Chief during the press conference the day they turned the case over to the state's attorneys he mentioned that Martin had gotten out of his truck to verify the address he was at.

So a guy who is on patrol almost every night, who has called the cops on average almost every night of the year isn't sure of the street names??

Maybe this guy was a little drunk or high? Why didn't police take blood from Z?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
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Hopefully, Spidey and Akly will stop claiming the kid was looking for trouble. He just wanted to get away from Zimmerman and paid for it with his life.

So now that it can be shown T was doing nothing but trying to get away from Z they will continue to focus on Treyvon's, nickname, posted pictures, hoodie wearing, suspension from school, his playing school football. Anything to distract from Zimmerman

The fellating of Zimmerman will continue by them.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
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So now that it can be shown T was doing nothing but trying to get away from Z they will continue to focus on Treyvon's, nickname, posted pictures, hoodie wearing, suspension from school, his playing school football. Anything to distract from Zimmerman

The fellating of Zimmerman will continue by them.

of course. racist need something to attack. we all know a kid who is tardy to school all the time, wears a hoodie and plays football needs to be shot.

glad they weren't around when i was a kid..i just described me but i'm white so i think i am safe.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
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also reading that this was at least the third time Z pursued people who he thought were suspicious...

Great point, btw, about him not knowing the street names - if he lives there, and is constantly driving around looking for suspicious activity, how does he not know where he is or what the street names are? He kept referring to the clubhouse as a point of reference, but why didn't he just use the street names?

The call that Martin was on - to me it's the final nail in the coffin for this dispute - Martin was clearly not the aggressor - case closed - this is at the very least manslaughter.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,708
514
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His nickname was slim right? I agree that it's a dumb thing to focus on given the much more relevant evidence available what's so shady about that he was skinny and it could have been coined by a smart aleck football coach.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
also reading that this was at least the third time Z pursued people who he thought were suspicious...

Great point, btw, about him not knowing the street names - if he lives there, and is constantly driving around looking for suspicious activity, how does he not know where he is or what the street names are? He kept referring to the clubhouse as a point of reference, but why didn't he just use the street names?

The call that Martin was on - to me it's the final nail in the coffin for this dispute - Martin was clearly not the aggressor - case closed - this is at the very least manslaughter.

I do wonder why it took them so long to get her to talk. But yes, she changes everything and will be the reason why Mr. Zimmerman is ultimately arrested.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
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The thing that bothers me, even if you step back from a lot of stuff in this case. One thing is for sure, if you are telling me, that I can initiate a confrontation that turns physical. That I can then shoot and kill the person and be protected by claiming self defense, that just boggles the mind. And now knowing after the fact the person who died did nothing wrong, its just insane to think a guy is walking free.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
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I do wonder why it took them so long to get her to talk. But yes, she changes everything and will be the reason why Mr. Zimmerman is ultimately arrested.

The Sanford police up until now have been the only ones to investigate. Even the family had to sue to get the 911 tapes released.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
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His nickname was slim right? I agree that it's a dumb thing to focus on given the much more relevant evidence available what's so shady about that he was skinny and it could have been coined by a smart aleck football coach.

wait..his nickname is slim? people are talking shit against him because his nickname was slim? really? LOL