Uh, if they pass illegal alien amnesty before they secure the borders....

[techs]

All the proposals I see say you can apply for citizenship if you can 'show' you have been in the US for 2 years.
What do they expect these people to show? Pay stubs? If they got a job on the books they had to illegally use someone elses SS number. And if they did that they would be ineligible.
Since the only way to actually grant illegals citizenship you would need to let them provide 'proof' like having a US citizen say they were here for 2 years, or some other easily obtained and faked proof.
And if it is that easy wouldn't something like 10 million more cross the border almost immediately to take advantage of this?
So before you even talk about 'amnesty' you would have to seal the borders.
Is my thinking logical?

 

[EatSpam]

Yes, but that's exactly what the Cheap Labor and Bleeding Heart types want.

 

[OrByte]

I would imagine that amnesty would be granted to those that can prove they have been living and working in the US for a specific amount of time.

but I am only guessing.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: OrByte
I would imagine that amnesty would be granted to those that can prove they have been living and working in the US for a specific amount of time.

but I am only guessing.

Yeah, I agree. But what 'proof' would people have? No employer will come forward and say they employed an illegal.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Generate an amnesty period for employer w/ respect to providing documentation of one -two weeks.

Every employment document must be notorized/whitnessed by a Federal employee.

Document must be from an employer (equivalent to a H1-B).
Another document must be related to a physical residence.

Now, this provides a tracking mechanism for the Feds for the illegals and also for employers that willingly circumvented the law.


Now require the illegals to file paperwok from the home countries to get fast tracked.

Employers are on the hook now to ensure that if one illegal was employed, now all had better become illegal; they have alerted the Feds to their track record.

The Feds will have to boost up the enforcement and remove politics from the equations.
Employers will have been provided the opportunity to clear the books; therefore there is no excuse for having an illegal.

Boost up the penalties and enforcement on employers. Agents can go to an employer and check all SSNss against tax filings/addresses. Employers will be required to run a check with the SS office on the validity of an SSN. Bogus use will cause penalties on the employer.

That will be the key - reduced the demand for illegal labor by stiffly enforcing the laws that exist

Mulitple/illegal SSNs will show up.

 

[palehorse]

they already are streaming in, in record numbers, just for the meer possibility of amnesty!

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
they already are streaming in, in record numbers, just for the meer possibility of amnesty!

Juan and Pedro sez, "in before the lock!"

 

[Jaskalas]

They will use whatever proof their new employer writes up.

Techs, I totally agree with your line of thought on this topic. However, tens of millions is a very short term number. Hundreds of millions is our future problem, and people working outside the law need not obey any new law.

 

[imported_sling]

Yeah, didn't W mention the issue with forged documentation monday night? So passing that law before we put implements in place to secure the border will, of course, cause a flood of river jumpers to flood into the US. Why wouldn't it? We need a big wall or something....and a DMZ so shooters have a buffer to get hairs on a target before they get to our side and we're burdened with disposal.

 

[johnnobts]

they aren't undocumented workers, many are forged document workers.

 

[Legend]

Yes.

 

[trenchfoot]

the amnesty program (or whatever bush wants to disguise it as) has as it's highest priority the continued availability of cheap docile labor to US business interests.
it's US businesses that have the most need for this type of laborer, and it's US business interests that have the most riding at stake on this program. their voices via deep pockets have the most influence on bush, and the only reason bush and other politicians are trying to pass themselves off as the "benevolent host" is for banking latino votes. as these illegals gain legitimacy, they also lose their value as cheap, easily controlled "slaves". ergo, the borders must remain open for the most "desireable" (read illegal) of these laborers to avail of themselves. or, another way must be found to keep them coming whether illegally or legally through the use of porous, meaningless unenforceable legislation.

the only way this condition can continue to exist is if the supply of this type of labor continually overcomes the need to hire labor that have the rights of citizenship. it is absolutely essential to US business interests that there be millions upon millions of destitute laborers available at all times so as to keep their wages as low as the most desperate among them is willing to accept.

the only snag that kept this current cycle from running under the radar is the illegal immigrants themselves getting used to the idea that the longer they stayed here, the less and less they viewed themselves as criminals in hiding and the more and more they viewed themselves as being permanent residents that proved they have the "right" to demand legitimacy.


those businesses that have become addicted to the type of worker that they favor, which is for all practical intent and purpose slave labor, do not want labor that cannot be easily threatened into submission and obedience. they know bush supports them without question. the only problem bush and his business buddies are wrestling with at the moment is how to keep things as they were while trying to silence the reactionary alarm bells that went off when the illegal aliens and their supporters got tired of being suppressed into second class "citizenship" for so long.

the amnesty program is only meant to quell the immigrant uprising, to quell the "alarmist" uprising against the immigrant revolt and to insure that these new citizens-to-be vote for the politicians that deliver the most appealing empty promises.

in reality it's mainly about keeping US slave labor addicts supplied with their daily fixes.
the easiest most cost-effective way to do that is to somehow keep the borders wide open.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Generate an amnesty period for employer w/ respect to providing documentation of one -two weeks.

Every employment document must be notorized/whitnessed by a Federal employee.

Document must be from an employer (equivalent to a H1-B).
Another document must be related to a physical residence.

Now, this provides a tracking mechanism for the Feds for the illegals and also for employers that willingly circumvented the law.


Now require the illegals to file paperwok from the home countries to get fast tracked.

Employers are on the hook now to ensure that if one illegal was employed, now all had better become illegal; they have alerted the Feds to their track record.

The Feds will have to boost up the enforcement and remove politics from the equations.
Employers will have been provided the opportunity to clear the books; therefore there is no excuse for having an illegal.

Boost up the penalties and enforcement on employers. Agents can go to an employer and check all SSNss against tax filings/addresses. Employers will be required to run a check with the SS office on the validity of an SSN. Bogus use will cause penalties on the employer.

That will be the key - reduced the demand for illegal labor by stiffly enforcing the laws that exist

Mulitple/illegal SSNs will show up.

But, as I stated in other threads, in the year 2000 under Clinton 1900 businesses were prosecuted. That didn't even remotely stem the flow. Clearly we need new legislation and a new system that checks SS numbers for dupes. The current system is broken, even IF we boosted the penalties it would do nothing, because none of the businesses are being prosecuted in the first place (under the current administration).

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Generate an amnesty period for employer w/ respect to providing documentation of one -two weeks.

Every employment document must be notorized/whitnessed by a Federal employee.

Document must be from an employer (equivalent to a H1-B).
Another document must be related to a physical residence.

Now, this provides a tracking mechanism for the Feds for the illegals and also for employers that willingly circumvented the law.


Now require the illegals to file paperwok from the home countries to get fast tracked.

Employers are on the hook now to ensure that if one illegal was employed, now all had better become illegal; they have alerted the Feds to their track record.

The Feds will have to boost up the enforcement and remove politics from the equations.
Employers will have been provided the opportunity to clear the books; therefore there is no excuse for having an illegal.

Boost up the penalties and enforcement on employers. Agents can go to an employer and check all SSNss against tax filings/addresses. Employers will be required to run a check with the SS office on the validity of an SSN. Bogus use will cause penalties on the employer.

That will be the key - reduced the demand for illegal labor by stiffly enforcing the laws that exist

Multiple/illegal SSNs will show up.

But, as I stated in other threads, in the year 2000 under Clinton 1900 businesses were prosecuted. That didn't even remotely stem the flow. Clearly we need new legislation and a new system that checks SS numbers for dupes. The current system is broken, even IF we boosted the penalties it would do nothing, because none of the businesses are being prosecuted in the first place (under the current administration).

The main area that seem to need to be addressed.

1) Increase the manpower available for enforcement/prosecution.
2) Increase the penalties
3) Remove the ability for just wrist slapping.

4) Verification/detection of SS numbers - Bugus can be verifies via a phone call to the SSA.
Detecting mulitple uses of the SS is tougher. The SS would have to track if multiple employers are reporting income on a given SS within the same reporting period.
The onus will be on the government to detect this and verify that the same person exists at both employers.

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: OrByte
I would imagine that amnesty would be granted to those that can prove they have been living and working in the US for a specific amount of time.

but I am only guessing.

So add in the people who forge doccuments will have a bumper crop year

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: OrByte
I would imagine that amnesty would be granted to those that can prove they have been living and working in the US for a specific amount of time.

but I am only guessing.

Yeah, I agree. But what 'proof' would people have? No employer will come forward and say they employed an illegal.

Who cares? Burden of proof is on THEM. They should have thought of that before they snuck in. Not my problem.

You know I think it's a little ironic. . .if we did grant the 12 million or so illegals currently here amnesty and grant them citizenship, I wonder how it would change their views on illegal immigration. My guess is they'd be out there protesting illegals with the rest of us the next day for fear the non stop influx would endanger their very jobs as well. Remember. . .they came here to ESCAPE Mexico. All of Mexico coming here would essentially put them right back where they started. They weren't happy with their government so they'll just hijack ours.

 

[Genx87]

Yes and why lots of people are pushing to close the floodgates. No point in giving amnesty if you dont plan to deal with the source.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: tweaker2
the amnesty program (or whatever bush wants to disguise it as) has as it's highest priority the continued availability of cheap docile labor to US business interests.
it's US businesses that have the most need for this type of laborer, and it's US business interests that have the most riding at stake on this program. their voices via deep pockets have the most influence on bush, and the only reason bush and other politicians are trying to pass themselves off as the "benevolent host" is for banking latino votes. as these illegals gain legitimacy, they also lose their value as cheap, easily controlled "slaves". ergo, the borders must remain open for the most "desireable" (read illegal) of these laborers to avail of themselves. or, another way must be found to keep them coming whether illegally or legally through the use of porous, meaningless unenforceable legislation.

the only way this condition can continue to exist is if the supply of this type of labor continually overcomes the need to hire labor that have the rights of citizenship. it is absolutely essential to US business interests that there be millions upon millions of destitute laborers available at all times so as to keep their wages as low as the most desperate among them is willing to accept.

the only snag that kept this current cycle from running under the radar is the illegal immigrants themselves getting used to the idea that the longer they stayed here, the less and less they viewed themselves as criminals in hiding and the more and more they viewed themselves as being permanent residents that proved they have the "right" to demand legitimacy.


those businesses that have become addicted to the type of worker that they favor, which is for all practical intent and purpose slave labor, do not want labor that cannot be easily threatened into submission and obedience. they know bush supports them without question. the only problem bush and his business buddies are wrestling with at the moment is how to keep things as they were while trying to silence the reactionary alarm bells that went off when the illegal aliens and their supporters got tired of being suppressed into second class "citizenship" for so long.

the amnesty program is only meant to quell the immigrant uprising, to quell the "alarmist" uprising against the immigrant revolt and to insure that these new citizens-to-be vote for the politicians that deliver the most appealing empty promises.

in reality it's mainly about keeping US slave labor addicts supplied with their daily fixes.
the easiest most cost-effective way to do that is to somehow keep the borders wide open.

Interesting analysis

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: OrByte
I would imagine that amnesty would be granted to those that can prove they have been living and working in the US for a specific amount of time.

but I am only guessing.

Yeah, I agree. But what 'proof' would people have? No employer will come forward and say they employed an illegal.

Who cares? Burden of proof is on THEM. They should have thought of that before they snuck in. Not my problem.

You know I think it's a little ironic. . .if we did grant the 12 million or so illegals currently here amnesty and grant them citizenship, I wonder how it would change their views on illegal immigration. My guess is they'd be out there protesting illegals with the rest of us the next day for fear the non stop influx would endanger their very jobs as well. Remember. . .they came here to ESCAPE Mexico. All of Mexico coming here would essentially put them right back where they started. They weren't happy with their government so they'll just hijack ours.

You know what a good amnesty program would be (to make them earn it)? Have them help build the wall to keep others out. After working on the wall for 1 or 2 years, they can be a citizen. I'd be all for this.