UK may charge clerics with treason

[Tommunist]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/08/london.treason.ap/index.html

LONDON, England (AP) -- British prosecutors say they are considering treason charges against any Islamic extremists who express support for terrorism.

Attorney General Lord Goldsmith's office said the Crown Prosecution Service's head of anti-terrorism would meet with senior Metropolitan Police officers to discuss possible charges against three prominent clerics as part of a crackdown on those the government believes are inciting terrorism.

Clerics Omar Bakri Mohammed, Abu Izzaden and Abu Uzair, have appeared on British television in recent days(Bakri: UK government to blame)

Goldsmith's office said prosecutors and police would look at remarks made by the three and consider whether they could face charges of treason, incitement to treason, solicitation of murder, or incitement to withhold information known to be of use to police.

Bakri Mohammed has reportedly said since the July 7 attacks that he would not inform police if he knew Muslims were planning another attack and he supports insurgents who attack troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"No decision on charges has been made yet," the attorney general's office spokeswoman said, speaking anonymously because British civil servants cannot be named.

The spokeswoman said prosecutors may also seek access to taped recordings made by an undercover Sunday Times reporter who reportedly recorded members of a radical group praising the suicide bombers as "The Fantastic Four."

The newspaper's story said its reporter spent two months as a "recruit" of the group, the Savior Sect, and described the organization as inciting young British Muslims to become terrorists.

I personally think this is a slippery slope. Who defines what is terrorism? Who decides what is support? Seems to go against freedom in general.

 

[Genx87]

It is a slippery slope and not a very easy decision to make for me.

The very freedoms we enjoy in the west may be the reason for our downfall.
The question is how much freedom do we want to give up to ensure survival?

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: Genx87
It is a slippery slope and not a very easy decision to make for me.

The very freedoms we enjoy in the west may be the reason for our downfall.
The question is how much freedom do we want to give up to ensure survival?

if we give up our freedoms haven't the "terrorists won" ?

 

[zendari]

If we are dead the terrorists have certainly won.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: zendari
If we are dead the terrorists have certainly won.

that's true - but you have added nearly nothing to the discussion. try again

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: zendari
If we are dead the terrorists have certainly won.

Hey, remember that man that said, "give me liberty or give me death?" Or how about New Hampshire (i think that's the state) that has the license plate inscription, "live free or die."

We certainly don't raise patriots like we used to :brokenheart:

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: NJDevil

Originally posted by: zendari
If we are dead the terrorists have certainly won.

Hey, remember that man that said, "give me liberty or give me death?" Or how about New Hampshire (i think that's the state) that has the license plate inscription, "live free or die."

We certainly don't raise patriots like we used to :brokenheart:

hey that's my home state

and no they certainly don't raise patriots or other people in general like they used to...

"Men hang out their signs indicative of their respective trades; shoe makers hang out a gigantic shoe; jewelers a monster watch, and the dentist hangs out a gold tooth; but up in the Mountains of New Hampshire, God Almighty has hung out a sign to show that there He makes men."
- Daniel Webster (re: the Old Man on the Mountain)

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Tommunist

Originally posted by: Genx87
It is a slippery slope and not a very easy decision to make for me.

The very freedoms we enjoy in the west may be the reason for our downfall.
The question is how much freedom do we want to give up to ensure survival?

if we give up our freedoms haven't the "terrorists won" ?

In a way yes and that is the crux of the matter. We can continue to allow freedom to call people to incite terrorist acts and eventually our countries rot from the inside out.

Or we can start taking away such freedoms and we arent free anymore.

It is a decision that will have to be made soon it seems.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Tommunist

Originally posted by: Genx87
It is a slippery slope and not a very easy decision to make for me.

The very freedoms we enjoy in the west may be the reason for our downfall.
The question is how much freedom do we want to give up to ensure survival?

if we give up our freedoms haven't the "terrorists won" ?

In a way yes and that is the crux of the matter. We can continue to allow freedom to call people to incite terrorist acts and eventually our countries rot from the inside out.

Or we can start taking away such freedoms and we arent free anymore.

It is a decision that will have to be made soon it seems.

changes don't have to be mandated from the gov't to happen. things can happen socially but it takes great leaders to bring this sort of thing about.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Tommunist

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Tommunist

Originally posted by: Genx87
It is a slippery slope and not a very easy decision to make for me.

The very freedoms we enjoy in the west may be the reason for our downfall.
The question is how much freedom do we want to give up to ensure survival?

if we give up our freedoms haven't the "terrorists won" ?

In a way yes and that is the crux of the matter. We can continue to allow freedom to call people to incite terrorist acts and eventually our countries rot from the inside out.

Or we can start taking away such freedoms and we arent free anymore.

It is a decision that will have to be made soon it seems.

changes don't have to be mandated from the gov't to happen. things can happen socially but it takes great leaders to bring this sort of thing about.

Sure but where are these leaders and how long are people willing to wait?

Like I said on this issue I havent made a decision yet. It is a slippery slope for which I dont have an answer yet.

It certainly disturbs me to hear clerics in Florida chanting death to America and knowing some ignorant is going to be influenced by that and possibly decide to detonate himself in a market killing innocent people.

But I am not sure if outlawing it is the way we want to go. Because once we do that anything anti-govt can land people in jail.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: Genx87

But I am not sure if outlawing it is the way we want to go. Because once we do that anything anti-govt can land people in jail.

that's the real kicker and what pretty much solidifies my stance on this.

 

[Moonbeam]

The terrorists have won.

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: zendari
If we are dead the terrorists have certainly won.

Btw, are you saying the dead soldiers/victims from 9/11 are indications that the terrorists have won?

I'm actually quite certain that you don't mean that, but how about putting something into a discussion next time. You're an adult, try to act like one .

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: NJDevil

Originally posted by: zendari
If we are dead the terrorists have certainly won.

Btw, are you saying the dead soldiers/victims from 9/11 are indications that the terrorists have won?

I'm actually quite certain that you don't mean that, but how about putting something into a discussion next time. You're an adult, try to act like one .

You don't think 911 was a victory for the terrorists?

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: NJDevil

Originally posted by: zendari
If we are dead the terrorists have certainly won.

Btw, are you saying the dead soldiers/victims from 9/11 are indications that the terrorists have won?

I'm actually quite certain that you don't mean that, but how about putting something into a discussion next time. You're an adult, try to act like one .

You don't think 911 was a victory for the terrorists?

It's impossible to judge at this point. Here's why:

Was Pearl Harbor a victory for Japan? Was the Blitzkrieg a victory for Germany? Was Kuwait a victory for Iraq?

I say it's impossible to answer this question because for the terrorists to "win," they would have to accomplish their goals. What exactly are their goals? That answer changes depending on the person you ask. If you look at studies done by analysts at the CIA and other organization, you will notice that they pretty much refute the, "they hate our freedom and want to convert us to a Muslim nation" goal.

I honestly believe that the main motivation for the attacks on the US is the desire of the organization to remove Western influence from their region. If we didn't have thousands of troops in Saudi, and didn't give Israel (which i support) billions of dollars each year, I believe that there would be a lot less incentive for the terrorists to pick the US as their main target.

We make 9/11 a bigger victory for the terrorists by changing our way of life to cope with the threat. You never addressed my previous comment.

What do you think of people who say, "I regret that I only have but one life to give for my country?" If you measure success by survival, say goodbye to being known as a "patriot." I find it kind of ironic that you have accused liberals of hating our troops, but you measure our success/failure by whether or not people die. What does that say about the troops who have died in Iraq? Have the insurgents won?

Was 9/11 a victory for the terrorists? My answer ... wait and see

 

[piasabird]

Inciting violence with your speech is illegal. This is not protected free speech.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Inciting violence with your speech is illegal. This is not protected free speech.

yeup. and....

 

[Todd33]

If you can prove support or involvment, ship them back to the middle east. We are fighting them "there" so we don't have to fight them "here".