UHC Public Option is Dead

[Fern]

Link

Everybody's been waiting to see which way Obama will stand on the public option. Many (his supporters in the MSM) have been saying this is a leadership issue for Obama and predicting tonight's speech will be a kind of litmus test.

Now Max Baucus pre-empts Obama's speech with news that the Senate will NOT be passing a bill with a public option.

Is this a matter of who's in really in charge? Or is Baucus giving Obama some cover for his speech tonight?

Ha, wonder what Pelosi will say?

Fern

 

[miketheidiot]

baucus is a wise and beautiful woman, revoke this asshole's chairmanship

 

[Patranus]

The Democrats will just re-rand the government options as "co-ops" and they and sell those. Funny thing is that we have health care co-ops right now so I am not sure why the federal government has to get involved in the co-op business.

 

[blackangst1]

This is the BIGGEST problem the Dems have right now. At the end of the day, with current thinking collectively between the house and the senate, we will not see a healthcare bill reach Obama's desk any time soon.

 

[MovingTarget]

The public option may not be dead just yet. The House wants to pass one desparately. Without a government option, we will be back in the same position we are in now in a decade, with the same naysayers spouting the same crap just as they did in 93 and today.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
This is the BIGGEST problem the Dems have right now. At the end of the day, with current thinking collectively between the house and the senate, we will not see a healthcare bill reach Obama's desk any time soon.

I really don't think that's accurate. I think most people know that in the end the House progressives will give in if that's what's necessary. I personally am still very hopeful for a public option (and I think 'ol Max thinks he is far more important than he really is), but if push comes to shove and a bill comes before the house without a 'robust public option' as the progressives demand, I'm taking bets that they sign on to it anyway.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
The public option may not be dead just yet. The House wants to pass one desparately. Without a government option, we will be back in the same position we are in now in a decade, with the same naysayers spouting the same crap just as they did in 93 and today.

Very well may be, but yes, right now, a public option is DEAD. Maybe not in the house, but it is in the senate, therefore, as of now, a bill with a public option will not be reachiong Obama's desk. It's dead.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1
This is the BIGGEST problem the Dems have right now. At the end of the day, with current thinking collectively between the house and the senate, we will not see a healthcare bill reach Obama's desk any time soon.

I really don't think that's accurate. I think most people know that in the end the House progressives will give in if that's what's necessary. I personally am still very hopeful for a public option (and I think 'ol Max thinks he is far more important than he really is), but if push comes to shove and a bill comes before the house without a 'robust public option' as the progressives demand, I'm taking bets that they sign on to it anyway.

Youre taking bets on what? The senate signing off on a public option? Really? Or on the house passing something without a public option? Thats what Im betting on. I think something will get passed, but it will resemble a large welfare bill, not a public option the house Dems have in mind. It wont get through the senate.

 

[OCGuy]

UHC != Public Option



UHC= Every man, woman, child is covered by government run healthcare

Public Option = A government backed insurance option as a low-cost alternative to traditional insurance

 

[imported_inspire]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
The public option may not be dead just yet. The House wants to pass one desparately. Without a government option, we will be back in the same position we are in now in a decade, with the same naysayers spouting the same crap just as they did in 93 and today.

I don't buy it. If the legislature can institute relevant reform, we shouldn't have to come back to this position.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: OCguy
UHC != Public Option



UHC= Every man, woman, child is covered by government run healthcare

Public Option = A government backed insurance option as a low-cost alternative to traditional insurance

How does one make a "government backed insurance option as a low-cost alternative to traditional insurance"?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1
This is the BIGGEST problem the Dems have right now. At the end of the day, with current thinking collectively between the house and the senate, we will not see a healthcare bill reach Obama's desk any time soon.

I really don't think that's accurate. I think most people know that in the end the House progressives will give in if that's what's necessary. I personally am still very hopeful for a public option (and I think 'ol Max thinks he is far more important than he really is), but if push comes to shove and a bill comes before the house without a 'robust public option' as the progressives demand, I'm taking bets that they sign on to it anyway.

Youre taking bets on what? The senate signing off on a public option? Really? Or on the house passing something without a public option? Thats what Im betting on. I think something will get passed, but it will resemble a large welfare bill, not a public option the house Dems have in mind. It wont get through the senate.

Depends on how they want to do it and how intransigent certain senators are I imagine. If the Democrats want to push a public option through the Senate they can most certainly do it with reconciliation. It's all a question of desire.

I agree that of the two parties to cave, the house is significantly more likely... but in the end that was sort of my point. This whole 'the house won't pass a bill without a public option' thing is incorrect.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: OCguy
UHC != Public Option



UHC= Every man, woman, child is covered by government run healthcare

Public Option = A government backed insurance option as a low-cost alternative to traditional insurance

How to reach UHC:

1) Install public option. A black hole competitor to private industry with unlimited source of funds.
2) Sit and wait, eventually enough people will be on public option, with many switching from private.
3) Private insurers go bankrupt as it is impossible to compete with an entity with an unlimited balance sheet.
4) Public option becomes UHC.

 

[brandonbull]

What I don't get is that the governmant is admitting that they know health insurance companies are cheating everyone but yet they would rather try and invent a new system instead of applying a fix to the established one.

 

[ScottyB]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OCguy
UHC != Public Option



UHC= Every man, woman, child is covered by government run healthcare

Public Option = A government backed insurance option as a low-cost alternative to traditional insurance

How to reach UHC:

1) Install public option. A black hole competitor to private industry with unlimited source of funds.
2) Sit and wait, eventually enough people will be on public option, with many switching from private.
3) Private insurers go bankrupt as it is impossible to compete with an entity with an unlimited balance sheet.
4) Public option becomes UHC.

Hopefully they use the tears of the super rich in a responsible way.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1
This is the BIGGEST problem the Dems have right now. At the end of the day, with current thinking collectively between the house and the senate, we will not see a healthcare bill reach Obama's desk any time soon.

I really don't think that's accurate. I think most people know that in the end the House progressives will give in if that's what's necessary. I personally am still very hopeful for a public option (and I think 'ol Max thinks he is far more important than he really is), but if push comes to shove and a bill comes before the house without a 'robust public option' as the progressives demand, I'm taking bets that they sign on to it anyway.

Youre taking bets on what? The senate signing off on a public option? Really? Or on the house passing something without a public option? Thats what Im betting on. I think something will get passed, but it will resemble a large welfare bill, not a public option the house Dems have in mind. It wont get through the senate.

Depends on how they want to do it and how intransigent certain senators are I imagine. If the Democrats want to push a public option through the Senate they can most certainly do it with reconciliation. It's all a question of desire.

I agree that of the two parties to cave, the house is significantly more likely... but in the end that was sort of my point. This whole 'the house won't pass a bill without a public option' thing is incorrect.

Fine. Misworded. How about this: The house doesnt want to pass a bill without a public option. You certainly cant deny Pelosi's adamant stand on the issue.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OCguy
UHC != Public Option



UHC= Every man, woman, child is covered by government run healthcare

Public Option = A government backed insurance option as a low-cost alternative to traditional insurance

How to reach UHC:

1) Install public option. A black hole competitor to private industry with unlimited source of funds.
2) Sit and wait, eventually enough people will be on public option, with many switching from private.
3) Private insurers go bankrupt as it is impossible to compete with an entity with an unlimited balance sheet.
4) Public option becomes UHC.

Or this:

1. Install public option. A black hole competitor to private industry with unlimited source of funds. In that legislation dont infringe on the private sector. i.e. ditch the 5 year grace period, and dont allow the government to determine what minimum requirements are.
2. Sit and wait. Allow the private market to adjust to coverage and pricing, thus being a competitor to the government program.
3. Private insurers allow the market to determine it's needs, and deliver a product accordingly.
4. Offer a tax credit to those who choose a private plan as opposed to those who choose a public plan (dont tax me for services I dont use).
5. We have a competitve market with an optional public option.


Thats (in general) what I would like to see.

 

[Lemon law]

Obama is going to be a much much stronger voice than Baucus. And in fact it may end up being a public relation coup to end up seeing Baucus change his public stance when faced by the greater weight of the democratic party demanding better.

And I agree with an earlier poster, a defective version of health care reform could end up worse than doing nothing at all. And I somewhat trust that Obama will make sure that such a poor version does not get his signature.

The ball is now in the Obama court, and I will wait to see what he says. But I expect he is going to put a lot more pressure on the nay sayers and obstructions who have had a far too easy road this far. When they have to defend the existing failed system, their position will erode faster than snow on a hot tin roof.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OCguy
UHC != Public Option



UHC= Every man, woman, child is covered by government run healthcare

Public Option = A government backed insurance option as a low-cost alternative to traditional insurance

How to reach UHC:

1) Install public option. A black hole competitor to private industry with unlimited source of funds.
2) Sit and wait, eventually enough people will be on public option, with many switching from private.
3) Private insurers go bankrupt as it is impossible to compete with an entity with an unlimited balance sheet.
4) Public option becomes UHC.

Or this:

1. Install public option. A black hole competitor to private industry with unlimited source of funds. In that legislation dont infringe on the private sector. i.e. ditch the 5 year grace period, and dont allow the government to determine what minimum requirements are.
2. Sit and wait. Allow the private market to adjust to coverage and pricing, thus being a competitor to the government program.
3. Private insurers allow the market to determine it's needs, and deliver a product accordingly.
4. Offer a tax credit to those who choose a private plan as opposed to those who choose a public plan (dont tax me for services I dont use).
5. We have a competitve market with an optional public option.


Thats (in general) what I would like to see.

What is your prediction on pricing for #2? Pricing will inevitably go UP. Medicine is not an economics of scale problem, it's a shortage of supply problem.

What is to prevent the masses to shift from private to public? What will prevent corporate health benefits to drop private and opt for public?

How will private compete with public which will no doubt have superior pricing power and has no profit margin to achieve?

#4 They are already talking about taxing medical benefits now (which are pre-tax deductions), what makes you think a tax credit will be offered?

#5 We will not have a competitive market, the only way for private to survive is to lower its standards to the public level. More likely that 99% insurers go bankrupt, and the only insurance that remains will be gold plated platinum plus insurance for the ultra rich.

How will they fund the public option?

 

[GoPackGo]

No government plan so far will cover everyone...

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OCguy
UHC != Public Option



UHC= Every man, woman, child is covered by government run healthcare

Public Option = A government backed insurance option as a low-cost alternative to traditional insurance

How to reach UHC:

1) Install public option. A black hole competitor to private industry with unlimited source of funds.
2) Sit and wait, eventually enough people will be on public option, with many switching from private.
3) Private insurers go bankrupt as it is impossible to compete with an entity with an unlimited balance sheet.
4) Public option becomes UHC.

Or this:

1. Install public option. A black hole competitor to private industry with unlimited source of funds. In that legislation dont infringe on the private sector. i.e. ditch the 5 year grace period, and dont allow the government to determine what minimum requirements are.
2. Sit and wait. Allow the private market to adjust to coverage and pricing, thus being a competitor to the government program.
3. Private insurers allow the market to determine it's needs, and deliver a product accordingly.
4. Offer a tax credit to those who choose a private plan as opposed to those who choose a public plan (dont tax me for services I dont use).
5. We have a competitve market with an optional public option.


Thats (in general) what I would like to see.

I know people who are absolutely convinced that any government option will eventually lead to single payer for all. They just don't want to let it in the door. I think the risk is there, but I don't see it as inevitable. I think insurance companies can and will adapt, and that there's room for them in terms of providing better service than the gov't can. I still ship FedEx over the postal service when I absolutely need it to get there. Insurance companies rake in billions now, while they decline 30% of first claims. If they have to trim those margins to be competetive, and to provide a "don't fuck your clients" service, so be it.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: OCguy
UHC != Public Option



UHC= Every man, woman, child is covered by government run healthcare

Public Option = A government backed insurance option as a low-cost alternative to traditional insurance

Wrong. UHC only means that every man, woman, and child has affordable health insurance coverage that can't be taken away. It doesn't specify how that is to be accomplished. Switzerland and Germany achieve UHC with an entirely private insurance industry.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Patranus
The Democrats will just re-rand the government options as "co-ops" and they and sell those. Funny thing is that we have health care co-ops right now so I am not sure why the federal government has to get involved in the co-op business.

So they can campaign that they solved the healthcare "crisis".

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OCguy
UHC != Public Option



UHC= Every man, woman, child is covered by government run healthcare

Public Option = A government backed insurance option as a low-cost alternative to traditional insurance

How to reach UHC:

1) Install public option. A black hole competitor to private industry with unlimited source of funds.
2) Sit and wait, eventually enough people will be on public option, with many switching from private.
3) Private insurers go bankrupt as it is impossible to compete with an entity with an unlimited balance sheet.
4) Public option becomes UHC.

Hopefully they use the tears of the super rich in a responsible way.

because the super rich are eeeeeevvvvvviiiiiilll :roll:

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OCguy
UHC != Public Option



UHC= Every man, woman, child is covered by government run healthcare

Public Option = A government backed insurance option as a low-cost alternative to traditional insurance

How to reach UHC:

1) Install public option. A black hole competitor to private industry with unlimited source of funds.
2) Sit and wait, eventually enough people will be on public option, with many switching from private.
3) Private insurers go bankrupt as it is impossible to compete with an entity with an unlimited balance sheet.
4) Public option becomes UHC.

Or this:

1. Install public option. A black hole competitor to private industry with unlimited source of funds. In that legislation dont infringe on the private sector. i.e. ditch the 5 year grace period, and dont allow the government to determine what minimum requirements are.
2. Sit and wait. Allow the private market to adjust to coverage and pricing, thus being a competitor to the government program.
3. Private insurers allow the market to determine it's needs, and deliver a product accordingly.
4. Offer a tax credit to those who choose a private plan as opposed to those who choose a public plan (dont tax me for services I dont use).
5. We have a competitve market with an optional public option.


Thats (in general) what I would like to see.

I know people who are absolutely convinced that any government option will eventually lead to single payer for all. They just don't want to let it in the door. I think the risk is there, but I don't see it as inevitable. I think insurance companies can and will adapt, and that there's room for them in terms of providing better service than the gov't can. I still ship FedEx over the postal service when I absolutely need it to get there. Insurance companies rake in billions now, while they decline 30% of first claims. If they have to trim those margins to be competetive, and to provide a "don't fuck your clients" service, so be it.

I don't believe that single payer is a major threat to the long term health of insurance companies. Someone still has to administer claims, detect fraud, and do the other insurance type things. In single payer, these types of things will be contracted out the private insurance companies, much like it is in Medicare and Tricare. Plus, there will always be a market for private supplemental insurance.

Interesting you mention the Post Office and FedEx. The Post Office contracts a lot of overnight delivery to FedEx, at least behind the scenes.