Uh Oh. Asian markets falling.

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
4
0
http://finance.yahoo.com/intlindices?e=asia

We could be in for another drop in the Dow tomorrow.

My question is what would the Dow be at if the US and other governments hadn't made their huge bailouts?

I'm guessing we might have seen close to 4000. Which would have equalled the two thirds the market dropped during the Great Depression
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Oh sh*t. Thursday may be a sub 8k day if these asian numbers hold. They are quite severe.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,810
45
91
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I told you all wait until Friday and watch the market die. *witch laugh*
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
1
0
well... this is in response to the us market and will also be a precursor....

taiwan stock is dropping like japan's nikki... the bastards at ETTV turned my beloved JET TV into a finance network after 7pm... sigh...
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Impossible. Everything is perfectly safe now, Evan Lieb told us so. And he's in college, so you know he's a financial wizard.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
Originally posted by: techs
http://finance.yahoo.com/intlindices?e=asia

We could be in for another drop in the Dow tomorrow.

My question is what would the Dow be at if the US and other governments hadn't made their huge bailouts?

I'm guessing we might have seen close to 4000. Which would have equalled the two thirds the market dropped during the Great Depression

What makes you think the bailout isn't just delaying the inevitable at best?
 

nullzero

Senior member
Jan 15, 2005
670
0
0
DOW futures show -94pts atm. Asian markets all in deep red -6% to -11%. Its going to be a bloodbath tomorrow. As for the bailout... its a bunch of BS it just gave us a few weeks at best to prop up the market.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: nullzero
DOW futures show -94pts atm. Asian markets all in deep red -6% to -11%. Its going to be a bloodbath tomorrow. As for the bailout... its a bunch of BS it just gave us a few weeks at best to prop up the market.

Both Libor and CP is coming down ... the bailout wasn't meant to save equity, it was for the credit markets.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Here's the thing:

The great depression was caused by too much credit spending.

The free market more than likely looks at what the governments of the world are doing as reactionary and unfair. Who wants to invest in a market where there is interference to this extent?

There are two phenomena affecting the US economy right now: the boom in China/India, and the retiring baby boomers.

We can survive without banks and without government. What's going on is not the end of the world. It does, however, affect our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren.

To directly answer the question, IMO the markets would be higher right now without the intervention. Regardless, they are not the true indicator of our wealth as a populace. Look at how much money the government prints, inflation, and the national debt per capita.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Here's the thing:

The great depression was caused by too much credit spending.

The free market more than likely looks at what the governments of the world are doing as reactionary and unfair. Who wants to invest in a market where there is interference to this extent?

There are two phenomena affecting the US economy right now: the boom in China/India, and the retiring baby boomers.

We can survive without banks and without government. What's going on is not the end of the world. It does, however, affect our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren.

To directly answer the question, IMO the markets would be higher right now without the intervention. Regardless, they are not the true indicator of our wealth as a populace. Look at how much money the government prints, inflation, and the national debt per capita.

No, the depression was caused by Fed tightening in 29-32, which brought on liquidity crisis and the collapse of banks. This was pre-FDIC, so people lost money, which in turn reduced discretionary spending and so and and so on.

Our debt to GDP is dead slap in the middle of G8 nations and it's in no way the cause of this problem. Nor is government intervention, as a matter of fact the credit markets are thawing finally after all the liquidity injections (overnight libor down to 2.xx%, 3mo libor dropped slightly also)

Please do yourself a favor and get some real education instead of reading long-debunked bullshit from libertopian blogs. I'm gonna venture a guess and say you do some sort of IT job and never taken a single economics course in your life or had anything to do with running a business (judging by your remark about surviving w/o banks)
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: techs
http://finance.yahoo.com/intlindices?e=asia

We could be in for another drop in the Dow tomorrow.

My question is what would the Dow be at if the US and other governments hadn't made their huge bailouts?

I'm guessing we might have seen close to 4000. Which would have equalled the two thirds the market dropped during the Great Depression

What makes you think the bailout isn't just delaying the inevitable at best?

History, reality, statistics, etc. You know, facts.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Here's the thing:

The great depression was caused by too much credit spending.

The free market more than likely looks at what the governments of the world are doing as reactionary and unfair. Who wants to invest in a market where there is interference to this extent?

There are two phenomena affecting the US economy right now: the boom in China/India, and the retiring baby boomers.

We can survive without banks and without government. What's going on is not the end of the world. It does, however, affect our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren.

To directly answer the question, IMO the markets would be higher right now without the intervention. Regardless, they are not the true indicator of our wealth as a populace. Look at how much money the government prints, inflation, and the national debt per capita.

No, the depression was caused by Fed tightening in 29-32, which brought on liquidity crisis and the collapse of banks. This was pre-FDIC, so people lost money, which in turn reduced discretionary spending and so and and so on.

Our debt to GDP is dead slap in the middle of G8 nations and it's in no way the cause of this problem. Nor is government intervention, as a matter of fact the credit markets are thawing finally after all the liquidity injections (overnight libor down to 2.xx%, 3mo libor dropped slightly also)

Please do yourself a favor and get some real education instead of reading long-debunked bullshit from libertopian blogs. I'm gonna venture a guess and say you do some sort of IT job and never taken a single economics course in your life or had anything to do with running a business (judging by your remark about surviving w/o banks)
Businesspeople survived w/o banks for several millennia.

A small business can be created without a loan if you save up.

I suppose banks are necessary to keep money safe and to provide a service. The misconception is that we somehow need credit (and debt).

The US government owes a ton of money to China right now. Are you comfortable with that?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Sickbeast, before banks there were, well, banks. And also credit and lending, loans for things are not a new concept at all and economics is in fact unnatural without loans. It wouldn't work. I'd always borrow money just as I'd always lend it, depending on the situation.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Here's the thing:

The great depression was caused by too much credit spending.

The free market more than likely looks at what the governments of the world are doing as reactionary and unfair. Who wants to invest in a market where there is interference to this extent?

There are two phenomena affecting the US economy right now: the boom in China/India, and the retiring baby boomers.

We can survive without banks and without government. What's going on is not the end of the world. It does, however, affect our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren.

To directly answer the question, IMO the markets would be higher right now without the intervention. Regardless, they are not the true indicator of our wealth as a populace. Look at how much money the government prints, inflation, and the national debt per capita.

No, the depression was caused by Fed tightening in 29-32, which brought on liquidity crisis and the collapse of banks. This was pre-FDIC, so people lost money, which in turn reduced discretionary spending and so and and so on.

Our debt to GDP is dead slap in the middle of G8 nations and it's in no way the cause of this problem. Nor is government intervention, as a matter of fact the credit markets are thawing finally after all the liquidity injections (overnight libor down to 2.xx%, 3mo libor dropped slightly also)

Please do yourself a favor and get some real education instead of reading long-debunked bullshit from libertopian blogs. I'm gonna venture a guess and say you do some sort of IT job and never taken a single economics course in your life or had anything to do with running a business (judging by your remark about surviving w/o banks)
Businesspeople survived w/o banks for several millennia.

A small business can be created without a loan if you save up.

I suppose banks are necessary to keep money safe and to provide a service. The misconception is that we somehow need credit (and debt).

The US government owes a ton of money to China right now. Are you comfortable with that?

Yes, why not?
Here's a fun finance questions - what happens your return on equity without vs. with leverage?
 

Saga

Banned
Feb 18, 2005
2,718
1
0
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Wait, I thought the bailout was supposed to save the world?

Pretty sure you need to save the cheerleader to do that.
 

redgtxdi

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2004
5,463
8
81
Hmmm.......weird.

We're off a record low......Asian markets *follow* (mostly) but don't we usually follow them??

And after their bad Wednesday, we finish up 400pts!!


:confused:

Certainly Yahoo didn't influence all this? :p
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,402
8,038
136
Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Hmmm.......weird.

We're off a record low......Asian markets *follow* (mostly) but don't we usually follow them??

And after their bad Wednesday, we finish up 400pts!!


:confused:

Certainly Yahoo didn't influence all this? :p

It's not unusual for world markets to react to the US markets and for US markets to buck world markets. Been that way a long time.