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Uh oh - F18 may have been downed by Patriot SAM

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
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In the CENTCOM briefing today, one of the reporters asked Gen. Brooks about it, mentioning that he'd been hearing speculation on this. Brooks didn't comment specifically, stating that they were looking into it. If true, it's almost seeming like the current generation Patriot missiles are perhaps a bit too effective, or more likely that IFF needs to be worked on somewhat.
 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: Astaroth33
If true, it's almost seeming like the current generation Patriot missiles are perhaps a bit too effective, or more likely that IFF needs to be worked on somewhat.

This brings up an interesting question... we already know that Iraq has GPS jammers sold to them by the Russians, what if there's also equipment that jams IFF signals? Maybe Iraq is using an "IFF jammer" to increase the mayhem on the battlefield?
 

nardvark

Member
Jul 3, 2002
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I honestly doubt it was caused by iraqi jamming. considering how many planes and helicopters we're cramming into confined airspace, the amount of friendly fire mistakes so far hasn't really been too bad.
also, no matter how good the equipment is, we're ultimately limited by the fact that we've got people deciding when to push the buttons and where to send things...and people make mistakes. friendly fire/battlefield confusion is one constant that I doubt will disappear no matter how good the equipment gets.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,607
3
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More likely that the "automatic" mode of the Patriot batteries is compromised. The IFF may be working correctly on the plane but the IFF translator maybe defective on the missile battery. It might even be something simple, like the secure transport protocol used in the network transmissions may have deformed header information and the fire control computer is ignoring the IFF returns. Alot can go wrong in that system.
 

Kenazo

Lifer
Sep 15, 2000
10,429
1
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why aren't these pilots bailing when they realise a patriot has been shot at them? Since the patriot is designed to down a missile, I highly doubt a pilot could evade one.
 

Grey

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 1999
2,737
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The Patriots are kinetic killers, essentially targeting the front of the "missile". Guess where the pilots sit.

But this does beg the question, the patriot computers should be smart enough to realize a missle from a plane though. Iraq isn't flying any jets so there is no point to have that ability right now.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,607
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PAC-3 are use kinetic energy to kill targets, true, but not previous versions. They never did say which type was fired.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
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Who in the hell presses the fire button on these missiles???

I heard this last night but was too disgusted to even mention it
Here is a link from sky news
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1086098,00.html
HORNET HIT BY US PATRIOT

A US fighter bomber may have been shot down in a friendly fire incident.


Reports from Washington claim the F/A-18 Hornet was shot down by a Patriot missile.

Earlier it was thought the plane was downed by an Iraqi surface-to-air missile.

A Black Hawk helicopter was also hit by small arms fire - but new US reports claim mechanical failure may have caused the crash.

An intense search and rescue operation has been launched to find the missing jet pilot.

However, there are still conflicting reports about the number of personnel on board the helicopter when it crashed.

CentCom said there were at least six people on board and gave no confirmation of casualties.

The Pentagon said seven were killed and four rescued with injuries.



Iraqis celebrating on remains of US plane



Both aircraft came down over Karbala, where there has been fierce fighting between the Army's 3rd Infantry Division and Iraqi troops, including Saddam Hussein's elite Republican Guard forces.

The Hornet is designed for carrying out both bombing raids and fighting other aircraft.

The Black Hawk was the second US helicopter to go down in combat.

An Army Apache assault helicopter crashed on March 24 during an assault on Republican Guards.

Its two pilots were captured by Iraqis.

The UH-60 Black Hawk is one of the Army's main utility and troop transport helicopters.

Each one is flown by a crew of four and can carry up to 11 soldiers.

Meanhwhile, a US Marine was killed when he was struck by low-hanging power cable as he travelled in a truck outside Nassiriya.

 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,326
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Originally posted by: MadRat
PAC-3 are use kinetic energy to kill targets, true, but not previous versions. They never did say which type was fired.
Even the PAC-3's have warheads. It's mostly a marketing term. If you think the missile gets close enough to hit the target, you call it a "kinetic" hit-to-kill missile. I don't know if you guys remember the original Gulf War, but they used to say that those Patriots hit the incoming missile directly also. They used to say "like hitting a bullet with a bullet".

But the PAC-3 does in fact contain a warhead just like all previous Patriots did, only it's much more accurate and does have a higher chance of hitting the target directly.


On the PAC-3 patriot, the missile itself is completely different. It's much smaller missile than the previous patriots, and only weighs about a third as much. It's also much shorter ranged. It looks more like a dart. The older Patriots had 90 and 91 Kg warheads and the Pac-3 has a 73 Kg warhead.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,607
3
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I would not doubt the BlackHawk went in on a SAR mission to recover the F-18 pilot. There was considerable lag between the first report of the F-18 downing and its actual reporting. The BlackHawk story seemed to break about the same time.

Yes, Marshallj, the PAC-3 is a smaller missile. Sixteen PAC-3 missiles per launcher can be carried in the space of four previous versions. But it is a kinetic kill weapon, just as advertised. Watch the test photos and notice no explosive warhead each time: Missile Defense Agency
 

A2KLAU

Golden Member
Nov 11, 2000
1,406
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My first post back on the forums since erm.. over 12 months ago :p ahh well.. at least I'm back..

Anyway back to what I was about to say:

Lately it seems to be that the Patriots have gone a little haywire.. failing that maybe there are random radiowaves or things interfering the normal opperation of these SAMs.. they downed one of our Tornado fighters.. can't see how that could really have happened..

Ah well the bottom line really is that war is bloody and costs lives I guess :(

We should have sat down and not have gone into war.. general opinion here in the U.K, but on the contrary we will support the troops all the way because they are now there.

Albert.
 

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