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$&#@*!!!! Uefi

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
100,733
4,196
126
This shit isnt worth the fucking hassle


Use to be when you wanted to get a new hard drive you just copied all your shit over, unplugged the old one, and presto fucking chango it worked.

Now we've got this uefi shit because people can't wait 10 goddamn seconds for their fucking computer to boot and the simple task of upgrading to a new drive takes hours because none of the things that should be automated fucking work and none of the troubleshooting steps work and shit like bcdboot doesn't fucking work either so you're left with a system that's stuck in a boot loop and you have to rest the bios over and over again just to get the fucking thing to boot from a cdrom.

Been at this for almost 4 fucking hours now fuck!
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
14,000
3,962
136
This shit isnt worth the fucking hassle


Use to be when you wanted to get a new hard drive you just copied all your shit over, unplugged the old one, and presto fucking chango it worked.

Now we've got this uefi shit because people can't wait 10 goddamn seconds for their fucking computer to boot and the simple task of upgrading to a new drive takes hours because none of the things that should be automated fucking work and none of the troubleshooting steps work and shit like bcdboot doesn't fucking work either so you're left with a system that's stuck in a boot loop and you have to rest the bios over and over again just to get the fucking thing to boot from a cdrom.

Been at this for almost 4 fucking hours now fuck!
I haven't done *tonnes* of system drive clones but I haven't had that kind of catastrophe before. The worst I've had is to repeat the clone operation, job done. Generally speaking it's worked for me (and the vast majority of the systems I work on are OEM so it's always UEFI).
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
5,922
473
126
This shit isnt worth the fucking hassle


Use to be when you wanted to get a new hard drive you just copied all your shit over, unplugged the old one, and presto fucking chango it worked.

Now we've got this uefi shit because people can't wait 10 goddamn seconds for their fucking computer to boot and the simple task of upgrading to a new drive takes hours because none of the things that should be automated fucking work and none of the troubleshooting steps work and shit like bcdboot doesn't fucking work either so you're left with a system that's stuck in a boot loop and you have to rest the bios over and over again just to get the fucking thing to boot from a cdrom.

Been at this for almost 4 fucking hours now fuck!
We all pay for our sins in different ways. At least it's better getting a hot poker up the ass. Theoretically anyway.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
19,958
2,119
126
Use to be when you wanted to get a new hard drive you just copied all your shit over, unplugged the old one, and presto fucking chango it worked.
whoa, i thought that still worked, but i haven't tried to swap any drives on a UEFI machine yet.

my c: 150GB SSD is running low so i was thinking about replacing with a 1TB soon
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
57,112
7,763
126
www.uovalor.com
Glad it's not just me that hates UEFI. Simple is better. UEFI adds unneeded complexity to the boot process. I miss basic bioses. They were also faster to boot. UEFI is so freaking slow, because it's basically an OS in of itself. Though it seems to depend on the machine. OEM ones seem to be really fast. I think the ONLY advantage I've found of UEFI is that you can update the bios without needing a floppy drive since it's basically running Linux and will detect USB sticks.

I did not realize it caused issues with cloning hard drives too though, that's BS then.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
54,009
4,061
126
Thinking back to work, I did a debian install on one computer, bought another one, moved the hd over, then cloned that cause it was failing. I had zero problems through the whole process.
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
18,762
1,721
126
Use to be when you wanted to get a new hard drive you just copied all your shit over, unplugged the old one, and presto fucking chango it worked.
I mean you can still do that with UEFI. Just make yourself a Matt Dillon and take a break.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
5,922
473
126
What exactly DID we do before UEFI? I remember BIOSs of course. But wasn't there also a fair amount jumpering and unjumpering pins?

If UEFI had been done right (and maybe in the future it will be) AND if the individual settings were better documented, I think it could have made things easier.

But the mindset of the people writing these interfaces was probably still rooted in the impenetrable and cryptic nature of BIOSs. All they really did was add another layer of complexity without getting much of anything in return.

I had one of the first ASUS UEFI boards and I had to ditch the motherboard. The POS was unusable. You would hope things might have gotten a little better since then.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
14,000
3,962
136
What exactly DID we do before UEFI? I remember BIOSs of course. But wasn't there also a fair amount jumpering and unjumpering pins?

If UEFI had been done right (and maybe in the future it will be) AND if the individual settings were better documented, I think it could have made things easier.

But the mindset of the people writing these interfaces was probably still rooted in the impenetrable and cryptic nature of BIOSs. All they really did was add another layer of complexity without getting much of anything in return.

I had one of the first ASUS UEFI boards and I had to ditch the motherboard. The POS was unusable. You would hope things might have gotten a little better since then.
motherboard jumpers had pretty much disappeared about 5 years before UEFI hit the mainstream. Example - MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum. the manual file is dated 2005 on my PC. No jumpers apart from CMOS reset.

According to wikipedia there were capacity limitations of the old-style BIOS so EFI was developed by Intel. The only odd thing about that notion is that BIOS files were getting steadily larger until they ballooned in size when UEFI came along.

The only thing I like about UEFI is being able to update the BIOS via DHCP.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
17,492
1,724
126
I haven't done *tonnes* of system drive clones but I haven't had that kind of catastrophe before. The worst I've had is to repeat the clone operation, job done. Generally speaking it's worked for me (and the vast majority of the systems I work on are OEM so it's always UEFI).

This. I have done hundreds of hard drive replacements and clones on UEFI and BIOS systems and have never had an issue... Maybe I'm just lucky.
 
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VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
49,167
5,441
126
One of the things that is "new" with UEFI, is that boot options on a drive (bootable partitions) have to be "registered" with the UEFI, in order to boot.

Some UEFI BIOSes will let you enter a UEFI path string to a boot EFI loader file.

Others, will actually scan the available file-systems available to it at boot time, and build a dynamic list.

Most though, depend on a UEFI-aware OS installer to do the UEFI bootloader registration.
 

EliteRetard

Diamond Member
Mar 6, 2006
6,372
959
136
I know exactly how this feels, UEFI, BIOS, GPT, MBR, IDE, AHCI, NVME, etc.

Just tried to upgrade one computer with a larger SSD, and was going to put the old SSD in a laptop.
Neither the desktop or laptop could be cloned, and neither one could see more than 1 drive.
All the drives work perfectly fine, alone. No drive combo can be used in either machine.

I even tried an external USB device, and after many hours of work I can finally see two drives.
Then I find out there is no software that can clone any modern drive, certainly not if they are different types.

This is when you literally rip all your hair out and smash the keyboard to dust.
Even after a complete new install, still can't see both drives. It requires a physical disconnect to switch between them.

I've been working on computers a long time, I don't ever recall having so many horrible unsolvable issues as we do now.
I remember the switch from FAT16 to FAT32 at the 2GB limit, onto NTFS etc...nothing anywhere near as hard as it is now.
Heck I was using computers before DOS (which was early 80s), and everything was easy enough to solve without the internet.

Now shit is so convoluted and unreasonably complex it requires internet instructions, and is frequently not even possible.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
67,692
2,812
126
Any issue I find so aggravating these days. Back in the Old days you re-installed Windows every 30 days, because it was necessary. Somewhere around Win98SE/WinXP that stopped being necessary, at least for me. I never had to re-install WinXP64/8/10, but once in awhile things started happening, usually imminent Hardware failure. My most recent aggravation has been Corsairs iCue software, which often starts causing CTDs of various things when it has an Update. Having had systems the last 15ish years that just worked flawlessly 99%+ of the time has rather spoiled me, any little thing just sets me off these days.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
54,009
4,061
126
Windows pisses me off. Seems like they zero in on the worst way to do anything, then run with it. Luckily, I only have to deal with a couple machines at work anymore. Everything I personally run is gnu/linux.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
57,112
7,763
126
www.uovalor.com
Oh man I remember win98 days, yeah at some point I was just reinstalling once a month. I got really good at it, and I had all my drivers, installers etc on my network all organized. Then I learned about the idea of disk images, and then started to do that. Then I just needed to reimage the machine.

I still remember my first time reinstalling Windows, it was such a daunting task, but also very rewarding when I got it done. Seems silly thinking about it now, but computers were "scary" lol.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
100,733
4,196
126
Sounds like PEBKAC.
User error doesn't cause the uefi to lose the USB flash drive with acronis on it between reboots.

Boot 1: load acronis from USB "SoRrY yOu CaN't UsE wD eDiTiOn EvEn ThO yOu HaVe An Sn550"

/me plugs in an sata WD drive

Boot2: uefi loses the goddamn flash drive and can't fucking find it
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,092
3,196
126
Haven't stayed up to date on all the lingo - is UEFI that more recent development where changing even a single thing hardware wise will render you computer unable to boot and then you have to do a complete reformat?
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,315
204
106
I use my computers in a way that does not require me to clone an OS drive to change it out. I typically format at least once a year to clear out crap I no longer use but forgot about and I'm up and running very quickly.

Things I work on / create are always stored on network drive (and backed up regularly), and any decent software stores your settings centrally and are automatically reapplied after re-installing the software.
 

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
7,154
688
126
All I'm saying is that I have never had an issue cloning an existing boot drive or one of its clones. Then again maybe I'm just lucky--but that can't be it.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
100,733
4,196
126
and then it lost USB entirely! not even the keyboard worked!
 

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