UCLA Prof Calls For Mexican Revolt In America

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Oct 30, 2004
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I don't see how you guys can be against minimum wage earning, hard working illegal immigrants. My standard of living is directly influenced, for the better, by these illegal immigrants helping bring prices down with their low cost labor.

FALSE.

You are only looking at front-end costs while completely ignoring the less-visible and less-direct back-end costs.

Your standard of living is, in actuality, probably NOT better than it would be without the illegal aliens (and global labor arbitrage in general--also foreign outsourcing and H-1B and L-1 visas) in various ways. Sure, the costs of some goods and services are less expensive on the front-end and that is visible to you, but have you ever considered the invisible back-end costs?

When we bring in masses of impoverished immigrants (or ship manufacturing to China or import foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas to work often college-education-requiring knowledge-based jobs) we are displacing American labor and putting downward pressure on wages. This creates a host of very expensive problems such as unemployment and underemployment for Americans. Also, we have to pay for the cost of any government welfare, health care, education, housing, and criminal justice costs that the illegals and their children may receive (or impose) over and above whatever pittance they pay in taxes. (Since they don't earn much they cannot possibly pay enough in taxes to cover their consumption of government services.)

What does this mean? It means that mass immigration (and foreign outsourcing and H-1B and L-1 visas) carries with it a horde of invisible back-end expenses that we have to pay for. Do you pay taxes? Your taxes are higher (or at least your tax revenue isn't being spent on other things that might benefit you) because your tax money is going to pay for (1) the cost of any government welfare, health care, education, housing, and criminal justice costs the illegals and their families might consume or impose, and (2) the costs of providing welfare, health care, education, housing, and resultant increased criminal justice costs for poor unemployed and underemployed Americans (those filthy little people who might otherwise work the jobs the illegals do or the ones that were sent to China and India or filled by foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas).

When an American ends up unemployed or underemployed or earning a poverty wage as a result of Global Labor Arbitrage, who do you think pays for it? You do! We all do!

Aside from the taxes we pay to help America's poor (and poor immigrants), there are other back-end costs as well. What about the non-economic social costs of having mass poverty--dysfunctional families and increased crime, etc.? Do you really want to live in a society with a high poverty rate?

Have you noticed that over time, more and more Americans think it is important to go to college and that thus you might have more people competing to do your job and offering to do it for lower wages? Have you ever wondered what kinds of pressures drive people to do that? Almost every aspect of our nation's economy is interconnected to other aspects in some sort of a way. When we sent our jobs to India, China, and Mexico, people flocked to whatever decent employment fields remained, increasing the competition in those fields and driving down wages. You might think that you benefit in the form of higher purchasing power (at least in the short term) but the real beneficiaries of this huge increase in the supply of labor is the wealthy class--the people who own the businesses and the capital. Because the supply of labor increased relative to the demand, the price point, wages, decreased. That is to say, the amount of a worker's contribution to the act of production he receives as income decreases--employers (the wealthy class) can keep a higher percentage of it in the form of profits.

There is another very invisible back-end costs that few Americans recognize. These other back-end costs are Malthusian in nature (ever heard of Thomas Malthus?) By having mass immigration, our nation is engaging in population explosion. Right now the United States is the world's third most populated country (right behind those middle class bastions of India and China--great company to be in, huh?) and if current trends continue our population will explode to 420-450 million people by 2050.

A higher population has several very negative effects--several invisible back-end costs that affect our standard of living and quality of life and even front-end prices for goods and services. I will point out a few of them.

(1) Increased pollution. More people = more pollution and a greater strain on our environment. When we have more people, more people drive automobiles which means that we burn more fossil fuels and create more smog and pump more carbon dioxide into the environment. We also expel more human waste into the environment. We also produce more trash. We also have to burn more coal for electricity which leads to more acid rain.

(2) Higher population density. Are forests, open space, and wilderness areas a value to you? When we have more people we have less of it. What about the price of real estate ("they ain't makin' land no more")? Having more people means a higher demand for real estate which ultimately means we have less land and living space available per person. Do you really want to live like a sardine, crammed into a tiny apartment? Do you want to live like the people do in China?

(3) Increased cost for resources. (Have you noticed that the price of gasoline and other energy resources has increased over the past decade and ever wondered why?) More people means you have more people consuming our nation's limited amount of resources. Energy resources, clean freshwater, clean air, lumber, fish, high quality arable land, etc., only exist in finite, limited quantities. More people means that there will be a higher demand for these resources. When the demand increases relative to the supply of a resource, the cost for that resource must increase. So--you are paying for mass immigration in the form of higher prices for food, energy resources, and other resources you might consume.

So, you see, when we look at this issue holistically, mass immigration is not a benefit to us. Rather, it impoverishes us in numerous ways. It may lower prices for some goods and services a little bit on the front-end but it imposes a horde of invisible back-end costs on us. It's possible that someone who has a secure upper-middle class job or who is wealthy could benefit from it in the short term, but that benefit comes at the expense of the well-being of other Americans and future generations.


If I could kick about 100 million American citizens out of this country, and replace them with a caste of illegal laborers, I would in a heartbeat.
I think the number of violent criminals (those who didn't commit crimes for economic reasons), dedicated bums, and crack baby machines is probably much less than 100 million. It might not be bad idea if we could boot them out of the country, perhaps in exchange for hard-working immigrants, but it would set a dangerous precedent and put everyone's citizenship at risk to some extent.
 
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Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
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Yeah seriously if the ones revolting were Mexican citizens... Mexico would be blasted even farther back then they already are.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
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So if this were to actually happen, what would be the reaction of the Obama administration? Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.
Obama is the 21st century Chamberlain. I think I know exactly what he would do.

The hillbilly's in America however.......................
 

Zedtom

Platinum Member
Nov 23, 2001
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Idle threats at a rally are easily dismissed, but if there ever was a real invasion from within there would be be a swift response from our military forces.

The research facility at Los Alamos in New Mexico is literally ground zero for nuclear weapons technology. If there was ever any kind of organized threat to that facility from Mexico and/or Mexican nationals, all hell would break loose.
 

dammitgibs

Senior member
Jan 31, 2009
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Oct 30, 2004
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http://www.facebook.com/people/Ron-Gochez/2540034#!/profile.php?id=2540034

This is the high school where the speaker, Ron Gochez, works (not a UCLA prof, was just held on the UCLA campus):

http://www.santeefalcons.org/ Phone: (213) 763-1000

A part of me is uncomfortable with contacting the school and asking that a guy be fired for expressing a political viewpoint. I mean, if we take this to extremes, would every one of us run the risk of being fired anytime we publicly expressed a political viewpoint or even submitted a post on a discussion forum? Is that what we want--a loss of freedom of expression through the threat of losing your job?

I heard a story about a guy who runs a political blog completely unrelated to his job and who had people contacting his employer, making trouble for him simply because he expressed a political viewpoint they disagree with. I don't want my employer telling me what I can and cannot say on the Internet when I'm off work unless I'm a public spokesperson for the company.
 
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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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A part of me is uncomfortable with contacting the school and asking that a guy be fired for expressing a political viewpoint. I mean, if we take this to extremes, would every one of us run the risk of being fired anytime we publicly expressed a political viewpoint or even submitted a post on a discussion forum? Is that what we want--a loss of freedom of expression through the threat of losing your job?

I heard a story about a guy who runs a political blog completely unrelated to his job and who had people contacting his employer, making trouble for him simply because he expressed a political viewpoint they disagree with. I don't want my employer telling me what I can and cannot say on the Internet when I'm off work unless I'm a public spokesperson for the company.

He is a governent employee. A public school teacher.

He is publically calling for the overthrow of the very government that employs him AND the very core values this country was founded on.

I'd say that's reason enough for dismisal. I mean, if I worked for Microsoft and spent my off time preaching that Microsoft was shit, wouldn't Microsoft have just cause to fire me?

This guy deserves to be fired.

What's even more outlandish? He's a public school Social Studies teacher. What does that mean to you? Well, your kids are forced to listen to his twisted viewpoint and be graded upon accepting it. In short, your tax dollars are paying him to indoctrinate your kids against your very country and the values it was founded on.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Bottom line, I can't see even the mainstream Liberals supporting what would amount to Hispanic thugs unlawfully killing American citizens. If you can, I pity your world view.

We won't go from where we are now to something that you described, without first going through protests and riots. I see them causing civil disorder to apply mounting pressure to get politicians to make concessions.

I see Left and Right taking sides over the "peaceful" demonstrators who are marching "for human rights". Their opponents will be some evil right-wing bigot racist xenophobes who oppose human rights. Just ask them, that's how they'll describe us.

You see it's not black and white to go from today to an all out civil war. There is a process to get us there from point A to point B. I see a lot of room for gray areas and tough decisions and a divided country that'd love nothing more than hot button issue to take as their own personal crusade.

This professor in the OP is a glimpse into our destination. Of course Dems will distance themselves from it today, but tomorrow they'll be siding with him for human rights. They'll fight for that.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
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We won't go from where we are now to something that you described, without first going through protests and riots. I see them causing civil disorder to apply mounting pressure to get politicians to make concessions.

I see Left and Right taking sides over the "peaceful" demonstrators who are marching "for human rights". Their opponents will be some evil right-wing bigot racist xenophobes who oppose human rights. Just ask them, that's how they'll describe us.

You see it's not black and white to go from today to an all out civil war. There is a process to get us there from point A to point B. I see a lot of room for gray areas and tough decisions and a divided country that'd love nothing more than hot button issue to take as their own personal crusade.

This professor in the OP is a glimpse into our destination. Of course Dems will distance themselves from it today, but tomorrow they'll be siding with him for human rights. They'll fight for that.

Yes, because the sky is clearly falling. :rolleyes:

What the goal of their "rebellion" be? Immigration reform? Good luck accomplishing that with violence. Taking back part of what they see as stolen Mexico? Have fun with the US military. Subverting capitalism? See former, or see them stand on street corners screaming about the evils of the world with the homeless bums. And don't start on subverting it from within the government. Even if the Liberals completely and utterly ruled DC we'd still be Capitalist.

Yes some people will take up immigration as "their cause", this has been true of every political issue since the dawn of time. Doesn't mean it will escalate to a civil war over anything.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
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That's sedition! That's treason! That's a racist tea partier! Oh wait.. a leftwing nut called for a revolution... never mind.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
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Amazing! Why are they here is the first place???

Capitalism is the enemy? It's what brought you here, dumbasses!

Seriously, if the US is so shitty, why not just home where things are so much better???

How fucking stupid can you be???

That's my idea. Make it shitty (for them, anyhow), and they will go home. Hopefully.
 

dammitgibs

Senior member
Jan 31, 2009
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A part of me is uncomfortable with contacting the school and asking that a guy be fired for expressing a political viewpoint. I mean, if we take this to extremes, would every one of us run the risk of being fired anytime we publicly expressed a political viewpoint or even submitted a post on a discussion forum? Is that what we want--a loss of freedom of expression through the threat of losing your job?

I heard a story about a guy who runs a political blog completely unrelated to his job and who had people contacting his employer, making trouble for him simply because he expressed a political viewpoint they disagree with. I don't want my employer telling me what I can and cannot say on the Internet when I'm off work unless I'm a public spokesperson for the company.

Yah I hear you, but I think there's a line to be drawn somewhere. I wouldn't be okay with some KKK clansman who preaches publicly about his views teaching children, or a black separatist, or anyone else. I think this guy has clearly crossed that line of voicing political opinion and spreading hate and bigotry.
 

dammitgibs

Senior member
Jan 31, 2009
477
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I would like to think this is an isolated incident and it doesn't reflect some larger movement but after watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtxXkUfhZLU&feature=related I'm not so sure.

@4:30
"Are you ready to pick up weapons?"
"We're ready. We want to see who wants to go against us. Because they're scared and just talk."

I know this doesn't reflect the views of the immigrant population as a whole but it's important to be aware that there are these kinds of movements and groups of people like this out there.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Of course we could handle this like Chinese and roll in the tanks and open fire with machine guns. Revolution by Mexicans may get ugly.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Yah I hear you, but I think there's a line to be drawn somewhere. I wouldn't be okay with some KKK clansman who preaches publicly about his views teaching children, or a black separatist, or anyone else. I think this guy has clearly crossed that line of voicing political opinion and spreading hate and bigotry.

I see the point you and Amused are making. Should he lose his job as a public school teacher? Probably. I hadn't watched the video but I'm listening to it now and he expressed racism by calling opponents of immigration, "frail racist white people," which is a racist statement in an of itself. If he loses his job I won't feel badly about it.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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Is this guy allowed to say this and get away with it, legally? Is this considered free speech?

Is this a rhetorical question? What part of "free speech" do you not understand? Or are you saying he said something you dont like so he should not be able to say it?
 

Danube

Banned
Dec 10, 2009
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He is a governent employee. A public school teacher.

He is publically calling for the overthrow of the very government that employs him AND the very core values this country was founded on.

I'd say that's reason enough for dismisal. I mean, if I worked for Microsoft and spent my off time preaching that Microsoft was shit, wouldn't Microsoft have just cause to fire me?

This guy deserves to be fired.

What's even more outlandish? He's a public school Social Studies teacher. What does that mean to you? Well, your kids are forced to listen to his twisted viewpoint and be graded upon accepting it. In short, your tax dollars are paying him to indoctrinate your kids against your very country and the values it was founded on.


States also have laws against inciting riots. NY for instance: "under § 240.08 of the N.Y. Penal Law, A person is guilty of inciting to riot when he urges ten or more persons to engage in tumultuous and violent conduct of a kind likely to create public alarm."


 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
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Dude I've been around long enough to know one thing, the fucking government isn't giving any land away, taking it is another story.

Oh yea, beach front property in Texas' new town of Alcapulco? Nice.