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UK Soldier admit crimes

tommywishbone

Platinum Member
Winning the hearts & minds one crimial act at-a-time? Those people are going to hate our F-ing guts for generations.

UK soldier admits war crime against Iraqis By Jeremy Lovell
1 hour, 31 minutes ago.

BULFORD CAMP (Reuters) - A British soldier pleaded guilty on Tuesday to committing a war crime by inhumanely treating detainees while serving in Iraq.

Corporal Donald Payne is one of seven British soldiers facing court martial over the death in custody three years ago of an Iraqi hotel receptionist in the southern city of Basra.

Five of the seven were serving with the Queens Lancashire Regiment while two others were with the Intelligence Corps at the time of the death of Baha Musa after his arrest by a British patrol six months after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

The men face charges ranging from manslaughter to negligence.

Musa, the court heard, had 93 injuries on his body, including a broken nose and ribs, while another detainee was so badly beaten that he nearly died from kidney failure.

All were held in a raid on a Basra hotel as the insurgency grew. Guns, grenades, ammunition, bayonets and a sniper scope were found in the raid.

Britain, Washington's main ally in Iraq, has investigated scores of deaths and injuries of Iraqis since joining the war.

Three British soldiers were jailed in February 2005 for abusing Iraqi detainees in a case that drew comparisons with the mistreatment of Iraqis by U.S. troops at the Abu Ghraib prison.

Chief among the accused is Payne, 35, who is charged with the manslaughter of Musa, inhumane treatment of prisoners and trying to pervert the cause of justice by getting people to lie about the cause of death.

"SYSTEMATIC ABUSE"

The prosecution accused Payne, a military policeman in charge of the detainees, of beatings, sleep deprivation and forcing the men to stand for hours in extremely painful positions.

"We are dealing in this case with systematic abuse against prisoners involving unacceptable violence against persons who were detained in custody, hooded, handcuffed and wholly unable to protect themselves," prosecutor Julian Bevan told the 7-man court martial panel.

He accused Payne of being mainly responsible for the abuse, which included tweaking of nipples, punching and forcing the drinking of urine.

Payne pleaded guilty to inhumane treatment of Iraqi detainees -- a war crime -- but not guilty to the other two charges.

Also in court were Sergeant Kelvin Stacey, 29, charged with assault causing actual bodily harm, Lance Corporal Wayne Crowcroft, 22, and Private Darren Fallon, 23, charged with the inhumane treatment of detainees.

Major Michael Peebles, 35, and Warrant Officer Mark Davies, 37, both of the Intelligence Corps, and Commanding Officer Colonel Jorge Mendonca are all charged with negligently performing a duty by failing to stop the abuse.

All six pleaded not guilty.

In pre-trial hearings, Judge Stuart McKinnon ruled that no pictures or images of the accused or details of their home addresses or locations may be published for fear of revenge attacks on them or their families.

The trial at the Bulford army camp near Salisbury, 70 miles southwest of London, is expected to last up to four months.

 
Post a link to all these articles so we can read them ourselves and determine whether the source is honest and non-biased.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Post a link to all these articles so we can read them ourselves and determine whether the source is honest and non-biased.

Look at the scums that started this war.. you need no fuhrer proof than that.
 
Originally posted by: tommywishbone
Winning the hearts & minds one crimial act at-a-time? Those people are going to hate our F-ing guts for generations.

----SNIP----

I lol @ you...do you really think the middle east would hate us any LESS had we not gone into Iraq? LOL You are severely naive, sir. They already hated us enough to make not one, but two attempts and one successful at eliminating the WTC, attacking a US Navy Destroyer, need I go on? Are you high? LOL They will always hate us as long as the Qoran is their guide. We are infidels.
 
I lol @ you...do you really think the middle east would hate us any LESS had we not gone into Iraq? LOL You are severely naive, sir. They already hated us enough to make not one, but two attempts and one successful at eliminating the WTC, attacking a US Navy Destroyer, need I go on? Are you high? LOL They will always hate us as long as the Qoran is their guide. We are infidels.

Who is "They" that attacked us? You truly feel the entire mid east was behind the WTV attacks, the attacked a US Navy Ship? Oh please.
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: tommywishbone
Winning the hearts & minds one crimial act at-a-time? Those people are going to hate our F-ing guts for generations.

----SNIP----

I lol @ you...do you really think the middle east would hate us any LESS had we not gone into Iraq? LOL You are severely naive, sir. They already hated us enough to make not one, but two attempts and one successful at eliminating the WTC, attacking a US Navy Destroyer, need I go on? Are you high? LOL They will always hate us as long as the Qoran is their guide. We are infidels.

al-Qaeda doesn't occupy the entire Middle East (nor do they speak for the entire region), last time I checked. Not only did we find no link between the Iraqi government and al-Qaeda, but the hijackers all originated from countries we consider our allies.

Have you been to the Middle East? Talked to any people from there? I have, and they don't hate Americans. They, like most of the world (I've talked to a lot of Europeans too) hate our government and know that we have quite a bit of dissent about the war at home. Besides that, they are rather indifferent about America. They are people who want the same things we do.

But keep spouting nonsense if you want.
 
Originally posted by: magomago
I lol @ you...do you really think the middle east would hate us any LESS had we not gone into Iraq? LOL You are severely naive, sir. They already hated us enough to make not one, but two attempts and one successful at eliminating the WTC, attacking a US Navy Destroyer, need I go on? Are you high? LOL They will always hate us as long as the Qoran is their guide. We are infidels.

Who is "They" that attacked us? You truly feel the entire mid east was behind the WTV attacks, the attacked a US Navy Ship? Oh please.

Watch out dude, he LOL'd @ U!!! Fear his l33t AIM skills.
 
blackangst1

Pretty strong statement. Are you aware that we have been doing things to piss them off in the M.E. for decades? Some may distort thier religion to justify their actions, but it was us that gerenated their anger.
 
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: tommywishbone
Winning the hearts & minds one crimial act at-a-time? Those people are going to hate our F-ing guts for generations.

----SNIP----

I lol @ you...do you really think the middle east would hate us any LESS had we not gone into Iraq? LOL You are severely naive, sir. They already hated us enough to make not one, but two attempts and one successful at eliminating the WTC, attacking a US Navy Destroyer, need I go on? Are you high? LOL They will always hate us as long as the Qoran is their guide. We are infidels.

al-Qaeda doesn't occupy the entire Middle East (nor do they speak for the entire region),
Never suggested they did

last time I checked. Not only did we find no link between the Iraqi government and al-Qaeda, never, ever implied that

but the hijackers all originated from countries we consider our allies. *shrug* OK

Have you been to the Middle East? Yes. Several times.

Talked to any people from there? Dated a few, so yes

I have, and they don't hate Americans. They, like most of the world (I've talked to a lot of Europeans too) hate our government Actually, it's Qoran believing muslims that hate what we stand for.

and know that we have quite a bit of dissent about the war at home. Besides that, they are rather indifferent about America. They are people who want the same things we do.

But keep spouting nonsense if you want.

Ever read the Qoran? It's not a peace-inspiring book. Countries like Turkey, Kuwait, and UAE obviously desire freedom as we do, but most muslim countries are ruled by leaders who are steeped in Qoran bullshit. There's nothing non-sensical at all about what I said. However, nice try putting words in my mouth 🙂
 
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
blackangst1

Pretty strong statement. Are you aware that we have been doing things to piss them off in the M.E. for decades? Some may distort thier religion to justify their actions, but it was us that gerenated their anger.

Of course I am aware, thus my comment. Whether or not we went into Iraq, it makes no difference to these countries we are trying to "liberate"...they have and always will hate us...unless, like I said, they get the Qoran out of their government and religion.
 
blackie, trust me, anyone reading your post doesn't think I put words in your mouth.

Why did you put "liberate" in quotes. Finally understanding the futility of your own viewpoint (even subconciously)?
 
Originally posted by: jpeyton
blackie, trust me, anyone reading your post doesn't think I put words in your mouth.

Why did you put "liberate" in quotes. Finally understanding the futility of your own viewpoint (even subconciously)?

Because, IMHO, we will never liberate any country whose gov't and it's people are so against what America stands for. Maybe suprising to you, but I think we arent spending our resources wisely by our over-involvement in the middle east.

The way you threw in the whol;e "no link between Iraq and Al Quada", blah blah blah is just flamebait from you, and I was calling you out on it. It's irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which is winning the hearts and minds of middle easterners.
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: jpeyton
blackie, trust me, anyone reading your post doesn't think I put words in your mouth.

Why did you put "liberate" in quotes. Finally understanding the futility of your own viewpoint (even subconciously)?

Because, IMHO, we will never liberate any country whose gov't and it's people are so against what America stands for. Maybe suprising to you, but I think we arent spending our resources wisely by our over-involvement in the middle east.

The way you threw in the whol;e "no link between Iraq and Al Quada", blah blah blah is just flamebait from you, and I was calling you out on it. It's irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which is winning the hearts and minds of middle easterners.

Well we finally agree on something. We are definitely meddling in the Middle East. We should never have been in a country that didn't want us there. We overspent resources in Iraq, instead of using it to finish off the Taliban/al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. We stretched our military so thin that we can't credibly use the threat of force to prevent other regimes from getting real WMDs (not the invisible ones in Iraq).

We can't win the hearts and minds of people in the Middle East with half-assed wars like the ones we're fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Post a link to all these articles so we can read them ourselves and determine whether the source is honest and non-biased.

If it was from the washington post, would you consider it legit or not????

:laugh:
 
Originally posted by: Pens1566
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Post a link to all these articles so we can read them ourselves and determine whether the source is honest and non-biased.

If it was from the washington post, would you consider it legit or not????

:laugh:

Nice one Pens1566.
Read what I said:
I said I was suspect of the source and that I was going to withhold judgment.
You seem to want to turn that statement into me not believing anything in the Post which is not what I said.
I am suspect of the source of this article/book. An anti-Bush newspaper writes a book that is anti-Bush, should we be surprised?

I can't find any reviews by politically neutral or right wing magazines or web sites so I will with hold judgment until then.

From what I have read it does look pretty bad, but don't fool yourself into thinking that the Clinton's and just about every other politician doesn't do the same thing, or have you forgotten about the travel office scandal?

Think of it this way, how would you people on the left react to a book by Oliver North that talked about the great job our Military did in Afghanistan or Iraq? Be honest.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Pens1566
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Post a link to all these articles so we can read them ourselves and determine whether the source is honest and non-biased.

If it was from the washington post, would you consider it legit or not????

:laugh:

Nice one Pens1566.
Read what I said:
I said I was suspect of the source and that I was going to withhold judgment.
You seem to want to turn that statement into me not believing anything in the Post which is not what I said.
I am suspect of the source of this article/book. An anti-Bush newspaper writes a book that is anti-Bush, should we be surprised?

I can't find any reviews by politically neutral or right wing magazines or web sites so I will with hold judgment until then.

From what I have read it does look pretty bad, but don't fool yourself into thinking that the Clinton's and just about every other politician doesn't do the same thing, or have you forgotten about the travel office scandal?

Think of it this way, how would you people on the left react to a book by Oliver North that talked about the great job our Military did in Afghanistan or Iraq? Be honest.

Conveniently not answering the question.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Pens1566
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Post a link to all these articles so we can read them ourselves and determine whether the source is honest and non-biased.

If it was from the washington post, would you consider it legit or not????

:laugh:

Nice one Pens1566.
Read what I said:
I said I was suspect of the source and that I was going to withhold judgment.
You seem to want to turn that statement into me not believing anything in the Post which is not what I said.
I am suspect of the source of this article/book. An anti-Bush newspaper writes a book that is anti-Bush, should we be surprised?

I can't find any reviews by politically neutral or right wing magazines or web sites so I will with hold judgment until then.

From what I have read it does look pretty bad, but don't fool yourself into thinking that the Clinton's and just about every other politician doesn't do the same thing, or have you forgotten about the travel office scandal?

Think of it this way, how would you people on the left react to a book by Oliver North that talked about the great job our Military did in Afghanistan or Iraq? Be honest.

If you haven't noticed for yourself man, whenever a Washington Post article or comment is pro Bush or anti Democrat, you post it as a valid source. Then whenever a Washington Post comment or article is anti-Bush or pro Democrat, you immediately make some comment about how it's a liberal paper and can't be a trusted source. In other words, you're full of crap! We all have noticed it by now, and I've only noticed you in the last week or two and it didn't take me very long to notice the crap spilling out of you.
 
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
blackangst1

Pretty strong statement. Are you aware that we have been doing things to piss them off in the M.E. for decades? Some may distort thier religion to justify their actions, but it was us that gerenated their anger.

Excuse me?
They hate us because they are being told to hate us.

There is no other explanation for the transition from these pictures to what we are seeing today. (EDIT: spontaneous reaction my ass -- Young children fight U.S. troops in Iraq)

One example:
Interviewer: Who do you think is behind the [Samarra mosque] bombing?

Muqtada Al-Sadr: The hand that holds the weapons is always America or Israel, or the accursed triangle of Israel, America, and Britain. But the weapon itself may change. It may be those tho accuse others of heresy, it may be the Ba'thists, and it may be others, only Allah knows.

There's plenty of that kind of rhetoric from Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc....
 
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