Uh, DX10 on XP is not a hoax.

[Arkaign]

As much as I'd like to see workable DX10 for XP, it's probably not going to make much of an impact.

When true DX10 games start hitting en masse (what, 8-16 months?), they'll probably need 4gb+ to run decently, and that leads to a couple of problems immediately :

(1)- XP x86 can't truly run 4gb, because if you game with a decent video card, it sucks away addressable memory.

(2)- XP 64 is crap. I don't like Vista much, but Vista 64 >>>>>>> XP 64

So yeah, by the time the games DX10 games start hitting, you'll want Vista to really take advantage. Still a cool project though.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: apoppin

OpenGL is as irrelevant now as it ever was.

utter nonsense

OGL is getting completely updated and made over for DX10 HW this Summer ... nvidia has opened HW features to Carmack in G80 for OpenGl

And Carmack/iD, possibly Epic, are the only ones who are going to use it for gaming. And I'm sure they'll do amazing things with it.

But the other 10,000 developers have accepted DX, and thats not going to change without a miracle. I'm not saying OGL is any less powerful than DX10, it's just not as relevant to gaming as DX is due to sheer numbers.

 

[tungtung]

Personally I'm not looking to upgrade to Vista at least until they have SP1 out and all the drivers are out.
Reading about the horror stories of people trying to get their nVidia cards working properly is just a bit over the line for me.
Honestly I was thinking of keeping my Win 2k for long long time, until I found out most new games won't run at all in Win 2k. Such a pity.
For me I'd probably go with XP for the time being and just stand on the fence waiting to see if Vista has become reliable enough.

Not to mention I haven't seen to any games with DX10 exclusive out yet anyway (or even in the pipeline). Most of them still have both DX9 and DX10 engines anyway.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: tungtung
Personally I'm not looking to upgrade to Vista at least until they have SP1 out and all the drivers are out.
Reading about the horror stories of people trying to get their nVidia cards working properly is just a bit over the line for me.
Honestly I was thinking of keeping my Win 2k for long long time, until I found out most new games won't run at all in Win 2k. Such a pity.
For me I'd probably go with XP for the time being and just stand on the fence waiting to see if Vista has become reliable enough.

Not to mention I haven't seen to many games with DX10 exclusive out yet anyway.

If you can show proof of *ANY* DX10 exclusive game out in final form that is out right now, I'll eat my hat! And maybe paypal you $1.08!

Agreed mostly on the Vista gaming rant. I'll boot to Vista when the DX10 exclusive games eventually trickle out. But now? No point. My Vista drive lies mostly dormant.

 

[tungtung]

Sorry I mean "any" DX10 games ...

Edit: well actually SupCom supposedly has a DX10 patch coming soon ... dunno how soon is that though and also what difference will it makes.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: DasFox
All I can say IS, WHEN is APPLE going to RULE the gaming WORLD, so we can all dump our crap M$ boxs....

ALOHA

Yeah cause $3000 prebuilt Macs is exactly what we all need.

LOL, /agree...

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: tungtung
Sorry I mean "any" DX10 games ...

Edit: well actually SupCom supposedly has a DX10 patch coming soon ... dunno how soon is that though and also what difference will it makes.

The Dx10 patch for SupCom was cancelled. It didn't really need it anyway. The game is more CPU-bound than GPU-bound if you have a decent card, and you usually are zoomed out too far to see unit details anyway.

 

[AmdInside]

Sad that being so old, Windows XP has only had two Service Packs. NT4 had 6 service packs and Windows 2000 had 4 if I recall correctly. I've tried Vista twice now (retail versions) and both times, I've had a lot of problems.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Mem

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
DX10 on XP is not a hoax... but from the sounds of it, it looks to be emulation. Mapping DX10 calls such that DX9 drivers can 'understand'...

The performance penalty could range from small (10% drop) to huge (80-90% drop). Not to mention, there could be severe artifacting issues and a sundry of other bugs.

But if it pans out, that will be great for a lot PC gamers who are sticking with XP.

Although, seriously, I have found Vista to be pretty damn good.

Emulation/wrapper or whatever you want to call it is going to be terrible,also what's going to happen when you need tech support or have a problem and say I'm using DX10 emulation in XP.


Personally just buy Vista,it'll save you a lot of headaches in the long run,not to mention DX10 performance especially with DX10 games designed for Vista.

Exactly what Microsoft would want you to say. In fact, they are counting on it. I'm all for technology improvements, but please, and this is to all, do not think MS kept their foot down for Vista DX10 only just for the good of advancement of technology. No, they did it to get the remaining dollars out of our wallets. Why else would they even bother to create Vista.
Now I am interested in Vista for one reason only. DX10 games. That's it. Pretty lame huh?
If somebody can get something out there that lets us play DX10 games on XP, I'm all for it.

I have asked various people numerous times, "What can I do in Vista that I can't on XP?" And I can never get a straight answer. Or, "Aero is waaaayyy kewl." or "Too many things to list." Oh really? Anything of importance? Or a new version of mine sweeper?

Sorry guys, just frustrated with the greed of the world. Don't mind me.

 

[n7]

keys, you know very well there are lots of benefits to Vista. LOL, why bother creating Vista?
How 'bout why bother with XP? 98 was fine.
Heck, why not use DOS :laugh:
C'mon, you know better.

If you don't know, spend some time in the OS forum

As much as it may have been a business decision to not create DX10 for XP, can you really blame them?

It'd be a ton of extra work w/ no financial benefit for them.

And all the FUD about Vista is largely that.

It's a good OS that people will be clinging to when MS releases the next one, & so on, just like w/ every other OS release MS has done (okay, save for ME )...

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Mem

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
DX10 on XP is not a hoax... but from the sounds of it, it looks to be emulation. Mapping DX10 calls such that DX9 drivers can 'understand'...

The performance penalty could range from small (10% drop) to huge (80-90% drop). Not to mention, there could be severe artifacting issues and a sundry of other bugs.

But if it pans out, that will be great for a lot PC gamers who are sticking with XP.

Although, seriously, I have found Vista to be pretty damn good.

Emulation/wrapper or whatever you want to call it is going to be terrible,also what's going to happen when you need tech support or have a problem and say I'm using DX10 emulation in XP.


Personally just buy Vista,it'll save you a lot of headaches in the long run,not to mention DX10 performance especially with DX10 games designed for Vista.

Exactly what Microsoft would want you to say. In fact, they are counting on it. I'm all for technology improvements, but please, and this is to all, do not think MS kept their foot down for Vista DX10 only just for the good of advancement of technology. No, they did it to get the remaining dollars out of our wallets. Why else would they even bother to create Vista.
Now I am interested in Vista for one reason only. DX10 games. That's it. Pretty lame huh?
If somebody can get something out there that lets us play DX10 games on XP, I'm all for it.

I have asked various people numerous times, "What can I do in Vista that I can't on XP?" And I can never get a straight answer. Or, "Aero is waaaayyy kewl." or "Too many things to list." Oh really? Anything of importance? Or a new version of mine sweeper?

Sorry guys, just frustrated with the greed of the world. Don't mind me.

Reason why I wanted Vista (x64) was for a few things.

1: 64 Bit OS (Vista x64) for 4GB+ and longer future life span then XP.
2: Better Security and firewall then XP.
3:Superior memory handling then XP.
4:Looks way better(only a cosmetic plus point but a bonus still).
5:Most of the drivers are out of the Kernel now so better stability .
6:XP is getting old, and a new OS upgrade was a welcome, lets be honest how long you want to be on XP for?...1 year,10 years,15 years?
7: DX10 is a plus point so might as well put that in too.

I could probably think of a few more.

keysplayr2003 you might want to read this old Vista review if you have not done so already.
Link.


I did not even mention those out there with pirate copies of XP when they could pick up OEM version of Vista very cheap,yes you could argue they could get a cheap OEM version of XP ,but you know they won't.

 

[geokilla]

This should get moved to Operating Systems.

IMO, I think Vista sucks, period. Way too many bugs and driver conflicts. I wouldn't bother with Vista till Service Pack 1 comes out. My friend has Vista, and half of his games such as GUNZ and Lineage won't work because of Vista.

BTW, since I'm running a X850XT, I can't even use SM 3.0, so there's no point in me switching to Vista. Plus, the upgrade versions and retail versions cost twice as much, yet they do the exact same thing, which is installing Vista after doing a clean install.

 

[bfdd]

I like vista minus it's flaws, I got into it way to early I believe, but then again 64bit XP sucks too =\ Oh well just hoping when it starts to matter it has its crap together.

 

[Shamrock]

As far as I have read, and understand, this isn't an emulator, nor a wrapper. They will be REPLACING the API's upon installation.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Originally posted by: DasFox

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: DasFox
All I can say IS, WHEN is APPLE going to RULE the gaming WORLD, so we can all dump our crap M$ boxs....

ALOHA

Yeah cause $3000 prebuilt Macs is exactly what we all need.

LOL, well I forgot to say that we need the ability to build them ourself too, since they're moving into Intel...

they have that already. except it called linux.

 

[n7]

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/pretty-vista.ars
http://arstechnica.com/reviews...sta-under-the-hood.ars

Those are a great read for some reasons Vista is worth looking at.

Or just a great read period, even if you cannot/won't run Vista soon.

 

[hans007]

vista being well, not an upgrade and possibly a downgrade is the oppurtunity linux / os X have.

too bad apple is too greedy to sell a computer for under $2500 that is worth using for games, or sell OS X standalone and linux is too busy balkanized into 500 different distros.

but if there were ever an oppurtunity for a marketshare grab in the 10-15% range of PCs well this would probably be it. If google or yahoo or something made a supported version of ubuntu or something....


openGL should allow gaming on linux anyway, if it had enough market share it should have just as much game support as mac OS. so basically anything made by blizzard and id. starcraft 2 is going to launch on OSX after all because it uses opengl.

 

[JimiP]

Technology advances, this is a solid example of that. Vista has it's flaws now but in time, it will be the operating system of choice. Also, the fact that Vista is so memory hungry... Sure it is. It actually uses system memory the way it should. Not only that but RAM is getting so cheap now that 2GB's of RAM is pretty standard. It only costs around $85 for DDR2-800 RAM from G.Skill.

So please, if you want to continue using an aging OS go ahead and do it. The rest of us will be enjoying Vista.